RE: Tesla Model Y released

[Ares]

MDL111 said:

My driving last week
Thursday 600 km at Autobahn speeds
Friday 600 km at Autobahn speeds
Saturday 150 km at Autobahn speeds
Sunday 930 km
Then a little town driving for 2 days living in a French city where there were no charging points
Thursday 930 km

Is a 3000km per week normal for you? Or any normal human being??

How many people's average mileage is over 150,000km? For they are outside of the EV target customer profile. The other 99.99999% of the car buying population will have to suffice

[herebebeasties]

MDL111 said:

I said I like EVs and said I would like to buy one, but they don’t work for me and some others at the moment - I did give an example and do not appreciate being called a cretin for commenting. Last time I checked you don’t have to own one to comment on here. Also don’t see what was vehement about it

I also never said idiotic or anything of the ilk

The point I guess I was badly making is that no one feels the need to comment on stories about mid engine two seater supercars, "But I can't fit my kids in the back", so why are you bothering to post range issues in stories about EVs?

Everyone here knows already, in much the same way they know they're not fitting two teenagers in the back of a 488. What are you hoping to achieve by bleating on about it? It's as irrelevant to the current target market for these vehicles as observations about lack of space for a wardrobe in mid-engined supercars.

You might as well say, "This is a blue car. I don't like blue cars and I know a lot of other people who don't." So what?

(And sorry to everyone else for further lowering the signal to noise ratio in here by complaining about people who do this.)

[Robert-nszl1]

I'm not anti electric cars, but I look at this and think it's just so bland. And from what I understand (from posters on here that actually own Teslas) it won't be particularly well built. I was in Berlin recently and the Audi E-tron was just being launched, and while it was conventional looking, it looks way better than this. Someone said earlier that few were buying second Teslas. Feels to me like the debate should move on from ICE vs electric, and actually start judging these as cars. Whether this gets built any time soon also makes much of the debate pretty irrelevant.

[RobDickinson]

Robert-nszl1 said:

I'm not anti electric cars, but I look at this and think it's just so bland. And from what I understand (from posters on here that actually own Teslas) it won't be particularly well built. I was in Berlin recently and the Audi E-tron was just being launched, and while it was conventional looking, it looks way better than this. Someone said earlier that few were buying second Teslas. Feels to me like the debate should move on from ICE vs electric, and actually start judging these as cars. Whether this gets built any time soon also makes much of the debate pretty irrelevant.

I know plenty of people who have multiple Teslas.

They though on the whole are not made quite as well as audi but..

Etron, $74,800, range 248, 2.6 miles per kWh, 0-60 5.5s,140 mph, 150kw charging

iPace, $69500, range 234, 2.6 miles per kWh, 0-60 4.5s,124mph, 100kw charging

Model Y,$60,000, range 280, 3.73 miles per kWh,0-60 3.5s,150mph, 250kw charging.

Teslas have a fair advantage over the competition.

Compare against a Porsche macan turbo comp etc too... $90,000 4.1s 0-60 etc

[Robert-nszl1]

RobDickinson said:

I know plenty of people who have multiple Teslas.

They though on the whole are not made quite as well as audi but..

Etron, $74,800, range 248, 2.6 miles per kWh, 0-60 5.5s,140 mph, 150kw charging

iPace, $69500, range 234, 2.6 miles per kWh, 0-60 4.5s,124mph, 100kw charging

Model Y,$60,000, range 280, 3.73 miles per kWh,0-60 3.5s,150mph, 250kw charging.

Teslas have a fair advantage over the competition.

Compare against a Porsche macan turbo comp etc too... $90,000 4.1s 0-60 etc

Except the model Y can't be bought yet, whereas the others can. By the time it's for sale the game will have moved on everywhere. It would certainly appear Tesla battery tech is industry leading, but most of the range is very expensive. At the moment people are only moving tentatively towards all electric (in most parts of the world), and this period of transition is allowing the conventional manufacturers to slowly move their customers over. As Lotus (for example) have found, performance alone won't win you the market, quality also matters.

You say you know people with multiple Teslas. Maybe, but I've certainly picked up that people that have owned them aren't making repeat purchases. Maybe you work for Tesla (you seem to have an obsessive regard for their cars) ..... Either way my sense is that Tesla will face rather more competition beyond the US, and if it can't improve quality, then they will struggle to persuade people to move over to their brand.

