Has modern supercar ownership become NAFF and irrelevant?
Discussion
I think this can be summed up succinctly as:
1. Faster doesn't always equal more fun.
2. Modern supercars are often bought by poseurs rather than enthusiasts.
I'd argue that point 2 has always been the case however there are jut more cars and money about than previously. Yesterday's Ferrari is now more akin to a Weissman (or similar low volume producer).
As for point 1, I think we've reached a point where modern fast cars are too sanitised at normal / sane speeds. What I look for is a car which sounds great, makes me feel like I'm doing 100mph when I'm only doing 20 and I can explore the limits on without having to go at speeds beyond my ability to regather them.
Chris Harris did an interesting piece some time ago about a C63 on space savers which, whilst extreme, highlights that sufficient grunt to unstick the car, coupled with modest tyres is often where fun is at (hence the attempts by Toyota and Mazda to capture some of that fun).
Will a 458 be a classic in 30 years time and be revert like a 246? Who knows, however its less likely to be within the abilities of the backyard mechanics who often form the backbone of enthusiast groups.
I personally feel like the mid-90s is approaching the cutoff point for speed vs fun (hence my car choices). Others may feel differently.
All just my 2c.
1. Faster doesn't always equal more fun.
2. Modern supercars are often bought by poseurs rather than enthusiasts.
I'd argue that point 2 has always been the case however there are jut more cars and money about than previously. Yesterday's Ferrari is now more akin to a Weissman (or similar low volume producer).
As for point 1, I think we've reached a point where modern fast cars are too sanitised at normal / sane speeds. What I look for is a car which sounds great, makes me feel like I'm doing 100mph when I'm only doing 20 and I can explore the limits on without having to go at speeds beyond my ability to regather them.
Chris Harris did an interesting piece some time ago about a C63 on space savers which, whilst extreme, highlights that sufficient grunt to unstick the car, coupled with modest tyres is often where fun is at (hence the attempts by Toyota and Mazda to capture some of that fun).
Will a 458 be a classic in 30 years time and be revert like a 246? Who knows, however its less likely to be within the abilities of the backyard mechanics who often form the backbone of enthusiast groups.
I personally feel like the mid-90s is approaching the cutoff point for speed vs fun (hence my car choices). Others may feel differently.
All just my 2c.
When I was younger I always aspired to owning a super car and nearly bought a 355 a few years ago when they were 35k and if they ever come back to that sort of price but the modern stuff leaves me cold. My car with 400bhp is more than enough for the road and feels involving at sane speeds. I had some advanced instruction on Friday in a stripped out clio 172, an e36 M3 and an Atom, each of them were massively fun, I think in the future I'd much rather go for something like this than a modern supercar
Edited by BRR on Tuesday 2nd August 14:10
This started off well but it's getting a bit silly now.
I have met many Supercar owners and I can't think of one who matches the criteria that most posters to thread are convinced every owner is like. Of course there are knobheads driving around and around Harrods and they will draw a huge amount of attention on social media but they are a very small proportion of owners, most I've met are hard working enthusiasts who enjoy their cars.
It's not all about posing, the attention can be very difficult at times although I always try to be civil and open to peoples enquiries. I don't own a blingy watch or wear sunglasses at night (or even in the daytime!) and you'd be surprised at how many owners get involved in charity stuff and the like.
A small bunch of d
heads are really tarnishing a large bunch of car loving people.
If you love Classics or Hot Hatches or American metal or whatever then buy them and enjoy them, I'm not sure why loving Supercars automatically qualifies you as being a posing prat spending daddies money and all this other crap. Bad and good everywhere you know.
I have met many Supercar owners and I can't think of one who matches the criteria that most posters to thread are convinced every owner is like. Of course there are knobheads driving around and around Harrods and they will draw a huge amount of attention on social media but they are a very small proportion of owners, most I've met are hard working enthusiasts who enjoy their cars.
It's not all about posing, the attention can be very difficult at times although I always try to be civil and open to peoples enquiries. I don't own a blingy watch or wear sunglasses at night (or even in the daytime!) and you'd be surprised at how many owners get involved in charity stuff and the like.
A small bunch of d
heads are really tarnishing a large bunch of car loving people.If you love Classics or Hot Hatches or American metal or whatever then buy them and enjoy them, I'm not sure why loving Supercars automatically qualifies you as being a posing prat spending daddies money and all this other crap. Bad and good everywhere you know.
Great thread, some very honest and refreshing views from all sides of the discussion. I can totally understand where some people are coming from with regards to the 'London' comments.
The whole imported wealth thing doing laps of Kensington/Kings road/Sloane street is quite impressive when you first see it, but after a while it does become a little tiresome. I do believe this sentiment and exprience is nowhwere near so commonplace in other UK cities, it is still a rare event to see any Ferrari or similar prowling through Southampton or Portsmouth (the latter is probably not advised).
