RE: TVR's rebirth - can it work? PH Blog
Discussion
ChilliWhizz said:
Reminds me of Alien... looks like there's an Aston or F type trying to emerge/escape out the front of it.. Whoever imagined that up needs a slap and a reality check... in my humble opinion 
Not sure where you're seeing an Aston in that. At the front end I'm making out the F Type esque grille, GranSport esque headlights and a generally SLS shaped proportion. 2p
A few myths to bust.
1) An Aston Martin V8 Vantage is NOT a quiet waftmobile. The AM version of the Jaguar V8 is properly loud and loves to rev. It makes a raw, visceral noise which really carries over a distance. The 4.3 was criticised for a lack of torque, but the 4.7 is a lot of engine for a fairly small chassis.
2) The new TVR will not be a yowling flame-spitting beast. The Coyote is a pretty refined engine, and even if they up the power 10% or thereabouts, it will not turn into a cammy race motor.
3) This 1100kg figure that keeps getting bandied about is BO11OCKS. I would be exceedingly surprised if it comes in much under 1500kg, especially as the Coyote is a bulky, heavy engine. In that respect, they'd have been better off with the LS.
1) An Aston Martin V8 Vantage is NOT a quiet waftmobile. The AM version of the Jaguar V8 is properly loud and loves to rev. It makes a raw, visceral noise which really carries over a distance. The 4.3 was criticised for a lack of torque, but the 4.7 is a lot of engine for a fairly small chassis.
2) The new TVR will not be a yowling flame-spitting beast. The Coyote is a pretty refined engine, and even if they up the power 10% or thereabouts, it will not turn into a cammy race motor.
3) This 1100kg figure that keeps getting bandied about is BO11OCKS. I would be exceedingly surprised if it comes in much under 1500kg, especially as the Coyote is a bulky, heavy engine. In that respect, they'd have been better off with the LS.
RoverP6B said:
A few myths to bust.
1) An Aston Martin V8 Vantage is NOT a quiet waftmobile. The AM version of the Jaguar V8 is properly loud and loves to rev. It makes a raw, visceral noise which really carries over a distance. The 4.3 was criticised for a lack of torque, but the 4.7 is a lot of engine for a fairly small chassis.
2) The new TVR will not be a yowling flame-spitting beast. The Coyote is a pretty refined engine, and even if they up the power 10% or thereabouts, it will not turn into a cammy race motor.
3) This 1100kg figure that keeps getting bandied about is BO11OCKS. I would be exceedingly surprised if it comes in much under 1500kg, especially as the Coyote is a bulky, heavy engine. In that respect, they'd have been better off with the LS.
This 1000bhp ford engine, complete with supercharger is 594lbs, so 270kg. That's a lot left over for the rest using modern materials.1) An Aston Martin V8 Vantage is NOT a quiet waftmobile. The AM version of the Jaguar V8 is properly loud and loves to rev. It makes a raw, visceral noise which really carries over a distance. The 4.3 was criticised for a lack of torque, but the 4.7 is a lot of engine for a fairly small chassis.
2) The new TVR will not be a yowling flame-spitting beast. The Coyote is a pretty refined engine, and even if they up the power 10% or thereabouts, it will not turn into a cammy race motor.
3) This 1100kg figure that keeps getting bandied about is BO11OCKS. I would be exceedingly surprised if it comes in much under 1500kg, especially as the Coyote is a bulky, heavy engine. In that respect, they'd have been better off with the LS.
https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6007-SCJ1...
RoverP6B said:
A few myths to bust.
1) An Aston Martin V8 Vantage is NOT a quiet waftmobile. The AM version of the Jaguar V8 is properly loud and loves to rev. It makes a raw, visceral noise which really carries over a distance. The 4.3 was criticised for a lack of torque, but the 4.7 is a lot of engine for a fairly small chassis.
2) The new TVR will not be a yowling flame-spitting beast. The Coyote is a pretty refined engine, and even if they up the power 10% or thereabouts, it will not turn into a cammy race motor.
3) This 1100kg figure that keeps getting bandied about is BO11OCKS. I would be exceedingly surprised if it comes in much under 1500kg, especially as the Coyote is a bulky, heavy engine. In that respect, they'd have been better off with the LS.
I know you believe what you think, but we all know that you have no actual first-hand experience.1) An Aston Martin V8 Vantage is NOT a quiet waftmobile. The AM version of the Jaguar V8 is properly loud and loves to rev. It makes a raw, visceral noise which really carries over a distance. The 4.3 was criticised for a lack of torque, but the 4.7 is a lot of engine for a fairly small chassis.
2) The new TVR will not be a yowling flame-spitting beast. The Coyote is a pretty refined engine, and even if they up the power 10% or thereabouts, it will not turn into a cammy race motor.
