VW Auto hold - advice on freak incident
Discussion
Odd first post.....but the auto hold isnt the b
d parking brake, its an assist when youre driving, not when youre not in the car. You could have killed someone.
Auto hold uses hydraulic pressure, the parking brake rotates the rear calipers out with a motor. Guess which pressure is easier to maintain after you’ve locked it.....
d parking brake, its an assist when youre driving, not when youre not in the car. You could have killed someone.Auto hold uses hydraulic pressure, the parking brake rotates the rear calipers out with a motor. Guess which pressure is easier to maintain after you’ve locked it.....
jarvisd said:
On Monday 20 August 2018, I drove my daughter's VW Golf TDI to collect my granddaughter from nursery school.
As I started the engine, and put the car into reverse, as I was reversing out of their driveway which was on a very slight incline, the car rolled forward.
I looked for the handbrake which was off, and saw the "auto hold" light was on, so I pushed the auto hold button, thinking that may prevent it from rolling. I inadvertently turned “auto hold” off, not knowing what it was. I have never seen an "auto hold" button before.
When I got to my granddaughter's nursery school, I got out, locked the car, and went inside. 5 minutes later, I came out to find that the car had rolled across the nursery school’s parking into another car.
Luckily the damage on both vehicles was minor, but I shudder to think that there may have been a child in the way.
I usually drive an automatic car, and one is unable to take the keys out of an automatic car, without one putting the car in "Park".
Auto Hold is a great feature, but it should be permanently activated, UNLESS one is to tow or push the car, in RARE circumstances.
Therefore the button to deactivate Auto Hold should be hidden (under the dash, or somewhere that Little Jonny, or an ignoramus like me CANNOT switch it off, and cause similar or worse (fatal) accidents in the future.
Auto hold: A safety feature which, in this case backfired, and therefore a RE-DESIGN is strongly recommended.
I hope that my experience may cause VW to redesign this feature, and so prevent future public catastrophes.
RTFM and PICNICAs I started the engine, and put the car into reverse, as I was reversing out of their driveway which was on a very slight incline, the car rolled forward.
I looked for the handbrake which was off, and saw the "auto hold" light was on, so I pushed the auto hold button, thinking that may prevent it from rolling. I inadvertently turned “auto hold” off, not knowing what it was. I have never seen an "auto hold" button before.
When I got to my granddaughter's nursery school, I got out, locked the car, and went inside. 5 minutes later, I came out to find that the car had rolled across the nursery school’s parking into another car.
Luckily the damage on both vehicles was minor, but I shudder to think that there may have been a child in the way.
I usually drive an automatic car, and one is unable to take the keys out of an automatic car, without one putting the car in "Park".
Auto Hold is a great feature, but it should be permanently activated, UNLESS one is to tow or push the car, in RARE circumstances.
Therefore the button to deactivate Auto Hold should be hidden (under the dash, or somewhere that Little Jonny, or an ignoramus like me CANNOT switch it off, and cause similar or worse (fatal) accidents in the future.
Auto hold: A safety feature which, in this case backfired, and therefore a RE-DESIGN is strongly recommended.
I hope that my experience may cause VW to redesign this feature, and so prevent future public catastrophes.
You didn’t check the handbrake was on and the car was in park. Well done you.
MalcolmSmith said:
Odd first post.....but the auto hold isnt the bd parking brake, its an assist when youre driving, not when youre not in the car. You could have killed someone.
.
He/She has already said that - no need to rub it ind parking brake, its an assist when youre driving, not when youre not in the car. You could have killed someone..
Its this confusion again thinking that the auto hold is an auto handbrake that holds the car when its parked
Here's a video showing the difference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVAAtveZcDQ
Auto hold turns on the handbrake automatically
if its not switched on the handbrake has to be applied manually
If you dont realise the auto hold is off and are used to it applying the handbrake itself, youre in trouble
Edited by saaby93 on Thursday 23 August 20:35
hondafanatic said:
RTFM and PICNIC
You didn’t check the handbrake was on and the car was in park. Well done you.
The car was a manual. You didn’t check the handbrake was on and the car was in park. Well done you.
Several issues here, but obviously the person was used to relying on Park holding their car. I generally do that in my own car too, but of course you're not supposed to.
It's stupid of both the person loaning the car, and the poster here, to not check how auto-hold and electric handbrake work before using the car. It's particularly stupid of the driver to just get out of the car without checking the brake was set.
Sheepshanks said:
The car was a manual.
Several issues here, but obviously the person was used to relying on Park holding their car. I generally do that in my own car too, but of course you're not supposed to.
It's stupid of both the person loaning the car, and the poster here, to not check how auto-hold and electric handbrake work before using the car. It's particularly stupid of the driver to just get out of the car without checking the brake was set.
I admit I didn’t pick up where the poster said it was a manual car. Still...Several issues here, but obviously the person was used to relying on Park holding their car. I generally do that in my own car too, but of course you're not supposed to.
It's stupid of both the person loaning the car, and the poster here, to not check how auto-hold and electric handbrake work before using the car. It's particularly stupid of the driver to just get out of the car without checking the brake was set.
saaby93 said:
e/She has already said that - no need to rub it in
Its this confusion again thinking that the auto hold is an auto handbrake that holds the car when its parked
Here's a video showing the difference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVAAtveZcDQ
Auto hold turns on the handbrake automatically
if its not switched on the handbrake has to be applied manually
If you dont realise the auto hold is off and are used to it applying the handbrake itself, youre in trouble
I just watched that video and didn’t understand how the fIts this confusion again thinking that the auto hold is an auto handbrake that holds the car when its parked
Here's a video showing the difference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVAAtveZcDQ
Auto hold turns on the handbrake automatically
if its not switched on the handbrake has to be applied manually
If you dont realise the auto hold is off and are used to it applying the handbrake itself, youre in trouble
Edited by saaby93 on Thursday 23 August 20:35
k it all works. I’m normal.CoolHands said:
saaby93 said:
e/She has already said that - no need to rub it in
Its this confusion again thinking that the auto hold is an auto handbrake that holds the car when its parked
Here's a video showing the difference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVAAtveZcDQ
Auto hold turns on the handbrake automatically
if its not switched on the handbrake has to be applied manually
If you dont realise the auto hold is off and are used to it applying the handbrake itself, youre in trouble
I just watched that video and didn’t understand how the fIts this confusion again thinking that the auto hold is an auto handbrake that holds the car when its parked
Here's a video showing the difference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVAAtveZcDQ
Auto hold turns on the handbrake automatically
if its not switched on the handbrake has to be applied manually
If you dont realise the auto hold is off and are used to it applying the handbrake itself, youre in trouble
k it all works. I’m normal.Remind me what exactly was wrong with one of those handle things with a piece of wire going to the back of the car?
ETA ah yes I see from the video
A piece of wire would only operate the two rear brakes
The electronic parking gizmo operates the brakes through the ABS, so it's much safer
Edited by saaby93 on Thursday 23 August 22:26
saaby93 said:
CoolHands said:
saaby93 said:
e/She has already said that - no need to rub it in
Its this confusion again thinking that the auto hold is an auto handbrake that holds the car when its parked
Here's a video showing the difference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVAAtveZcDQ
Auto hold turns on the handbrake automatically
if its not switched on the handbrake has to be applied manually
If you dont realise the auto hold is off and are used to it applying the handbrake itself, youre in trouble
I just watched that video and didn’t understand how the fIts this confusion again thinking that the auto hold is an auto handbrake that holds the car when its parked
Here's a video showing the difference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVAAtveZcDQ
Auto hold turns on the handbrake automatically
if its not switched on the handbrake has to be applied manually
If you dont realise the auto hold is off and are used to it applying the handbrake itself, youre in trouble
k it all works. I’m normal.Remind me what exactly was wrong with one of those handle things with a piece of wire going to the back of the car?
ETA ah yes I see from the video
A piece of wire would only operate the two rear brakes
The electronic parking gizmo operates the brakes through the ABS, so it's much safer
Edited by saaby93 on Thursday 23 August 22:26
The EPB should automatically operate when the drivers door is opened, and auto hold is active.
If auto hold isn't active, then one must apply the EPB manually.
A bit like a lever that you pull up.
Alucidnation said:
That video is not exactly difficult to understand.
The EPB should automatically operate when the drivers door is opened, and auto hold is active.
If auto hold isn't active, then one must apply the EPB manually.
A bit like a lever that you pull up.
Trouble is, it's not that obvious when the auto hold is accidentally turned off - hence this threadThe EPB should automatically operate when the drivers door is opened, and auto hold is active.
If auto hold isn't active, then one must apply the EPB manually.
A bit like a lever that you pull up.
If it needs a video to explain how to use a parking brake.......
saaby93 said:
Alucidnation said:
That video is not exactly difficult to understand.
The EPB should automatically operate when the drivers door is opened, and auto hold is active.
If auto hold isn't active, then one must apply the EPB manually.
A bit like a lever that you pull up.
Trouble is, it's not that obvious when the auto hold is accidentally turned off - hence this threadThe EPB should automatically operate when the drivers door is opened, and auto hold is active.
If auto hold isn't active, then one must apply the EPB manually.
A bit like a lever that you pull up.
If it needs a video to explain how to use a parking brake.......
Alucidnation said:
saaby93 said:
Alucidnation said:
That video is not exactly difficult to understand.
The EPB should automatically operate when the drivers door is opened, and auto hold is active.
If auto hold isn't active, then one must apply the EPB manually.
A bit like a lever that you pull up.
Trouble is, it's not that obvious when the auto hold is accidentally turned off - hence this threadThe EPB should automatically operate when the drivers door is opened, and auto hold is active.
If auto hold isn't active, then one must apply the EPB manually.
A bit like a lever that you pull up.
If it needs a video to explain how to use a parking brake.......
It's applied automatically, if it hasnt been turned off with that little button
saaby93 said:
ETA ah yes I see from the video
A piece of wire would only operate the two rear brakes
The electronic parking gizmo operates the brakes through the ABS, so it's much safer
The electronic parking brake only operates on all four wheels if the lever is pulled when the car is moving. Normally it works by motors applying the rear brakes like a conventional handbrake (except it applies it very hard).A piece of wire would only operate the two rear brakes
The electronic parking gizmo operates the brakes through the ABS, so it's much safer
Auto-hold holds all four brakes on via the ABS when the car is stopped.
Wife's Tiguan has both but it's a DSG so they seem redundant and we don't use them, apart from manually applying the EPB when it seems necessary. I honestly have no idea if EPB works automatically if auto-hold is off - I think it releases if you drive off, and then reapplies itself when the engine is turned off, but I'm not sure.
It's the uncertainty around it that stops us using it - you either have to leave the systems to do their own thing in full auto, or take ownership yourself.
Sheepshanks said:
The electronic parking brake only operates on all four wheels if the lever is pulled when the car is moving. Normally it works by motors applying the rear brakes like a conventional handbrake (except it applies it very hard).
Auto-hold holds all four brakes on via the ABS when the car is stopped.
Wife's Tiguan has both but it's a DSG so they seem redundant and we don't use them, apart from manually applying the EPB when it seems necessary. I honestly have no idea if EPB works automatically if auto-hold is off - I think it releases if you drive off, and then reapplies itself when the engine is turned off, but I'm not sure.
.
According to that video - if I understand it! - the auto hold operates when you pull up to a stop (i.e. using hydraulics) and have taken feet off all the pedals waiting for you to move off again.Auto-hold holds all four brakes on via the ABS when the car is stopped.
Wife's Tiguan has both but it's a DSG so they seem redundant and we don't use them, apart from manually applying the EPB when it seems necessary. I honestly have no idea if EPB works automatically if auto-hold is off - I think it releases if you drive off, and then reapplies itself when the engine is turned off, but I'm not sure.
.
At some point, probably when you switch off the car, it applies the electric parking brake to take over.
All automatic , nothing to worry about
(unless that switch has been pressed)
Alucidnation said:
That video is not exactly difficult to understand.
The EPB should automatically operate when the drivers door is opened, and auto hold is active.
If auto hold isn't active, then one must apply the EPB manually.
A bit like a lever that you pull up.
Wait, there have been several posts urging people to stop confusing Auto hold with EPB , explaining that they are for different applications using separate braking systems, but now you say the EPB is affected by the button that enables auto hold? So not not really separate systems...The EPB should automatically operate when the drivers door is opened, and auto hold is active.
If auto hold isn't active, then one must apply the EPB manually.
A bit like a lever that you pull up.
More pointless complexity and unecessary confusion by VW. However all this useless and unreliable technology can be backed up simply by leaving a car in gear or in park, why don't people do this without a second thought when leaving the car?
Edited by Mr2Mike on Friday 24th August 06:48
The car has an electronic park brake, which you turn on and off via a button instead of a handle.
when activated it shows a red light on the dash (same as on every car I’ve ever driven) plus a light is illuminated in the park brake button itself. There’s also a distinctive whirring noise you get used to hearing.
You do have to check for at least one of these when parking the car.
Auto hold will automatically apply the Park brake when you stop and turn off the ignition, but some situations (door open etc) may stop this happening, so always check!
There aren’t reports of Golfs, Tiguans Passats etc all running down hills left right and centre, so I suppose it works fine for most?
when activated it shows a red light on the dash (same as on every car I’ve ever driven) plus a light is illuminated in the park brake button itself. There’s also a distinctive whirring noise you get used to hearing.
You do have to check for at least one of these when parking the car.
Auto hold will automatically apply the Park brake when you stop and turn off the ignition, but some situations (door open etc) may stop this happening, so always check!
There aren’t reports of Golfs, Tiguans Passats etc all running down hills left right and centre, so I suppose it works fine for most?
SMB said:
Most people seem to be focusing on blaming the electrical part of the system and missing the point that all disc based handbrakes have a fundamental weakness compared to drum brakes.
Drum brakes pull the shoes onto the drums as the car attempts to roll and stops movement. A disc based system pinches the disc and friction stops the car rolling. The forces need d in this pinching mode are significant to stop movement . If the discs are hot when you stop, and the handbrake is applied then a car may appear stable until the discs cool slightly, the discs contract and the friction pinching the discs reduces, if it reduces below the force of gravity on the car it will roll away. Hence why cars can be parked and left before they move.
EPB systems apply the pinch on the discs, and as a driver you do not know what amount force is applied, an old fashioned handbrake could apply more force if pulled on harder. On this basis how can you ever be sure enough force is applied to hot discs and pads to hold a car once you walk away? It's poor practice not to leave the car in gear or in park for this reason when driving a car with discs all round.
I've read somewhere that the EPB system applies more force to the pads than Charles Atlas could with a handbrake. I've never had a problem with the brakes on a Passat disengaging for this reason - I also used to have an Alfa 156 which supposedly had the same problems (with a manual handbrake) but that never happened either, although my wife claims I pull the handbrake on far too much anyway.Drum brakes pull the shoes onto the drums as the car attempts to roll and stops movement. A disc based system pinches the disc and friction stops the car rolling. The forces need d in this pinching mode are significant to stop movement . If the discs are hot when you stop, and the handbrake is applied then a car may appear stable until the discs cool slightly, the discs contract and the friction pinching the discs reduces, if it reduces below the force of gravity on the car it will roll away. Hence why cars can be parked and left before they move.
EPB systems apply the pinch on the discs, and as a driver you do not know what amount force is applied, an old fashioned handbrake could apply more force if pulled on harder. On this basis how can you ever be sure enough force is applied to hot discs and pads to hold a car once you walk away? It's poor practice not to leave the car in gear or in park for this reason when driving a car with discs all round.
What I do notice on the Passat is that sometimes the EPB doesn't kick in when I roll to a gentle stop, and I need an extra prod to the brake pedal to make it engage. I was fuelling up the other day and suddenly realised the car was slowly rolling forward.
Mine likes to keep me on my toes every now and then. For example, stopping at traffic lights the engine cuts out and the green light comes on to confirm it's stopped and held etc. However, sometimes randomly the engine will restart and the car will creep forward....I have to be pretty quick on the brakes in heavy traffic! Maybe I should get it checked out...
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