I agree that Classics should have a growing future for the genuine enthusiast, it's evident that businesses like 4 star classics/Hexagon/ et al, have already cottoned on to this fact and prices are rising. Although there are many stating there must be a boom/bust cycle for classics like other wealth havens, i do believe there is enough genuine interest from Supercar 'Defectors' if you like, to protect these investment prices for a long time. (i may be wrong of course but seems logical).
One other thing that i noticed a few years ago watching the latest Murci/SV/AMG fest from a window in a pub on Sloane Street, i did not see any CLK GTR or Porsche GT one, or Countach....These in my eyes are the pinnacle of an exotic car, why didn't i see any of these?
I guess it shouldn't not about what cars your fabulous wealth can buy to impress the masses, but what piece of rare automotive rolling perfection does you inner child crave, don't buy what you see in the showroom with the longest price tag, buy what was on your bedroom wall when you were 10.
The whole imported wealth thing doing laps of Kensington/Kings road/Sloane street is quite impressive when you first see it, but after a while it does become a little tiresome. I do believe this sentiment and exprience is nowhwere near so commonplace in other UK cities, it is still a rare event to see any Ferrari or similar prowling through Southampton or Portsmouth (the latter is probably not advised).
I agree that Classics should have a growing future for the genuine enthusiast, it's evident that businesses like 4 star classics/Hexagon/ et al, have already cottoned on to this fact and prices are rising. Although there are many stating there must be a boom/bust cycle for classics like other wealth havens, i do believe there is enough genuine interest from Supercar 'Defectors' if you like, to protect these investment prices for a long time. (i may be wrong of course but seems logical).
One other thing that i noticed a few years ago watching the latest Murci/SV/AMG fest from a window in a pub on Sloane Street, i did not see any CLK GTR or Porsche GT one, or Countach....These in my eyes are the pinnacle of an exotic car, why didn't i see any of these?
I guess it shouldn't not about what cars your fabulous wealth can buy to impress the masses, but what piece of rare automotive rolling perfection does you inner child crave, don't buy what you see in the showroom with the longest price tag, buy what was on your bedroom wall when you were 10.
paulmnz said:
What a depressing thread. Perhaps people lack imagination, but despite living in central London, my ownership experience has been entirely positive. been to a couple of 'meets' which were interesting but aren't really my thing, have done some track days and charity days and had some wonderful drives in the UK.
The general public seem to have much more of a sense of wonderment at a supercar than most of the respondents on here who seem to think they are a dime a dozen, naff and tragic.
When out driving, I get asked questions, get thumbs up from drivers and motorbike riders, occasionally asked to rev it and plenty of 'nice car mate' comments. Attention and sharing the experience is part of the ownership proposition, you don't have to seek it, but its part of the package.
I agree you don't need to seek attention by reving the car like a prat - most supercars tend to stand out from the crowd by themselves - but the gold wrapped flame shooting London lambos are a tiny minority in my experience. Most owners I have meet are mad about their cars and look after them like one of their children.
In my case, the real reason I bought the car is to drive it, specifically for European drives - in a couple of weeks I'm doing a 3500 mile trip to Corsica and back via the Italian, French and Swiss alps - the memories I'll have from this trip and ones like it are why I have such a car. for the rest of the year I'll be looking forward to the next trip whist remembering the enjoyment of the previous one. I like to savour the experience, I couldn't use a supercar as a daily-driver.
Hence I don't drive the car that much in the UK, but every time I do it's still an occasion - be it stuck in traffic in central London or a deserted road early in the morning I can't help but smile at the ridiculousness of supercars - they epitomise automotive joy over any sense of practicality and sensible transport. Long may it continue.
The very fact that you have to explain and justify your decision is just, well....You have quite obviously forgotten that you are on Pistonheads, A site that is full of old, scared, insecure people mixed in with a bunch of "i'll just accept my lot, so i'll have an mx5" and "what would the wife think" emasculated weirdo's.The general public seem to have much more of a sense of wonderment at a supercar than most of the respondents on here who seem to think they are a dime a dozen, naff and tragic.
When out driving, I get asked questions, get thumbs up from drivers and motorbike riders, occasionally asked to rev it and plenty of 'nice car mate' comments. Attention and sharing the experience is part of the ownership proposition, you don't have to seek it, but its part of the package.
I agree you don't need to seek attention by reving the car like a prat - most supercars tend to stand out from the crowd by themselves - but the gold wrapped flame shooting London lambos are a tiny minority in my experience. Most owners I have meet are mad about their cars and look after them like one of their children.
In my case, the real reason I bought the car is to drive it, specifically for European drives - in a couple of weeks I'm doing a 3500 mile trip to Corsica and back via the Italian, French and Swiss alps - the memories I'll have from this trip and ones like it are why I have such a car. for the rest of the year I'll be looking forward to the next trip whist remembering the enjoyment of the previous one. I like to savour the experience, I couldn't use a supercar as a daily-driver.
Hence I don't drive the car that much in the UK, but every time I do it's still an occasion - be it stuck in traffic in central London or a deserted road early in the morning I can't help but smile at the ridiculousness of supercars - they epitomise automotive joy over any sense of practicality and sensible transport. Long may it continue.
You have people that have done it, worn the t shirt and have moved on or now cant keep up with the new breed and new scene of younger and more varied owners.
Then you have the people who have never even sat in a supercar and just down to there pure attitude and outlook on life would never ever even be able to generate the opportunity to even own one.
So they try to right it off, by saying its naff. Hipsters. Like when someone who only buys beer tell's you that "champagne" is "naff"
There is a time and a place for everything.
The fact that soooo many on here have physical and mental breakdowns about what others choose to do with there time and money is the very definition of insanity.
You people are in a club of loser's with "crab in a bucket syndrome" the world will keep ticking without you as you moan about it and want to "poke your eye's out with pokers" and "gag into your own mouths" at what one chooses to do with there "own" time, not "yours"
I mean you have to be a real miserable old goat to start a thread like this and you seem to be wanting to spread that misery as far and wide as you can, taking as many with you as possible, hence making you feel better and them showing there ass. lol. I mean whats the true story here eh ?? OP are you just checking that there as many as miserable and down trodden about life as you are despite sounding like you have had a good run. Misery needs company. Bad Form old chap, bad form.
Little England, wow.
ORD said:
They are all autos, for a start, which rules them out to anyone who actually wants to drive rather than pose.
That's very much key for me. Taking the image 'issues' out of the equation for a moment, I stopped lusting after a Ferrari when they stopped making them with those lovely gated shifter manual gearboxes.V10Ace said:
I mean you have to be a real miserable old goat to start a thread like this and you seem to be wanting to spread that misery as far and wide as you can, taking as many with you as possible, hence making you feel better and them showing there ass. lol. I mean whats the true story here eh ?? OP are you just checking that there as many as miserable and down trodden about life as you are despite sounding like you have had a good run. Misery needs company. Bad Form old chap, bad form.
Little England, wow.
I know the OP rather well, and what you say couldn't be further from the truth. Old chap. You also miss the point so spectacularly that I can't work out if you're a troll or merely thick. Little England, wow.
456mgt said:
I know the OP rather well, and what you say couldn't be further from the truth. Old chap. You also miss the point so spectacularly that I can't work out if you're a troll or merely thick.
Like you said, you know the OP. Not Me. If it quacks like a Duck.....I have said what i have said.
456mgt said:
I know the OP rather well, and what you say couldn't be further from the truth. Old chap. You also miss the point so spectacularly that I can't work out if you're a troll or merely thick.
I suspect both !!! Merely as he's posted twice and been a member for 5mins !!Its also the school holidays
The alternative to his points is some of us have been around for a while, 10+ years on pistonheads and have a few supercars but miss real driving ... or we are just getting old !!!
Phib
Edited by phib on Tuesday 2nd August 14:29
456mgt said:
I know the OP rather well, and what you say couldn't be further from the truth. Old chap. You also miss the point so spectacularly that I can't work out if you're a troll or merely thick.
Your profile signature seems to sum up the thoughts of most people on this thread pretty well Kevin.'anything I choose has to be quick, but still fun to drive slowly. If it only comes alive when you're thrashing it, it's no good to me'.
Cactussed said:
I think this can be summed up succinctly as:
1. Faster doesn't always equal more fun.
2. Modern supercars are often bought by poseurs rather than enthusiasts.
I'd argue that point 2 has always been the case however there are jut more cars and money about than previously. Yesterday's Ferrari is now more akin to a Weissman (or similar low volume producer).
Agreed, point two is also helped along by the advent of social media, you couldn't broadcast your wealth/whispering/intentions/ownership or whatever in 1970 as you can now.1. Faster doesn't always equal more fun.
2. Modern supercars are often bought by poseurs rather than enthusiasts.
I'd argue that point 2 has always been the case however there are jut more cars and money about than previously. Yesterday's Ferrari is now more akin to a Weissman (or similar low volume producer).
FN2TypeR said:
Agreed, point two is also helped along by the advent of social media, you couldn't broadcast your wealth/whispering/intentions/ownership or whatever in 1970 as you can now.
Any clown can get pictures of a fast car and wave them about in some heroic soshul meeja profile.The REAL problem is the keyboard "enthusiasts" who talk a big game but never, ever, get anywhere near buying a decent car. Instead we get endless diatribes about "things were so much better in the past" or "only poseurs buy nice cars".
I have had more fun in a daimler dart....140bhp, discs all round, overdrive and skinny tyres than in various other cars I have owned 928, 996, G50 911 turbo etc. You can really feel the car "working", it would still cruise at 80mph on the motorway, has wind up windows and would happily go through a carwash, reversed polarity so I could have a concealed stereo and phone charger.
The problem with modern go faster sports cars is that by the time you are using the top 20% of the performance you are going so fast that you are being anti social.
I'm sure that my generation who started driving in the 70's in underpowered minis or rear wheel drive equally underpowered cars have a better understanding of car control and handling as every journey would be undertaken at the limit, which wasn't that fast today even driving an astra or fiesta flat out would be too fast for most roads,
The problem with modern go faster sports cars is that by the time you are using the top 20% of the performance you are going so fast that you are being anti social.
I'm sure that my generation who started driving in the 70's in underpowered minis or rear wheel drive equally underpowered cars have a better understanding of car control and handling as every journey would be undertaken at the limit, which wasn't that fast today even driving an astra or fiesta flat out would be too fast for most roads,
I completely agree with the OP. I only have direct experience of the performance, rather than seeing them in London (I've worked and lived in central London quite a bit, but not in supercar areas, if that makes sense), but with regard to the performance and how it relates to modern roads, I completely agree.
I've owned and driven a few fast road cars and the faster ones, especially my 2-Eleven, were a) way, way, too fast to enjoy properly on the public road and b) the fast road cars I've owned and driven have mostly been slower than most modern supercars (e.g. my 2-Eleven did 0-100mph in 9 secs and that's much slower than the latest Ferraris and Lambos), so it's fairly obvious to me putting (a) and (b) together that an Aventador, Konigsegg or Pagani is going to be just plain daft on the public road. This is something that some people won't understand until they've tried it, and I know that because that includes me before I bought the 2-Eleven! After owning slower sports cars, I thought the odd burst of acceleration or fast cornering would be possible now and then in the 2-Eleven, but the truth was that it wasn't unless you were also ok with breaking the law by quite a large margin. In addition to that, I'm not sure I ever found a corner well sighted enough where you could drive at a speed where the car started to feel alive - everything just felt like car park speeds would in a normal car.
The natural solution to this is to do track days, but the trouble is that if you're only really enjoying your car on a circuit, then other even more exciting options soon become available, often for less money. Plus, you can do the 6am drive to Silverstone or Spa in your comfortable daily driver, rather than the supercar. For the cost of depreciation, insurance and servicing on a modern fast supercar like an Aventador or 458 Speciale, you could easily buy a much faster dedicated racing car and pay for a team to look after it for you and support you on test days.
So, having experienced many different cars over the years, the sort of road cars that I aspire to own now aren't necessarily the fastest; instead they're the feelsome and interactive like the Elise or Caterham and they're special long distance GT cars like the DB9, V12V, 550, 612 etc.
I've owned and driven a few fast road cars and the faster ones, especially my 2-Eleven, were a) way, way, too fast to enjoy properly on the public road and b) the fast road cars I've owned and driven have mostly been slower than most modern supercars (e.g. my 2-Eleven did 0-100mph in 9 secs and that's much slower than the latest Ferraris and Lambos), so it's fairly obvious to me putting (a) and (b) together that an Aventador, Konigsegg or Pagani is going to be just plain daft on the public road. This is something that some people won't understand until they've tried it, and I know that because that includes me before I bought the 2-Eleven! After owning slower sports cars, I thought the odd burst of acceleration or fast cornering would be possible now and then in the 2-Eleven, but the truth was that it wasn't unless you were also ok with breaking the law by quite a large margin. In addition to that, I'm not sure I ever found a corner well sighted enough where you could drive at a speed where the car started to feel alive - everything just felt like car park speeds would in a normal car.
The natural solution to this is to do track days, but the trouble is that if you're only really enjoying your car on a circuit, then other even more exciting options soon become available, often for less money. Plus, you can do the 6am drive to Silverstone or Spa in your comfortable daily driver, rather than the supercar. For the cost of depreciation, insurance and servicing on a modern fast supercar like an Aventador or 458 Speciale, you could easily buy a much faster dedicated racing car and pay for a team to look after it for you and support you on test days.
So, having experienced many different cars over the years, the sort of road cars that I aspire to own now aren't necessarily the fastest; instead they're the feelsome and interactive like the Elise or Caterham and they're special long distance GT cars like the DB9, V12V, 550, 612 etc.
Edited by RobM77 on Tuesday 2nd August 15:03
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