3) This 1100kg figure that keeps getting bandied about is BO11OCKS. I would be exceedingly surprised if it comes in much under 1500kg, especially as the Coyote is a bulky, heavy engine. In that respect, they'd have been better off with the LS.
I know Vantages too. Much sportier than anything you've ever had, granted, but a world away from TVR's character. It's a heavy car. Compact, but heavy. It's a good car, but as with every time you start talking, you really ought to cover a few miles in a later TVR before making statements that cars like a Vantage are more suitable for the people who have placed deposits. Chances are, they already know about the Vantage, and chose the new TVR regardless.
And it's exciting. When they come out, god I hope they are good, certainly all the indications so far are very positive, but the motoring press will go nuts. 'TVR's rebirth, look at what they've done. If only they'd done this before imagine what cars we could have had' type of thing.
The very wave of British Motoring feelgood factor.
Now imagine owning one of those cars as all this is happening and the knockon effect to current owners.
Ok so my glass isn't just half full, it's positively overflowing.
The very wave of British Motoring feelgood factor.
Now imagine owning one of those cars as all this is happening and the knockon effect to current owners.
Ok so my glass isn't just half full, it's positively overflowing.
jamieduff1981 said:
RoverP6B said:
A few myths to bust.
1) An Aston Martin V8 Vantage is NOT a quiet waftmobile. The AM version of the Jaguar V8 is properly loud and loves to rev. It makes a raw, visceral noise which really carries over a distance. The 4.3 was criticised for a lack of torque, but the 4.7 is a lot of engine for a fairly small chassis.
2) The new TVR will not be a yowling flame-spitting beast. The Coyote is a pretty refined engine, and even if they up the power 10% or thereabouts, it will not turn into a cammy race motor.
3) This 1100kg figure that keeps getting bandied about is BO11OCKS. I would be exceedingly surprised if it comes in much under 1500kg, especially as the Coyote is a bulky, heavy engine. In that respect, they'd have been better off with the LS.
I know you believe what you think, but we all know that you have no actual first-hand experience.1) An Aston Martin V8 Vantage is NOT a quiet waftmobile. The AM version of the Jaguar V8 is properly loud and loves to rev. It makes a raw, visceral noise which really carries over a distance. The 4.3 was criticised for a lack of torque, but the 4.7 is a lot of engine for a fairly small chassis.
2) The new TVR will not be a yowling flame-spitting beast. The Coyote is a pretty refined engine, and even if they up the power 10% or thereabouts, it will not turn into a cammy race motor.
3) This 1100kg figure that keeps getting bandied about is BO11OCKS. I would be exceedingly surprised if it comes in much under 1500kg, especially as the Coyote is a bulky, heavy engine. In that respect, they'd have been better off with the LS.
I know Vantages too. Much sportier than anything you've ever had, granted, but a world away from TVR's character. It's a heavy car. Compact, but heavy. It's a good car, but as with every time you start talking, you really ought to cover a few miles in a later TVR before making statements that cars like a Vantage are more suitable for the people who have placed deposits. Chances are, they already know about the Vantage, and chose the new TVR regardless.
RoverP6B said:
3) This 1100kg figure that keeps getting bandied about is BO11OCKS. I would be exceedingly surprised if it comes in much under 1500kg, especially as the Coyote is a bulky, heavy engine. In that respect, they'd have been better off with the LS.
You know that the designer did a V12-powered three-seater that came in at 1127 kg a few years ago, right? 
Granted, it was a bit more expensive but carbon structures have come down well into the five figure cars range already, and that's before iStream...If GM himself says the target weight is <1150 kg, I have no reason at all to assume it is not going to be in that ballpark.
The Aston is a jolly nice car and would be my choice in that segment by a landslide. However, that segment is 'sporting GT' rather than 'out and out sports car'.
There is no comparison between the two, you might find similarities in that both prioritise a feelsome, analogue experience over outright A-B or track performance but drive examples of both back to back and I guarantee you you'll be shellshocked with the rawness and intensity of the TVR in relation to that of the Aston.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Wonder how many £100,000 car buyers in 2016 are looking to be "shellshocked with rawness"?
More like £55- to 85K, and given that AM starts ramping up the intensity at 3x that and having no trouble to sell those cars even if they have been beaten with the ugly stick compared to the base models...It's not like they're looking to sell thousands of them, either.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Wonder how many £100,000 car buyers in 2016 are looking to be "shellshocked with rawness"?
I think there is much hyperbole regarding TVR 'rawness' as almost a manly sales angle. I can't really imagine what there is going to be in a new car that would actually be raw?
It's going to have climate control. There will be ABS and traction, if not airbags. The engine will be run by a far superior ECU so all of that side will be smooth and predictable with almost everything under the bonnet being controlled by it. I doubt that the chap who trims the car will be some minimum wage tard who just slaps his glue brush all over the place either. In reality, today it would be rather difficult to build a TVR of old.
There are two elephants in the room though. In order to sell at sufficient numbers every year going forward there are two things they are going to need. An automatic gearbox and an automatic roof!!!!!!!!
DonkeyApple said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
Wonder how many £100,000 car buyers in 2016 are looking to be "shellshocked with rawness"?
I think there is much hyperbole regarding TVR 'rawness' as almost a manly sales angle. I can't really imagine what there is going to be in a new car that would actually be raw?
It's going to have climate control. There will be ABS and traction, if not airbags. The engine will be run by a far superior ECU so all of that side will be smooth and predictable with almost everything under the bonnet being controlled by it. I doubt that the chap who trims the car will be some minimum wage tard who just slaps his glue brush all over the place either. In reality, today it would be rather difficult to build a TVR of old.
There are two elephants in the room though. In order to sell at sufficient numbers every year going forward there are two things they are going to need. An automatic gearbox and an automatic roof!!!!!!!!
900T-R said:
The Aston is a jolly nice car and would be my choice in that segment by a landslide. However, that segment is 'sporting GT' rather than 'out and out sports car'.
There is no comparison between the two, you might find similarities in that both prioritise a feelsome, analogue experience over outright A-B or track performance but drive examples of both back to back and I guarantee you you'll be shellshocked with the rawness and intensity of the TVR in relation to that of the Aston.
He's right, the Aston is a wonderful sporting GT, but it isn't a sports car like a late Tuscan / Sag / T350. Different cars for different markets.There is no comparison between the two, you might find similarities in that both prioritise a feelsome, analogue experience over outright A-B or track performance but drive examples of both back to back and I guarantee you you'll be shellshocked with the rawness and intensity of the TVR in relation to that of the Aston.
If the new TVR keeps the TVR DNA, it will be a sports car, not a sporting GT. More a budget competitor to the McLaren 540c than an expensive alternative to a used F Type / Vantage, aiming at the upper Lotus market just as TVR have always done IMHO.
jamieduff1981 said:
Based upon all that, I'd agree they shouldn't bother. There are loads of cars like that. If a new TVR is all smooth, comes with an automatic gearbox and doesn't even trouble the occupants' arm muscles with a folding roof, it offers nothing special.
There is a reason why all the others are pretty much identical and just differentiate through lifestyle marketing though. I don't think a business model that relies on the 7 blokes in the UK who want a manual and have £100k to be buying 50 cars a year each is as good as one that allows those 7 blokes to buy one fire-breathing, raw manual while almost everyone else buys the same old car that every other manufacturer makes.
I'm sure that marketing specialists have a particular term for this but I think 'whoring the heritage for sustainable volume' might be it.
DonkeyApple said:
.... There are two elephants in the room though. In order to sell at sufficient numbers every year going forward there are two things they are going to need. An automatic gearbox and an automatic roof!!!!!!!!
Why do you think those are key to selling in any significant volume? I would guess that nearly every potential TVR buyer has another car available so it doesn't need to be a 'one size fits all' everyday car with a push button roof and self-shifting gearbox. The Surveyor said:
DonkeyApple said:
.... There are two elephants in the room though. In order to sell at sufficient numbers every year going forward there are two things they are going to need. An automatic gearbox and an automatic roof!!!!!!!!
Why do you think those are key to selling in any significant volume? I would guess that nearly every potential TVR buyer has another car available so it doesn't need to be a 'one size fits all' everyday car with a push button roof and self-shifting gearbox. The Surveyor said:
DonkeyApple said:
.... There are two elephants in the room though. In order to sell at sufficient numbers every year going forward there are two things they are going to need. An automatic gearbox and an automatic roof!!!!!!!!
Why do you think those are key to selling in any significant volume? I would guess that nearly every potential TVR buyer has another car available so it doesn't need to be a 'one size fits all' everyday car with a push button roof and self-shifting gearbox. I do reckon these cars will be more expensive than many are hoping and I do feel that at these price points to attract more than a few enthusiasts they will have to offer such things as an auto option in due course.
It depends how many cars they need to sell each year really. They have been talking about getting up to 500/annum in the UK. At getting on towards £100k that's a pretty big ask. What we do know about the majority of buyers of this type of car, ie £100k 2 seater road cars is that the majority live in an urban environment and opt for automatic gearboxes. Is TVR going to reverse the global trend of the last decade?
I'd be interested in why they won't ultimately need an auto option as it would certainly be nice to think a premium sports car builder could actually sell in volume without one.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff