Rip off garages alive and well.
Discussion
Slight amusing plot twist from my mechanic adventures today.
I was supposed to be getting the car back today but my mechanics supplier didn't have the parts!! Had I supplied them myself , both his and my life would have been easier.
A positive thing though is that the rear brake discs I ordered have arrived so I will drop them off in the morning and he will fit them for £35.
Total cost of £240 for front suspension arm bushes and rear discs and pads supplied and fitted.
Can't grumble with that
I was supposed to be getting the car back today but my mechanics supplier didn't have the parts!! Had I supplied them myself , both his and my life would have been easier.
A positive thing though is that the rear brake discs I ordered have arrived so I will drop them off in the morning and he will fit them for £35.
Total cost of £240 for front suspension arm bushes and rear discs and pads supplied and fitted.
Can't grumble with that
Shuvi McTupya said:
Emanresu said:
Printing a few fault codes, that’s nice. Can you also print out useful data like live MAF, MAP, long and short term fuel trims across the Rev range at various loads, do relative compression tests and interpret all the data?
I’ve had customers come into the garage and tell me to replace things like crank and cam sensors because their toy OBD reader said a fault code was logged. After offering the service of a proper diagnosis, the customer usually insists on changing the part they diagnosed themselves rather than spend £50-60 on a proper diagnosis. A lot of the time, it has turned out to be something completely different which costs a lot more in the long run including the price of a part that wasn’t faulty but the customer insisted was changed.
Sometimes it’s better just to stand back and let a professional take care of it from start to finish.
As far as I am aware, yes my software can do all of that stuff and even send codes to the ECU and 'activate' parts that need 'activating etc, but no I don't have the technical knowledge to interpret it all, otherwise I wouldn't need a mechanic at all. I would be a mechanic.I’ve had customers come into the garage and tell me to replace things like crank and cam sensors because their toy OBD reader said a fault code was logged. After offering the service of a proper diagnosis, the customer usually insists on changing the part they diagnosed themselves rather than spend £50-60 on a proper diagnosis. A lot of the time, it has turned out to be something completely different which costs a lot more in the long run including the price of a part that wasn’t faulty but the customer insisted was changed.
Sometimes it’s better just to stand back and let a professional take care of it from start to finish.
If i am happy to ask a mechanic to change a specific part at an hourly rate, they should say " Thanks for your custom, but I can't guarantee that this will fix the issue as I haven't diagnosed the problem myself"
Isn't it a bit like asking for decorating quotes but telling them you have already done the prep work.
The decorator should be happy to do the painting at his normal rate, but warn you that it might not look perfect and he isn't going to go back and fix your work for free.
Edited by Shuvi McTupya on Wednesday 15th November 08:45
A proper diagnosis? Plug in laptop... Hit scan... Read error code.Almost every garage I've used before i acquired my diagnostic tool used the same one i now have or a some non specific all car jobbie that gave bare bones minimal info.
I used one suposedly reputable place that replaced my main control module and fked it up so badly i had to sit for hours trying to figure out what they couldn't. And these were so called 'experts' that had VW training. Perhaps i should have charged them £80 quid an hour
IMHO diagnostic fees are one of the biggest rip offs of all. £80 quid plus to plug a car into a laptop. Dick Turpin would blush!
coldel said:
Shuvi McTupya said:
Just how are young people supposed to run a car these days when they earn less, get raped by the insurance companies and cars just aren't designed to be tinkered with at home without specialist equipment so every problem is a trip to the garage which costs them a weeks wages for even the most basic little job!
Its an interesting statement the last paragraph. My view (being over 40 years old) is that young people expect more, too quickly. At 25 I was driving around in a 1.4L Ford Orion which I paid the princely sum of £800 forAn £800 car nowadays will likely have several iterations of computer-controlled equipment and things like airbags and ABS that may require specific diagnostic equipment to investigate and rectify, so even if you have relatives/friends who are reasonable at "doing cars", if they're more old-school, they may not be able to help you.
I've had stuff that I've had to farm out to other people to investigate properly, because even though I know what to check and how, the test kit was prohibitively expensive, and the data to do things the hard way, by checking resistance values etc with a multimeter, simply wasn't available.
Very amusing thread.
Let me start off by saying I'm an auto electrician. We tend to charge about £50 an hour, depending on the job and the customer.
We have about £40k's worth of diagnostic equipment, and another £20k worth of key cutting stuff. I run the workshop with my business partner, employ no-one, both have degrees (several each, and in engineering). We have a further £80k worth of workshop, lifts, trucks, etc etc. So about £140k worth of stuff. Most of that is on a 3 - 5 year depreciation cycle, so we need to earn 30k just to pay the depreciation. Loans and interest payments, accountant fees, etc etc add another 7 -8k business costs. We normally do about £2k worth of training every year
Then we have about £10k worth of technical subscriptions to various information and diagnostic companies.Another £5k of insurances. So we need to earn nearly £50k before we even take a penny out of the business.
If we are exceptionally unfortunate, we'll work 2,000 hours each, but probably only half of those can be charged, so about 2,000 hours chargable.
So we need to charge £30 an hour just to cover our overhead costs. So all of a sudden, charging £50 an hour gives us about £20k before tax. Hardly a fortune is it?
And since you're all asking, we tend not to charge for a code read and a chat, though it depends on the customer.
I wonder how many people not working for themselves would like to have a small fortune in equipment, be responsible for all the day to day running of a small business, with all the costs, worries and time demands, and get paid such a small amount? And people still imply we're all dishonest crooks.
Let me start off by saying I'm an auto electrician. We tend to charge about £50 an hour, depending on the job and the customer.
We have about £40k's worth of diagnostic equipment, and another £20k worth of key cutting stuff. I run the workshop with my business partner, employ no-one, both have degrees (several each, and in engineering). We have a further £80k worth of workshop, lifts, trucks, etc etc. So about £140k worth of stuff. Most of that is on a 3 - 5 year depreciation cycle, so we need to earn 30k just to pay the depreciation. Loans and interest payments, accountant fees, etc etc add another 7 -8k business costs. We normally do about £2k worth of training every year
Then we have about £10k worth of technical subscriptions to various information and diagnostic companies.Another £5k of insurances. So we need to earn nearly £50k before we even take a penny out of the business.
If we are exceptionally unfortunate, we'll work 2,000 hours each, but probably only half of those can be charged, so about 2,000 hours chargable.
So we need to charge £30 an hour just to cover our overhead costs. So all of a sudden, charging £50 an hour gives us about £20k before tax. Hardly a fortune is it?
And since you're all asking, we tend not to charge for a code read and a chat, though it depends on the customer.
I wonder how many people not working for themselves would like to have a small fortune in equipment, be responsible for all the day to day running of a small business, with all the costs, worries and time demands, and get paid such a small amount? And people still imply we're all dishonest crooks.
I charge 40 an hour.
My overheads are just short of 2k a month.
I charge 20 quid for a quick plug in or 40 for a diagnostic with labour looking into it.
That machine cost 4k.
I don't use any cheap parts and I don't like to fit customers supplied parts.
Generally I add 20% to my parts prices rather than mucking around.
I'm flat out busy.
If I spend 10 hours on your car you'll probably pay me 250 labour instead of 400.
I'm probably mugging myself off.
My overheads are just short of 2k a month.
I charge 20 quid for a quick plug in or 40 for a diagnostic with labour looking into it.
That machine cost 4k.
I don't use any cheap parts and I don't like to fit customers supplied parts.
Generally I add 20% to my parts prices rather than mucking around.
I'm flat out busy.
If I spend 10 hours on your car you'll probably pay me 250 labour instead of 400.
I'm probably mugging myself off.
Shuvi McTupya said:
Bearman , why do you do it??
You have an engineering degree, why aren't you just doing engineering or something for a nice safe salary ? It sounds like you would be considerably better off if your figures are accurate, and no stress!
His recurring costs are very high. You have an engineering degree, why aren't you just doing engineering or something for a nice safe salary ? It sounds like you would be considerably better off if your figures are accurate, and no stress!
jamoor said:
I am not a qualified mechanic, I haven't been trained by anyone to be one either.
I do have a fully equipped workshop and do all of my work on my car myself. I can say being a mechanic isn't exactly a skilled job. They do however have overheads that need to be recovered but charging £120ph is scandalous for the work they do. Even £20 is too much
You have to be kidding, by the time the rent and other business overheads were paid they would be below minimum wage just paying their own salary. You and Shuvi McTightfist have ridiculously unrealistic expectations. Id have to be fI do have a fully equipped workshop and do all of my work on my car myself. I can say being a mechanic isn't exactly a skilled job. They do however have overheads that need to be recovered but charging £120ph is scandalous for the work they do. Even £20 is too much
king desperate to take business from someone who thinks they can provide their own diagnostics but dont have the skill or knowledge to actually fix the fault. Customers supplying their own parts is a recipe for wasted time and ranting customers, just not worth the agro. Mr2Mike said:
You have to be kidding, by the time the rent and other business overheads were paid they would be below minimum wage just paying their own salary. You and Shuvi McTightfist have ridiculously unrealistic expectations. Id have to be fking desperate to take business from someone who thinks they can provide their own diagnostics but dont have the skill or knowledge to actually fix the fault. Customers supplying their own parts is a recipe for wasted time and ranting customers, just not worth the agro.
Funny how when a customer wants to save money he is tight fisted but when a business does it..well that just good business! king desperate to take business from someone who thinks they can provide their own diagnostics but dont have the skill or knowledge to actually fix the fault. Customers supplying their own parts is a recipe for wasted time and ranting customers, just not worth the agro. It's not like I am a multi millionaire paying my staff peanuts so I can buy another boat..I can't afford to just heammorage cash and pay people £70 an hour to do things I can do myself!
Shuvi McTupya said:
Jesus, that's worse than I thought! That is not making a fair wage for doing a fair job, that is pretty much fraud
Thanks for the offer, The car that needs a clutch is a 2002 Cooper , it actually only needs a clutch release bearing but it seems prudent to change the clutch at the same time if I am not being charged £300 for a mechanic to walk into a shop and ask for one!
If it's cheap enough it might also be a good idea to change the flywheel ?
I don't want to be in the position of having the guy here and my car in pieces when he suddenly announces that it needs a flywheel too, but he can buy one for another £300 ..
The car does have 120k on it, but the engine seems pretty good, it's noticeably quicker than my mini one with half the miles on it..
can get a clutch kit for about £120 as theres 3 options available Thanks for the offer, The car that needs a clutch is a 2002 Cooper , it actually only needs a clutch release bearing but it seems prudent to change the clutch at the same time if I am not being charged £300 for a mechanic to walk into a shop and ask for one!
If it's cheap enough it might also be a good idea to change the flywheel ?
I don't want to be in the position of having the guy here and my car in pieces when he suddenly announces that it needs a flywheel too, but he can buy one for another £300 ..
The car does have 120k on it, but the engine seems pretty good, it's noticeably quicker than my mini one with half the miles on it..
when doing a quick search on a 02 cooperAl
Shuvi McTupya said:
I can't afford to just heammorage cash and pay people £70 an hour to do things I can do myself!
It depends. If you're paying them to do it, then self-evidently you can't. If the argument is "I could, but I don't have time", then you've already valued your own time at more than that.Shuvi McTupya said:
I totally agree that I would not expect a mechanic to offer a warrantee on parts that I supply!
Thou the parts you supply will be supplied with a warranty so you won't pay twice for the part and can make a labour claim against the part if it fails. Normal the supplier will pay a set hourly feeShuvi McTupya said:
Bearman , why do you do it??
You have an engineering degree, why aren't you just doing engineering or something for a nice safe salary ? It sounds like you would be considerably better off if your figures are accurate, and no stress!
I'm probably unemployable as an engineer now. I hate sitting down,love working with my hands, and love to fix the most difficult problems I can find. No-one seems to want that in an engineer any more. Usually I've been rapidly promoted to manager where my people management skills are simply not good enough for a big organisation that usually spends more time talking about things than doing. My business partner is just as bad, maybe worse. We're great at fixing things, less good at working in a seamless team. (Just think of the heartache it took to find that out).You have an engineering degree, why aren't you just doing engineering or something for a nice safe salary ? It sounds like you would be considerably better off if your figures are accurate, and no stress!
I've also got a family, with 2 young boys. I see them every day, on and off to school. I walk the 100 yds to work, and I can keep an eye on my 'starting to age' parents, so although I don't earn a fortune, my life is pretty good, and my wife is able to work in her medical job to keep the money coming in.
The long term financial commitment sneaks up on you. A subscription here,and a new bit of kit there. A concrete floor somewhere else, and before long, you end up with substantial sums tied up, and a customer base it feels wrong to let down.
One of my boys is looking like he will be a bad scholar, but very good with his hands - there might well be a business there to pass over to him in due course, so that helps a little as well.
Shuvi McTupya said:
southendpier said:
Q: Why are you charging me an hour labour for a engine management light code read?
A: We need time to warm the engine up first.
Jaguar servicing department.
out of interest, how much did they charge for THAT task??A: We need time to warm the engine up first.
Jaguar servicing department.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff