RE: Toyota GR Supra: Driven

[Hot Knife]

Another super fugly japanese design.

The old Supra is quite an elegant but still masculine shape and it's engine, legendary. This just seems like a total anti-climax to me. Toyota do that so well. They always kill of their stars, like the Celica GT4.

[rallycross]

Burwood said:

I can't get my head around journalists claim 'it's very good value' at £52k. Otherwise, nice job Toyota?

I don’t understand how it’s more expensive than similar Bmw’s It’s a Toyota it should be good value.

The front looks horrible but like the side and rear views.

I’m a big fan of sporty Toyota’s and I love 6 cylinder Bmw’s But I’m strangely not that excited by this new Supra.

I had a twin turbo version of the last supra and it was a very impressive car but also a very Japanese car and that’s part of the appeal of fast Jap stuff they are usually really quick reliable and affordable.

This will only sell if Toyota come out with a good finance package - one of th reasons why the Gt86 never sold well here was lack of decent finance deals ( I think they finally improved the deals).

[Scootersp]

They all seem hamstrung since....until Nissan and the R35.

RX8 (where did the turbo go), nothing replaced the Evo or the GTO etc.

It can't just be emission regs etc, I think perhaps all these old cars whilst a bit 'out there' weren't actually that profitable for the manufacturers and so now the eye is more on the purse strings as well as the regulation restrictions?

[mgbond]

I noticed in this review that there was no mention on all the prep the car already has for the tuners. I see a video online pointing out the areas like roll bar fixing points, strengthened areas at the rear for a wing and that if the vents are removed you can open up better down force. It is still quite expensive as a starting point but I do like the look of it.

[Scootersp]

rallycross said:

I had a twin turbo version of the last supra and it was a very impressive car but also a very Japanese car and that’s part of the appeal of fast Jap stuff they are usually really quick reliable and affordable.

This will only sell if Toyota come out with a good finance package - one of the reasons why the Gt86 never sold well here was lack of decent finance deals ( I think they finally improved the deals).

The affordable thing though only came about over time, the Mkiv was not affordable when new, the Japanese market and GBP/YEN rate years later spawned a whole new Japanese import industry for many cars, that's where the affordability came from, and may do with this one too.

They have SZ 2.0L models being sold in Japan......if it's a huge success over there then in years to come we may find the same influx of these into the uk and then we might be able to engine swap (given this potential widespread availability of the BMW engine?) down the line prices could get hammered down as they did with the Mkiv (for years is was very out of favour and suffered the same depreciation curve as most cars ie down to almost worthless)

[JB!]

Scootersp said:

rallycross said:

I had a twin turbo version of the last supra and it was a very impressive car but also a very Japanese car and that’s part of the appeal of fast Jap stuff they are usually really quick reliable and affordable.

This will only sell if Toyota come out with a good finance package - one of the reasons why the Gt86 never sold well here was lack of decent finance deals ( I think they finally improved the deals).

The affordable thing though only came about over time, the Mkiv was not affordable when new, the Japanese market and GBP/YEN rate years later spawned a whole new Japanese import industry for many cars, that's where the affordability came from, and may do with this one too.

They have SZ 2.0L models being sold in Japan......if it's a huge success over there then in years to come we may find the same influx of these into the uk and then we might be able to engine swap (given this potential widespread availability of the BMW engine?) down the line prices could get hammered down as they did with the Mkiv (for years is was very out of favour and suffered the same depreciation curve as most cars ie down to almost worthless)

The 2.0's will get LSx or 1.5J/2J Toyota lumps, nobody into conversions will want the ballache of modern BMW when they can bolt in power easily.

Also the old rule of "don't build what you can buy" why swap a BMW turbo 6 in, when you can buy one already done?

[dave_s13]

mgbond said:

I noticed in this review that there was no mention on all the prep the car already has for the tuners. I see a video online pointing out the areas like roll bar fixing points, strengthened areas at the rear for a wing and that if the vents are removed you can open up better down force. It is still quite expensive as a starting point but I do like the look of it.

The Doug demuro review details all these "quirks and features".

All the fake grills can be opened up to provide more airflow etc...the standard car doesn't need it. There are mounting points under the boot lid to stick on a wing, the standard car doesn't need it. There are fixing points in the engine bay for a torsion bars, the standard car doesn't need it.

As said, they've made it as a blank canvas for nutters to turn up the boost to 1000bhp.

I would probably trust a toyota engine over a BMW one to not break expensively every other week though.

Edited by dave_s13 on Wednesday 15th May 14:13

[DanielSan]

LasseV said:

DanielSan said:

https://sniffpetrol.com/2019/05/14/new-supra-fit-t...

What more needs to be said.

Total BS article with no real life credibility.


For example mkII won several times Import car of the year award in US. mkIII was a great GT car according to test drives. MKIV was a beast in handling and overall performance. Supras has always been great cars.

Source: Brookland Books Toyota Supra 1982-1998 Performance Portfolio.

You're not familiar with Sniff Petrol I take it?

[Scootersp]

JB! said:

The 2.0's will get LSx or 1.5J/2J Toyota lumps, nobody into conversions will want the ballache of modern BMW when they can bolt in power easily.

Also the old rule of "don't build what you can buy" why swap a BMW turbo 6 in, when you can buy one already done?

At some point in time it may be the best way. In 5-8 years there won't be many good 1.5J or 2J or LS engines left in comparison and I think getting one into and talking to the rest of the car will be harder than fitting another BMW engine designed to go into the same space and where the looms and ecu's have a chance of communicating without too many issues?

The Non turbo Mkiv Supra's got converted to twin turbo's as for a time, Non turbo cost + used engine < TT car.

I think perhaps we/I have veered this away from the new car, I couldn't afford a new Mkiv and can't really afford this new one either (but used it's on the radar for the future) so will stop posting about the bygone days.....

Edited by Scootersp on Wednesday 15th May 14:16

[T-195]

kambites said:

Pommy said:

Not sure why the hate for the BMW part.

As long as Toyota have really pushed BMW to achieve Toyota levels of reliability, I agree. Seems like a good match to me.

They have made it hideous to disguise the fact it is a Z4.

[The Vambo]

spikyone said:

Because they're a bloody stupid idea. No-one outside a car manufacturer has ever looked at their handbrake and thought "you know what, that would be so much better if it was just a button so that I have literally no idea if it's engaged or not when I stop on a hill".

You must be the only person I've ever met that can't feel the very obvious feedback through the brake pedal when it is engaged.

[RedXYC]

Maybe I am just getting old but I really can't get excited about this car. It feels like an utter disappointment (from reading the spec sheet). The interior isn't a modern interpretation of the MK4, its a straight BMW interior. The body looks a mess and there is far too much BMW in this car to be considered a true Supra. Saying that if it wasn't for the BMW partnership there wouldn't be a new Supra so I will leave it at that.

[JB!]

Scootersp said:

JB! said:

The 2.0's will get LSx or 1.5J/2J Toyota lumps, nobody into conversions will want the ballache of modern BMW when they can bolt in power easily.

Also the old rule of "don't build what you can buy" why swap a BMW turbo 6 in, when you can buy one already done?

At some point in time it may be the best way. In 5-8 years there won't be many good 1.5J or 2J or LS engines left in comparison and I think getting one into and talking to the rest of the car will be harder than fitting another BMW engine designed to go into the same space and where the looms and ecu's have a chance of communicating without too many issues?

The Non turbo Mkiv Supra's got converted to twin turbo's as for a time, Non turbo cost + used engine < TT car.

I think perhaps we/I have veered this away from the new car, I couldn't afford a new Mkiv and can't really afford this new one either (but used it's on the radar for the future) so will stop posting about the bygone days.....

Edited by Scootersp on Wednesday 15th May 14:16

Chevy will continue to turn out crate engines, it's a nice earner. Yes, at some point people may use up the JZ engine supply, but not in the next 5-8 years, they are expensive now, but available.

The N54 BMW lump I could see going in, but the newer one will be damn expensive, and you're only at 350hp?

[MX6]

Interesting review. I've got a soft spot for Japanese performance cars and do like this new Supra from what I've seen.

There's no doubt that it's an overly fussy exterior design, I'm not into the fake vents and what-not but it does look striking in the pictures, and certainly stands out as a unique and interesting sports cars in the market at this price. I could see it having quite a bit of presence on the road.

It does seem to be a car that's geared up to be a capable and highly tunable base engine and chassis platform, rather than solely being the last word in cutting edge performance machinery. Much like Supra's of old really, I do think some have rose-tinted glasses when it comes to the previous lineage.

The interior is fine for me, some seem quite fussy about such things but since when did Japanese performance cars historically have especially attractive interiors anyway.

[300bhp/ton]

E65Ross said:

spikyone said:

Matt Bird said:

Hi all,

Apologies for omission of a Supra interior pic - my fk up. Anyway, here 'tis, and in the story, freshly shot in RHD with Radio 2 on...



Cheers!


Matt

Have they really given it an electronic handbrake too? FFS, WHY?!

Because it's better than a manual?

In what way?

[300bhp/ton]

I'm a little lost at all the hate for this car.

It's not as if the MK IV was a stunning looking think. A bit wild, yes. Especially the rear wing, but it was well wide of the mark of pretty. Awesome car in it's own right though.

This new one looks far more striking and exotic than a GT86, more so than a 370z too IMO. And it's faster than the 370z. If it's worth the extra over the Nissan I'm not sure, but seeing as it cost less than many other 2 seater sports cars I'm not convinced it is massively over priced.

[parabolica]

oilit said:

Well, now i have found a picture of the interior - all i can say is that the interior is better than the exterior...



Unless of course you are the passenger and want to use the arm rest - as it will most likely be unusable as there will be a coffee cup or phone there - how bizarre...

Loving the mis-matched door cards; red on one side, black on the other...

[Miserablegit]

I think one of the issues is that it doesn't cost less than other 2 seaters. It's at the same price as caysters/z4/alpine. I think that, perhaps, is the concern of some posters but that is clearly the cost of a 2 seat sports car these days.
I think they should have called it a Celica to correctly align it to its current market/peer group
I like the rear - sides are a bit fussy and I don't like fake vents but that, to me, is a typical japanese market trait.

[Slow]

JB! said:

Scootersp said:

JB! said:

The 2.0's will get LSx or 1.5J/2J Toyota lumps, nobody into conversions will want the ballache of modern BMW when they can bolt in power easily.

Also the old rule of "don't build what you can buy" why swap a BMW turbo 6 in, when you can buy one already done?

At some point in time it may be the best way. In 5-8 years there won't be many good 1.5J or 2J or LS engines left in comparison and I think getting one into and talking to the rest of the car will be harder than fitting another BMW engine designed to go into the same space and where the looms and ecu's have a chance of communicating without too many issues?

The Non turbo Mkiv Supra's got converted to twin turbo's as for a time, Non turbo cost + used engine < TT car.

I think perhaps we/I have veered this away from the new car, I couldn't afford a new Mkiv and can't really afford this new one either (but used it's on the radar for the future) so will stop posting about the bygone days.....

Edited by Scootersp on Wednesday 15th May 14:16

Chevy will continue to turn out crate engines, it's a nice earner. Yes, at some point people may use up the JZ engine supply, but not in the next 5-8 years, they are expensive now, but available.

The N54 BMW lump I could see going in, but the newer one will be damn expensive, and you're only at 350hp?

There are so many LS engines, even the stock 5.3 truck motors take boost to 500+ bhp easily. Ignoring the fact they also sell them brand new.

I have to imagine Toyota are going to start selling brand new JZ blocks, same as Nissan are with the rb26 engine.

[Jon_S_Rally]

I remain very confused by this car to be honest. The Supra was a big GT car, so I don't understand why they have brought the badge back for a this segment.

Given the might of Toyota, did they really need to tie-up with BMW for this project? And, even if they did, is a Z4 with a different body really what the end result should have been?

In some shots, the rear quarter view and side profile look good but, in others, not so much. Sadly, from any angle, the front end looks awful. The whole car is just a bit fussy and over-complicated.

Perhaps I will be proven wrong and it will be popular but, in this badge-obsessed world, I can see the BMW version out-selling it, while this ends up rather forgotten.

Sorry Toyota, it's a no from me. An opportunity missed.