Is there such a thing as a desirable diesel?

[Wills2]

In a car unless you put MPG above all else then no, in trucks/boats/tractor etc.. then yes I can see why you'd desire a low reving torque feast but not in a car.

[Shakermaker]

93DW said:

DegsyE39 said:

but your still getting your hands caked in slimey ste at the pumps.

I dont know what you've been putting in your tank chap but it doesnt sound like diesel

that's what the little gloves are for.

[PaulJC84]

I think only for large 4x4s or large saloons really. I think they suit the low down torque.

If I was getting a Discovery/FFRR I would chose the SDV6/TDV8 over a petrol I think.

[Pan Pan Pan]

I am lucky enough to have the use of three cars, one of which is a diesel, but each is very different in what it does, and what they are used for.
The diesel does things the petrol cars cannot get anywhere near, like wise the petrol cars do things the diesel cannot do. I use each depending on what I need at the time. Those who can only have one car have to compromise. Even a powerful petrol car filled to the gunnels with people and their luggage is not going to perform like a performance car. And of course there are minor irritations to consider, known as speed limits, and enforcement cameras etc, so it really doesn't make too much difference what type of fuel is being used over long distances, as vehicles of both fuel type will be travelling at more or less the same speeds, (unless of course there are those for whom national speed limits don't ever apply)

[FIREBIRDC9]

briang9 said:

toon10 said:

Tickle said:

Dave Hedgehog said:

Ahbefive said:

No. Zero desire. Hundreds of petrol cars that I would love but not a single diesel.

This

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[Pan Pan Pan]

93DW said:

DegsyE39 said:

but your still getting your hands caked in slimey ste at the pumps.

I dont know what you've been putting in your tank chap but it doesnt sound like diesel

Whatever he has been doing at the pumps, it sounds like he has been doing it wrong.

[Pan Pan Pan]

FIREBIRDC9 said:

briang9 said:

toon10 said:

Tickle said:

Dave Hedgehog said:

Ahbefive said:

No. Zero desire. Hundreds of petrol cars that I would love but not a single diesel.

This

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Petrol would be the natural choice for those who can only have one car to suit most of the motoring needs.

[RobM77]

Pan Pan Pan said:

FIREBIRDC9 said:

briang9 said:

toon10 said:

Tickle said:

Dave Hedgehog said:

Ahbefive said:

No. Zero desire. Hundreds of petrol cars that I would love but not a single diesel.

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Petrol would be the natural choice for those who can only have one car to suit most of the motoring needs.

The trouble is that it's not this simple. It would be this simple if we were designing a car from scratch, but we're not, we have to shop from what's available.

Take me for example: I don't like FWD, but I need four seats and towing ability, so I'm limited to Mercedes, BMW, Jag, Lexus and a few other single models (e.g. VXR8). I also can't stand automatics. Once you start bringing in other factors, like cost, handling, running costs etc (e.g. the XF and Lexus are only autos, the XE too new to be affordable etc) you get left with a handful of models to choose from in my price range, and it just so happens that for those models, all of which I've driven, the diesel engines are ok, but the petrol engines are awful. So as much as I don't like diesels, I'm far happier in a RWD manual transmission diesel than I would be in a FWD or an auto, both of which are my idea of hell!

[Pan Pan Pan]

RobM77 said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

FIREBIRDC9 said:

briang9 said:

toon10 said:

Tickle said:

Dave Hedgehog said:

Ahbefive said:

No. Zero desire. Hundreds of petrol cars that I would love but not a single diesel.

This

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Petrol would be the natural choice for those who can only have one car to suit most of the motoring needs.

The trouble is that it's not this simple. It would be this simple if we were designing a car from scratch, but we're not, we have to shop from what's available.

Take me for example: I don't like FWD, but I need four seats and towing ability, so I'm limited to Mercedes, BMW, Jag, Lexus and a few other single models (e.g. VXR8). I also can't stand automatics. Once you start bringing in other factors, like cost, handling, running costs etc (e.g. the XF and Lexus are only autos, the XE too new to be affordable etc) you get left with a handful of models to choose from in my price range, and it just so happens that for those models, all of which I've driven, the diesel engines are ok, but the petrol engines are awful. So as much as I don't like diesels, I'm far happier in a RWD manual transmission diesel than I would be in a FWD or an auto, both of which are my idea of hell!

As noted above, I am in the fortunate position of being able to chose from three cars depending on what type of journey I have to make, but agree, also as noted above, where only one, which has to do all things is required compromises have to be made, none of which may give the perfect solution. The only option then is to choose which vehicle type will give the best solution over `most' of the time, and indeed this `may' dictate the use of a diesel, whether one likes it or not.

[Ransoman]

For me personally, Only in a large (proper) 4x4 or a van. Petrol for everything else thankyou.

[RobM77]

Pan Pan Pan said:

RobM77 said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

FIREBIRDC9 said:

briang9 said:

toon10 said:

Tickle said:

Dave Hedgehog said:

Ahbefive said:

No. Zero desire. Hundreds of petrol cars that I would love but not a single diesel.

This

+1

+2

+3

+4

Petrol would be the natural choice for those who can only have one car to suit most of the motoring needs.

The trouble is that it's not this simple. It would be this simple if we were designing a car from scratch, but we're not, we have to shop from what's available.

Take me for example: I don't like FWD, but I need four seats and towing ability, so I'm limited to Mercedes, BMW, Jag, Lexus and a few other single models (e.g. VXR8). I also can't stand automatics. Once you start bringing in other factors, like cost, handling, running costs etc (e.g. the XF and Lexus are only autos, the XE too new to be affordable etc) you get left with a handful of models to choose from in my price range, and it just so happens that for those models, all of which I've driven, the diesel engines are ok, but the petrol engines are awful. So as much as I don't like diesels, I'm far happier in a RWD manual transmission diesel than I would be in a FWD or an auto, both of which are my idea of hell!

As noted above, I am in the fortunate position of being able to chose from three cars depending on what type of journey I have to make, but agree, also as noted above, where only one, which has to do all things is required compromises have to be made, none of which may give the perfect solution. The only option then is to choose which vehicle type will give the best solution over `most' of the time, and indeed this `may' dictate the use of a diesel, whether one likes it or not.

For me, my non engine related car requirements pretty much make a BMW 3 series my best choice, but the petrol models, bar the M3, are hateful laggy things. There are much nicer petrol engines on the market, but the cars don't suit me as well for various reasons.

For me, I don't like diesel, but it's just another ingredient to throw into the mix and there are other things that I find far more important in a car (which end is driven, what gearbox a car has, how it handles etc), which tend to take priority. Modern diesels, especially BMW ones, are of course a lot better than diesels of old.

Edited by RobM77 on Friday 14th October 12:23

[skyrover]

... oh wait you were talking about the fuel?

than no

[C.A.R.]

I drive a diesel for work due to mileage, I think it's probably very rare for anyone doing over 12,000 miles per year to be driving a petrol nowadays.

Desireable petrol cars carry hefty tax premiums - you can blame that on the Gubberment. I once looked forward to the day that we could achieve consistent 50+ mpg in a mainstream petrol car (without losing performance) but I think it's never going to happen. Instead, we'll end up going from petrol > diesel > electric.

Electric will become mainstream and petrol will be frivilous for a couple of decades, limited to performance cars / racing perhaps.

[anonymous-user]

C.A.R. said:

I drive a diesel for work due to mileage, I think it's probably very rare for anyone doing over 12,000 miles per year to be driving a petrol nowadays.

Desireable petrol cars carry hefty tax premiums - you can blame that on the Gubberment. I once looked forward to the day that we could achieve consistent 50+ mpg in a mainstream petrol car (without losing performance) but I think it's never going to happen. Instead, we'll end up going from petrol > diesel > electric.

Electric will become mainstream and petrol will be frivilous for a couple of decades, limited to performance cars / racing perhaps.

What about propane, is that still for forklifts ?

[DoubleD]

All this thread proves is that different people have different opinions. And no persons opinion on this subject is wrong, because it's their opinion.

Well that's my opinion anyway.

Hope that's cleared it all up.

[white_goodman]

RobM77 said:

For me, my non engine related car requirements pretty much make a BMW 3 series my best choice, but the petrol models, bar the M3, are hateful laggy things. There are much nicer petrol engines on the market, but the cars don't suit me as well for various reasons.

For me, I don't like diesel, but it's just another ingredient to throw into the mix and there are other things that I find far more important in a car (which end is driven, what gearbox a car has, how it handles etc), which tend to take priority. Modern diesels, especially BMW ones, are of course a lot better than diesels of old.

Edited by RobM77 on Friday 14th October 12:23

You make a good point. A new 4-pot diesel 3-Series or Jaguar XE is likely a nicer (more desirable?) car than many similarly-sized petrol powered cars. Can you also get a diesel manual C-Class now? Whereas I don't have an issue with your preference for RWD, I'm not sure if it's the be-all-and-end-all on all types of car. Would most hot hatches e.g. Fiesta ST, MINI Cooper S be "better" for being RWD? They certainly wouldn't have the same feel and the new (RWD) Twingo certainly hasn't been highly praised for its handling. Also in smaller cars, practicality can be an issue i.e. compare the Golf and 1-Series in terms or rear and boot space. The 1-Series does OK because it's a BMW and the badge appeals to many but the Golf sells better probably because it's more practical. If I was in the market, with the possible exception of the M135i, I would choose the equivalent Golf over the 1-Series for this reason. However, I accept that on 3-Series sized cars and bigger, RWD (or AWD) is more desirable.

[LuS1fer]

I have had many a hire car, on holiday and always shudder when it's a diesel.
They rattle, they have narrow powerbands, no aural satisfaction at all and I have never once thought "Hmm, I wouldn't mind one of these". the most recent was a seat Ibiza TDI which has no desirability whatsoever. I have preferred petrol Pandas.
Diesel also stinks and is oily when refuelling.

That said, in Fuerteventura, there are many offroad tracks and I am sure that the diesel was far more suited to situations where you think the damn car might get stuck in sand but the grunty torque at very low revs makes extricating the car far easier where a petrol would be spinning the wheels into oblivion. So they make a little sense in a 4x4/faux by faux if you like a little rurality to your driving and I dare say they are better for towing your horse box and caravan.

[RobM77]

white_goodman said:

RobM77 said:

For me, my non engine related car requirements pretty much make a BMW 3 series my best choice, but the petrol models, bar the M3, are hateful laggy things. There are much nicer petrol engines on the market, but the cars don't suit me as well for various reasons.

For me, I don't like diesel, but it's just another ingredient to throw into the mix and there are other things that I find far more important in a car (which end is driven, what gearbox a car has, how it handles etc), which tend to take priority. Modern diesels, especially BMW ones, are of course a lot better than diesels of old.

Edited by RobM77 on Friday 14th October 12:23

You make a good point. A new 4-pot diesel 3-Series or Jaguar XE is likely a nicer (more desirable?) car than many similarly-sized petrol powered cars. Can you also get a diesel manual C-Class now? Whereas I don't have an issue with your preference for RWD, I'm not sure if it's the be-all-and-end-all on all types of car. Would most hot hatches e.g. Fiesta ST, MINI Cooper S be "better" for being RWD? They certainly wouldn't have the same feel and the new (RWD) Twingo certainly hasn't been highly praised for its handling. Also in smaller cars, practicality can be an issue i.e. compare the Golf and 1-Series in terms or rear and boot space. The 1-Series does OK because it's a BMW and the badge appeals to many but the Golf sells better probably because it's more practical. If I was in the market, with the possible exception of the M135i, I would choose the equivalent Golf over the 1-Series for this reason. However, I accept that on 3-Series sized cars and bigger, RWD (or AWD) is more desirable.

Whilst it's true for me that all cars I enjoy are RWD, that logic certainly doesn't reverse (so I don't enjoy all RWD cars - obviously), so if Ford or MINI made their hot hatches RWD, there's no telling whether they'd be better or worse, or even any good. What I can say though is after driving over a hundred different road cars, RWD is for me an absolute must, as is a manual gearbox. Some auto boxes are good (BMW ZF for example) and some FWD cars are superb (I love the ITR and 106 GTi for example), but if I'm limited to one or two cars then sorry, they have to be RWD and manual. The other straight no for me is a car with any sort of electronic delay at the top of the throttle pedal or variable ratio steering (as Porsche fit).

I guess we all have our list of must haves, and for me whilst I prefer petrol to diesel, I'm not that passionate either way, especially if we're talking four pots - the decision is down amongst other nice to haves, and not in my must have list.

[Ahbefive]

But that was not the question.

[trixyD]

Desireable to me?. Nope. To me DERV has always been for heavy goods etc. The fact that there are decent engines in the market on some very nice metal still doesn't make me desire one.

Would I ever drive one? Sure, if I was doing lots of miles week to week. However even if I was doing the miles, I don't think I'd desire one, it would just be the sensible choice.