RE: Lotus Evora 400: even lighter, even dearer
Discussion
Lotuslover669 said:
cool story bro, but I hope you learnt something today and that is not to attack someone and call him high when you dont have all the information or complete picture. now as for the "animosity" , let me explain there are fanboys that are well mannered (jayemm is one) where he can can articulate his issues in a professional way, and then there are some Lotus fanboys that are just rabid, like sharks that bunch up together and gnaw at a person because he dared to criticize THE-HOLY-LOTUS, lately i made it a hobby to confront the rabid types. since i think it is beneath the writer of the article to respond to each one (and they are many).
Could it be possible that you don't quite live to the morals that you preach?I hate the term Fanboy, the equally horrible opposite is normally hater. I think you may be closer to the later camp and I don't think you've articulated your point professionally or even in a civil way, instead you've arrived shouting about pitchforks and all sorts. I don't know all the history but I found it odd.
I'm ambivalent to Harris. He does some good stuff and spouts some dubious stuff as well. I'm certainly not a 'fanboy' but there are a few out there. I'm not a hater either. I have been in a Porsche for the last 6 years so it isn't some brand loyalty or hate that colours my impression of him. His article on nationalism is OK and he should report as he sees fit but of course this is a piece on opinion and not everyone has to like it. Car companies have always made some efforts to manage reporters (as per Chris's article). Of course there are a lot of people who believe Porsche should never be forgiven for the way they handled (or didn't) the bore scoring / distorted cylinders and IMS issues? You see no manufacturer is perfect but press reaction doesn't seem to be consistent.
I have read nothing on this thread that suggests people think Lotus are infallible or "better" than other car makes, I've read people say they are trying to use some of the same tactics but are getting singled out in a very sarcastic article. I've read people saying they like what Lotus do. Why are they not allowed to express this without shouts of "bully" and "pitch forks'?
otolith said:
I'd rather say the opposite, and that the S1 looked a bit girly and the S2 made it look more aggressive and less pretty.
+1With the exception of the S1 Exige which was properly aggressive looking and yet balanced at the same time. The S2 sort of looks a bit frumpy compared to it.
Edited by Havoc856 on Friday 19th August 20:09
Hungrymc said:
Could it be possible that you don't quite live to the morals that you preach?
I hate the term Fanboy, the equally horrible opposite is normally hater. I think you may be closer to the later camp and I don't think you've articulated your point professionally or even in a civil way, instead you've arrived shouting about pitchforks and all sorts. I don't know all the history but I found it odd.
I'm ambivalent to Harris. He does some good stuff and spouts some dubious stuff as well. I'm certainly not a 'fanboy' but there are a few out there. I'm not a hater either. I have been in a Porsche for the last 6 years so it isn't some brand loyalty or hate that colours my impression of him. His article on nationalism is OK and he should report as he sees fit but of course this is a piece on opinion and not everyone has to like it. Car companies have always made some efforts to manage reporters (as per Chris's article). Of course there are a lot of people who believe Porsche should never be forgiven for the way they handled (or didn't) the bore scoring / distorted cylinders and IMS issues? You see no manufacturer is perfect but press reaction doesn't seem to be consistent.
I have read nothing on this thread that suggests people think Lotus are infallible or "better" than other car makes, I've read people say they are trying to use some of the same tactics but are getting singled out in a very sarcastic article. I've read people saying they like what Lotus do. Why are they not allowed to express this without shouts of "bully" and "pitch forks'?
Okay Hungrymc you seem to have a reasonable attitude so i will engage with you reasonably (i reserve the eye-for-an-eye method to the rabid ones who got so used to being on their forums that maybe they forgot that the admin here isnt their friend) now let me break down what you said and answer each individually, maybe in that way i can get my message across clearly.I hate the term Fanboy, the equally horrible opposite is normally hater. I think you may be closer to the later camp and I don't think you've articulated your point professionally or even in a civil way, instead you've arrived shouting about pitchforks and all sorts. I don't know all the history but I found it odd.
I'm ambivalent to Harris. He does some good stuff and spouts some dubious stuff as well. I'm certainly not a 'fanboy' but there are a few out there. I'm not a hater either. I have been in a Porsche for the last 6 years so it isn't some brand loyalty or hate that colours my impression of him. His article on nationalism is OK and he should report as he sees fit but of course this is a piece on opinion and not everyone has to like it. Car companies have always made some efforts to manage reporters (as per Chris's article). Of course there are a lot of people who believe Porsche should never be forgiven for the way they handled (or didn't) the bore scoring / distorted cylinders and IMS issues? You see no manufacturer is perfect but press reaction doesn't seem to be consistent.
I have read nothing on this thread that suggests people think Lotus are infallible or "better" than other car makes, I've read people say they are trying to use some of the same tactics but are getting singled out in a very sarcastic article. I've read people saying they like what Lotus do. Why are they not allowed to express this without shouts of "bully" and "pitch forks'?
1- the argument that "Ferrari, Porsche, Mclaren do it, so should Lotus" is a false premise and let me breakdown why that is the case. First these companies mentioned have a brand name recognizable by consumers regardless of their age, if you take a 20 year old, 40, 60 , 80 and ask them what is a "Ferrari"? 10/10 they would tell you it is a car company or brand, if you ask them what is a "Lotus" you wont get a car company 10/10, some might not have been born when Lotus was winning races (pre-80's), now "relatively" speaking (and please dont split hairs here) Lotus is the New / old kid on the block, if he wants to implement what the "big boys" are doing he should do it on his own merit and not rely on some bygone heritage.
2- for some Lotus fanboys the fact that they are a "small, custom build company" should somehow protect them from a harsh / Raw criticism, that opinions should always be "cushioned" so as not to break any bones in a fall (completely disregarding that they are owned by the largest malaysian car manufacturing company) any such criticisms are dealt with in a "drum beating" fashion where the article or the writer is first posted on their forums, whereby the members of forum gather and then bombard the said posted article with messages of either Bias, or Unprofessionalism, or Trolling, or Grammatical error or spelling errors or any errors to try to paint the article or the writer in a bad light and he is supposed to now spend his time replying that he is not biased, that he is not trolling, that he is professional etc etc (an expansive effort given the fact that it is a carpet bombing strategy so good luck in shooting down each bomb), other than that Nationalism then plays a role, a british author criticising Lotus why doesnt he criticize the italian horses? or the german horse? is he disloyal to his country? (like that is supposed to be an unbiased way of forming an opinion) moving on, the not so "official" forums and the activity it generated then leads to "surprise surprise" lotus taking punitive action by banning the writer from events, or officially handing him a car to review or a combination of both, so the writer has to come on to the article he wrote and say things along the lines of "Im the biggest lotus fan" , or "Lotus has the best driving experience by far" or any sort of face saving line to remain within the "good graces" of the Lotus company / Managment.
so now you tell me, given the above explanation that i wrote what other term should i have used to describe the situation that was happening in the article? was it not fanboyism if so what is it? the multitude of attacks of Bias or unprofesionalism is that not "pitchforks" if not what is it then? as i said I have a history with these Lotus forum fanboys, i know how they react and how they operate and how they disregard any differing opinions or criticisms, but while they can do that on their official forums where they have free reign, they should keep it there and not bring it over to a 3rd party website and expect the same type of "cushioned" treatment. that is all really.
MrDs
andy_s said:
Thanks for that, but can we talk about the car, I think it's fairly off to start a personal campaign on a legitimate thread. You've made a point, most people here aren't interested in personal point scoring spats; just the car. 
yes , no problem. i explained myself as clearly as possible so there isn't much more to say. wont be replying anymore unless personally quoted or attacked.Personally, I think it's an indication of the slightly sad state of the automotive market that any manufacturer feels they can and/or must release blingy tat for thousands of pounds and actually have it sell. Still I'd rather they had this stuff as options than fitted it to all the cars and bumped up the base price.
kambites said:
Personally, I think it's an indication of the slightly sad state of the automotive market that any manufacturer feels they can and/or must release blingy tat for thousands of pounds and actually have it sell. Still I'd rather they had this stuff as options than fitted it to all the cars and bumped up the base price.
how would you feel if the car had a £90,000 (before options) starting price in as it does in some markets?Edited by Lotuslover669 on Friday 19th August 21:03
Lotuslover669 said:
how would you feel if the car had a £90,000 (before options) pound starting price in as it does in some markets?
Well it's a bit of a moot point for me personally because I'd never pay anything like that much for a car anyway. There's too many great cars available for a fraction of the price. I wouldn't be buying the options... thats for sure.. £90,000 is about £60,000 more than i'd ever spend on a car.
Interesting to see whether its inflation, greed or profit margins (over hardware costs) that has driven up the price.
What's the comparative price to a 911 in the market you're speaking of out of interest?
Interesting to see whether its inflation, greed or profit margins (over hardware costs) that has driven up the price.
What's the comparative price to a 911 in the market you're speaking of out of interest?
Edited by Havoc856 on Friday 19th August 21:08
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