Would you still buy a diesel now?

[Jag_NE]

SebastienClement said:

I was pondering this at the weekend. I popped by the Volvo dealer in Milton Keynes who had a lovely dark blue XC70 (64 plate) D5, with the light interior - smashing.

It didn’t even occur to me that a car this recent would be subject to the ULEZ zone in 2019 - but it is! The dealer wanted £20k for it.

£20k for a car that wouldn’t allow me to do my job (without being charged extra).

No.

My 2002 petrol Volvo won’t be subject to the charge.

The ULEZ charge is £12.50, which may not be a deal breaker for a lot of people if they check their overall running costs however I think many will not look at the details and run for the hills. At one end of the scale, if you are entering the ULEZ on a daily basis its going to be a no brainer not to buy the diesel or change your vehicle if you already have a pre-Euro6 one. However if you are incurring the charge less frequently, you need to just factor in the impact of the 12.50's into the total running costs. If the diesel option is or can save you a lot on fuel it may make sense just to pay the charge. The other big factor is that because of the headlines there are going to be some "bargains" to be had when buying a diesel car, supply and demand dynamics on petrols and hybrids will be the opposite. I am thinking of buying a large diesel saloon at the end of this year and if the diesel version is thousands cheaper and I am saving 15 quid a week on fuel, it makes clear economic sense. Granted, this economic benefit may be front end if they decide to clamp down on Euro6 and the long term business case may be bleak, in terms of net running costs and residual value of the vehicle.

[Fastdruid]

Jag_NE said:

The ULEZ charge is £12.50, which may not be a deal breaker for a lot of people if they check their overall running costs however I think many will not look at the details and run for the hills. At one end of the scale, if you are entering the ULEZ on a daily basis its going to be a no brainer not to buy the diesel or change your vehicle if you already have a pre-Euro6 one. However if you are incurring the charge less frequently, you need to just factor in the impact of the 12.50's into the total running costs. If the diesel option is or can save you a lot on fuel it may make sense just to pay the charge. The other big factor is that because of the headlines there are going to be some "bargains" to be had when buying a diesel car, supply and demand dynamics on petrols and hybrids will be the opposite. I am thinking of buying a large diesel saloon at the end of this year and if the diesel version is thousands cheaper and I am saving 15 quid a week on fuel, it makes clear economic sense. Granted, this economic benefit may be front end if they decide to clamp down on Euro6 and the long term business case may be bleak, in terms of net running costs and residual value of the vehicle.

Ignoring that I don't do the mileage to need a diesel, don't live near London (so a once in a blue moon ULEZ charge isn't an issue) and hate the way diesels make their power... If I was buying a nearly new car now my concern would be round other cities implementing similar. Equally while buying a new car it *should* be not an issue but it may be. Lets face it there are going to be ~2 year old diesel cars that will have a charge.

I would certainly be wary if planning on keeping a car 5 years and my normal use meant entering any big city.

[anonymous-user]

Don't forget the BIK company car tax is now higher for diesel cars and will be increasing year on year on year. Interesting enough, the only choices I have for a company car are all diesel.

Most people are taking the allowance these days.

[syl]

Are you buying on a PCP - if so, will the GMV insure you against too much depreciation.

A new 3L diesel range rover sport has a better GMV in 3 years time than a new hybrid range rover sport (which costs more). And the GMV is 61% of RRP (before any discount). Diesel seems a fairly safe bet there.

[Fastdruid]

Joey Deacon said:

Don't forget the BIK company car tax is now higher for diesel cars and will be increasing year on year on year. Interesting enough, the only choices I have for a company car are all diesel.

Who can blame people for taking the diesel option when BIK meant driving any kind of petrol as a company car meant an enormous personal tax bill.

Much though I dislike diesels if I was in that situation I'd suck it up and suffer one. It's not like the kind of petrol cars offered as options are particularly scintillating on company cars anyway!

[Jag_NE]

Fastdruid said:

Jag_NE said:

The ULEZ charge is £12.50, which may not be a deal breaker for a lot of people if they check their overall running costs however I think many will not look at the details and run for the hills. At one end of the scale, if you are entering the ULEZ on a daily basis its going to be a no brainer not to buy the diesel or change your vehicle if you already have a pre-Euro6 one. However if you are incurring the charge less frequently, you need to just factor in the impact of the 12.50's into the total running costs. If the diesel option is or can save you a lot on fuel it may make sense just to pay the charge. The other big factor is that because of the headlines there are going to be some "bargains" to be had when buying a diesel car, supply and demand dynamics on petrols and hybrids will be the opposite. I am thinking of buying a large diesel saloon at the end of this year and if the diesel version is thousands cheaper and I am saving 15 quid a week on fuel, it makes clear economic sense. Granted, this economic benefit may be front end if they decide to clamp down on Euro6 and the long term business case may be bleak, in terms of net running costs and residual value of the vehicle.

Ignoring that I don't do the mileage to need a diesel, don't live near London (so a once in a blue moon ULEZ charge isn't an issue) and hate the way diesels make their power... If I was buying a nearly new car now my concern would be round other cities implementing similar. Equally while buying a new car it *should* be not an issue but it may be. Lets face it there are going to be ~2 year old diesel cars that will have a charge.

I would certainly be wary if planning on keeping a car 5 years and my normal use meant entering any big city.

"entering any big city" - but on a regular basis is the interesting bit for me. this is all massively speculative right now but my gut feel is that other cities will be years behind London and even then, if you get ding'd occasionally with a ULEZ type charge, how does this weigh up against the potentially higher purchase price and lower MPG versus the diesel. buying a euro6 diesel just feels like a bit of a punt now, depends how much you like a gamble I guess! I think the high street being in turmoil will work in diesels favour because outside of the major cities, they cant afford to alienate a large chunk of the customer base who have pre-Euro6 diesels. In the north this is probably quite a higher % as I would expect older cars are more common as on average people have less money.

[Fastdruid]

Jag_NE said:

Fastdruid said:

Jag_NE said:

The ULEZ charge is £12.50, which may not be a deal breaker for a lot of people if they check their overall running costs however I think many will not look at the details and run for the hills. At one end of the scale, if you are entering the ULEZ on a daily basis its going to be a no brainer not to buy the diesel or change your vehicle if you already have a pre-Euro6 one. However if you are incurring the charge less frequently, you need to just factor in the impact of the 12.50's into the total running costs. If the diesel option is or can save you a lot on fuel it may make sense just to pay the charge. The other big factor is that because of the headlines there are going to be some "bargains" to be had when buying a diesel car, supply and demand dynamics on petrols and hybrids will be the opposite. I am thinking of buying a large diesel saloon at the end of this year and if the diesel version is thousands cheaper and I am saving 15 quid a week on fuel, it makes clear economic sense. Granted, this economic benefit may be front end if they decide to clamp down on Euro6 and the long term business case may be bleak, in terms of net running costs and residual value of the vehicle.

Ignoring that I don't do the mileage to need a diesel, don't live near London (so a once in a blue moon ULEZ charge isn't an issue) and hate the way diesels make their power... If I was buying a nearly new car now my concern would be round other cities implementing similar. Equally while buying a new car it *should* be not an issue but it may be. Lets face it there are going to be ~2 year old diesel cars that will have a charge.

I would certainly be wary if planning on keeping a car 5 years and my normal use meant entering any big city.

"entering any big city" - but on a regular basis is the interesting bit for me. this is all massively speculative right now but my gut feel is that other cities will be years behind London and even then, if you get ding'd occasionally with a ULEZ type charge, how does this weigh up against the potentially higher purchase price and lower MPG versus the diesel. buying a euro6 diesel just feels like a bit of a punt now, depends how much you like a gamble I guess! I think the high street being in turmoil will work in diesels favour because outside of the major cities, they cant afford to alienate a large chunk of the customer base who have pre-Euro6 diesels. In the north this is probably quite a higher % as I would expect older cars are more common as on average people have less money.

The issue more than anything would be in depreciation, "feels over reals". Rarely do people actually do the maths or consider beyond the higher mpg and lower VED. That it would still work out cheaper and they don't go into cities anyway would pass most by, they'd just see that headline of charging for cities and want to get rid.... no one wants one, value plummets.

[anonymous-user]

Fastdruid said:

Joey Deacon said:

Don't forget the BIK company car tax is now higher for diesel cars and will be increasing year on year on year. Interesting enough, the only choices I have for a company car are all diesel.

Who can blame people for taking the diesel option when BIK meant driving any kind of petrol as a company car meant an enormous personal tax bill.

Much though I dislike diesels if I was in that situation I'd suck it up and suffer one. It's not like the kind of petrol cars offered as options are particularly scintillating on company cars anyway!

And this is the stupid thing, originally the government forced people into getting Diesel company cars due to the tax on petrol cars. They have now basically admitted they were wrong and are now making the BIK tax higher on Diesels than Petrols.

Make your mind up.

[Pica-Pica]

..and now, with polar temperatures continuing to rise, the focus will be back on carbon emissions again.

[swisstoni]

Well, inconveniently, the hole in the ozone layer has only gone and started healing up.
It’s as if scientists don’t actually know how all this stuff works.

[captain_cynic]

swisstoni said:

Well, inconveniently, the hole in the ozone layer has only gone and started healing up.
It’s as if scientists don’t actually know how all this stuff works.

Actually, scientists know pretty well how it works... and it's clear you're not a scientist.

Because if you were, you'd know that the major cause of ozone depletion was Chlorofluorocarbons or CFC's which were primarily used as a refrigerant (commonly called Freon). Because of the Montreal agreement, CFC's have been virtually eliminating from use, the Ozone layer has been able to repair itself.

Completely different topic to carbon and nitrogen oxide emissions.

[RobDickinson]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/feb/2...

Rome does have a problem.. 2024 ...

[Athlon]

Upcoming changes to the MOT are going to hurt badly, cars that can pass now may well fail in the future as we move away from a fixed standar to testing to the level on the vin plate, a 14 plate Insignia that passed the other day would have failed if tested to the plate level. Removed DPF's will fail, cut out DPF's will fail, blanked egr's will fail etc

Edit to add :1. Before starting the test, ascertain the maximum smoke level limit for the vehicle and enter the
required details into the diesel smoke meter. This will be:
a. for vehicles first used before 1 July 2008 not more than the level specified on the
manufacture’s plate, or where no value displayed:
 for a non-turbocharged engine not more than 2.5m-1
 for a turbocharged engine not more than 3.0m-1
b. for vehicles first used on or after 1 July 2008 not more than the level specified on the
manufacture’s plate, or 1.5m-1 where no value displayed
c. for vehicles first used on or after 1 January 2014 not more than the level specified on the
manufacture’s plate, or 0.7m-1 where no value displayed.
l

Edited by Athlon on Wednesday 28th February 21:56

[Pan Pan Pan]

Can anyone here point out which petrol engine cars if any, have a single tank range of between 900 to 1000 miles of mixed driving (town/country/ motorway) before needing to fill up. Range would be one factor which would affect my next choice of vehicle.

[RobDickinson]

I'm interested in how often you drive 14 hours plus without stopping...

[Ron99]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Can anyone here point out which petrol engine cars if any, have a single tank range of between 900 to 1000 miles of mixed driving (town/country/ motorway) before needing to fill up. Range would be one factor which would affect my next choice of vehicle.

Probably none, not even diesels. Realistic range would be more like 500 miles for petrol and 600 for diesel in a medium-large car. Small cars seem to mostly have very small fuel tanks with only 300-400 miles range.

Do you currently have a car that can consistently travel 900-1000 miles of mixed driving on a tank?

[hairyben]

Nickbrapp said:

RobDickinson said:

hairyben said:

Frustrating for me as I really need a new van but want to fit it out and cost it over ~ten years - but no sensible/practical non-diesel vans are really out there. Any number of supercars, hypercars, suvs, luxury sedans and virtue-signalling mobils etc but nothing people who y'know, have an actual unarguable need for a vehicle in a city centre.

How big a van enc200 from nissan and theres some transit sized ones coming soon all ev

Yes the new transit custom will have a hybrid version, and the courier and connect are already avaliable with the 1.0 eco boost engine.

custom still in development and at least a year away,vw transporter same and having range/load issues I hear, Nissan is the biggest available but too small too little payload and silly real world range.

Like I say, responsible car use is is driving a luxury car to new bond street to buy a suit because you're too precious to use the tube, which hopefully will take less time once tfl have priced all the unessecary vans off the road. And your electric, plumbing, parcel and food delivery etc will just work by fking magic.

[irish boy]

Ron99 said:

Probably none, not even diesels. Realistic range would be more like 500 miles for petrol and 600 for diesel in a medium-large car. Small cars seem to mostly have very small fuel tanks with only 300-400 miles range.

Do you currently have a car that can consistently travel 900-1000 miles of mixed driving on a tank?

Can’t tell you exact figures but talking to other guys in work with company cars, the Passat diesel I believe comes very close to 1k miles on a tank.

[croyde]

This thread is a good example of the confusion that the government and their poorly thought out plans bring to the motoring public.

I too, am at that point of thinking about a new car but really have no idea what to get as they keep changing the goal posts.

I have just moved back to London and am just inside Khan's proposed new scheme.

My owned since new in 1998 (That is Green motoring) e36 BMW is not compliant, yet my just sold 2016 Mustang 5.0 V8 was compliant???

Everyone was told to get diesels from the late 80s and now they are being vilified.

Euro 5 to Euro 6 happened quite quickly. A Euro 6 means spending a lot of money but what happens when Euro 7 comes out?

It is totally unfair and horrendously expensive to the motorist. Any change should not be retrospective.

[Welshbeef]

croyde said:

This thread is a good example of the confusion that the government and their poorly thought out plans bring to the motoring public.

I too, am at that point of thinking about a new car but really have no idea what to get as they keep changing the goal posts.

I have just moved back to London and am just inside Khan's proposed new scheme.

My owned since new in 1998 (That is Green motoring) e36 BMW is not compliant, yet my just sold 2016 Mustang 5.0 V8 was compliant???

Everyone was told to get diesels from the late 80s and now they are being vilified.

Euro 5 to Euro 6 happened quite quickly. A Euro 6 means spending a lot of money but what happens when Euro 7 comes out?

It is totally unfair and horrendously expensive to the motorist. Any change should not be retrospective.

Air quality is going to be public consensus
VW diesel gate has really destroyed the diesel illusion
Cities say London adding an extra £10per day congestion charge others will follow.

Reality is EV is the future and we are in transition currently.

Buying used is an easy choice - especially if you don’t really use the car in cities or if such a rare occurance the extra fee is minimal.