[RobDickinson]

Etron is in customer hands yet? Not sure about that.

Ipace is very limited in production too with 6-12 month order waits.

2021 should be interesting though there will be a fair few options then.

[Robert-nszl1]

RobDickinson said:

Etron is in customer hands yet? Not sure about that.

Ipace is very limited in production too with 6-12 month order waits.

2021 should be interesting though there will be a fair few options then.

I believe so in Germany

[Beati Dogu]

It doesn't look any different to the model 3 really. That's not a bad thing, I think the S & 3 look great.

I assume it's just a slightly jacked-up model 3, like say a Golf/Golf Plus or Fiesta/Fiesta Active ?

[Robert-nszl1]

Beati Dogu said:

It doesn't look any different to the model 3 really. That's not a bad thing, I think the S & 3 look great.

I assume it's just a slightly jacked-up model 3, like say a Golf/Golf Plus or Fiesta/Fiesta Active ?

I hope it's better than a Fiesta Active given it costs $60k, which I assume will translate to £60k in the UK!

[rodericb]

RobDickinson said:

Jon_S_Rally said:

What might help them is if they drop all this sub-5 second 0-60 business to impress people. Make a Golf-sized EV that does 0-60 in 8-10 seconds, looks like a normal car, is built as well as a normal car, can do 5-600 miles between charges. and is priced like a normal car. That's the EV the general market actually needs, not something with "ludicrous" mode for children in adult bodies that have money to burn.

Thats not how EVs work.

To get range you need an efficient car with a large battery. A large battery can give you range and a lot of power, electric motors are small light and relatively cheap so why not put in motors that can go fast, theres little point in not doing it.

Range means a large battery which means cost and weight for now, but we are still only on the 3rd gen of tesla cars and it has 300 miles of range, charges at 250kwh and weighs (for a 3) around 1850kg so about 200 more than the equivalence ice, all of this will only improve over time.

I'm sure once the Pickup truck is done tesla will look to move into smaller hatchbacks etc but it is a long way down the road for them.

There is the matter of the upgraded bits outside of the motor and batteries which costs money.

Anyway, Tesla and the rest of the automotive industry are approaching the same problem with opposed levels of IP and process maturity - Tesla has the IP in technology but not the business maturity and the rest of the industry knows how to build a car but lacks the IP in the EV technology. Tesla can produce their 'headliner' cars which gets their name out there and that market has good (but risky) margins which helps to fund their maturity. How do you reduce risky margins? Market the hell out of the product. Mainstream manufacturers don't really have that type of luxury - they've got brand baggage, ingrained processes, expectations and culture. Personally, I can't see Tesla going broke and disappearing. They'll mature as an automotive manufacturer whilst the existing automotive industry mature as electronics and technology manufacturers.

Edited by rodericb on Sunday 17th March 01:16

[st4]

Ares said:

In the real world it isn't though. 5mins in an ICE gets you 300-500 miles.....but your 5 mins in stood in the cold in a smelly petrol station before you then drive away, park elsewhere to have a piss - totally time 15-20mins.


With an EV, you park, plug in and your 5 mins is spent having the same piss, and the additional 10-15 mins persuading your kids that they don't need another magazine/buying food/getting a drink/perving at the hen party/etc adds another 150 miles.

Add in that of the minute number of people that regularly drive 300+ miles, few do it without at least one 20-30min break.

The EV might not be the optimum only car for a family, but as a second car, or prime car supplemented by a 2nd ICE the time is now, and getting ever more valid.

Good point well made.

[anonymous-user]

More Tesla Fan Boism from Rob Dickinson. How very fking predictable.

[RobDickinson]

had ham said:

More Tesla Fan Boism from Rob Dickinson.

Your welcome! Just providing some balance.

[anonymous-user]

It's 'you're'.

And 'balance' from you?

[Talksteer]

Ares said:

st4 said:

04helipilot said:

V3 supercharging rolling out now with charge rates of up to 75mile in 5 minutes

This is off the pace compared to a normal car but not so off the pace to rule one out. I reckon in another 10yrs with more chargers these cars could be viable for most British motorists .

In the real world it isn't though. 5mins in an ICE gets you 300-500 miles.....but your 5 mins in stood in the cold in a smelly petrol station before you then drive away, park elsewhere to have a piss - totally time 15-20mins.


With an EV, you park, plug in and your 5 mins is spent having the same piss, and the additional 10-15 mins persuading your kids that they don't need another magazine/buying food/getting a drink/perving at the hen party/etc adds another 150 miles.

Add in that of the minute number of people that regularly drive 300+ miles, few do it without at least one 20-30min break.

The EV might not be the optimum only car for a family, but as a second car, or prime car supplemented by a 2nd ICE the time is now, and getting ever more valid.

I'd argue that for 80% of people who have a house with a drive a Tesla is already less hassle than a petrol car.

For the average owner the routine is pull car onto drive, plug in car, never worry about making a trip to refuel before going anywhere never mess around fuelling and paying for fuel.

Unless you live in Central Wales or Northern Scotland there is a supercharger on any long distance route you would take and the density is increasing in line with vehicle sales.

Put in some routes and halve the charging times with Supercharger V3

https://www.tesla.com/trips#/

[humphra]

04helipilot said:

humphra said:

Jon_S_Rally said:

.....when is someone going to admit that massive, distracting touchscreens in cars are utterly idiotic. Sooner or later, there's going to be a massive crash and it will turn out the driver who caused it was trying to change the temperature in the car, or find a good radio station, but had to take his/her eyes off the road to look at the screen. A screen in a car has its uses, but making it control most of the major functions is mental. The great thing about a good old fashioned knob is that you can operate it by touch alone, rather than having to look to see where exactly you're touching it. Until cars have fully autonomous capability, big screens remain a bad idea.

I've been wondering this myself. Mobile phones aren't allowed took be used, as they distract the driver from the road. Yet in built touchscreen systems are perfectly ok? I too have been wondering and waiting for that seismic event when all of a sudden they'll be banned......

You can control most things on the steering wheel/dash pod.

You can also use voice commands on your phone. Doesn't mean everyone does, or that user of the phone while driving is legal.

[greggy50]

The Polestar 2 looks a lot better car for similar money.

With the BIK on electric cars being 2% next year I can see electric cars becoming very popular. Where I work they are being pushed heavily and I can see myself being tempted to opt back in when the Polestar comes out.

The Tesla's are nice cars but the interior quality just lets them down. I tried a S and it felt worse than a 3 series in terms on interior build quality.

[RobDickinson]

Polestar 2 looks decent but more a model 3 competitor, assume they'll make an xc40/60 ev at some point

[AshD]

Robert-nszl1 said:

RobDickinson said:

I know plenty of people who have multiple Teslas.

They though on the whole are not made quite as well as audi but..

Etron, $74,800, range 248, 2.6 miles per kWh, 0-60 5.5s,140 mph, 150kw charging

iPace, $69500, range 234, 2.6 miles per kWh, 0-60 4.5s,124mph, 100kw charging

Model Y,$60,000, range 280, 3.73 miles per kWh,0-60 3.5s,150mph, 250kw charging.

Teslas have a fair advantage over the competition.

Compare against a Porsche macan turbo comp etc too... $90,000 4.1s 0-60 etc

Except the model Y can't be bought yet, whereas the others can. By the time it's for sale the game will have moved on everywhere. It would certainly appear Tesla battery tech is industry leading, but most of the range is very expensive. At the moment people are only moving tentatively towards all electric (in most parts of the world), and this period of transition is allowing the conventional manufacturers to slowly move their customers over. As Lotus (for example) have found, performance alone won't win you the market, quality also matters.

You say you know people with multiple Teslas. Maybe, but I've certainly picked up that people that have owned them aren't making repeat purchases. Maybe you work for Tesla (you seem to have an obsessive regard for their cars) ..... Either way my sense is that Tesla will face rather more competition beyond the US, and if it can't improve quality, then they will struggle to persuade people to move over to their brand.

CEO of the business I work for is on his 2nd Model S, CFO is on his 2nd Model S, I’ve had a Model S and have a reservation on a Model 3.

Model Y battery tech is the same as Model 3, so the stats above relate to that and its been on sale for some time.

Quality does matter though and I can tell you from seeing multiple Model S’s that the build quality has been getting better and better.

[okenemem]

Looks good , 280 miles range seems good enough