RE: Why the Lotus Elise still matters | PH Footnote

[edo111s]

flukey5 said:

Vee12V said:

Depends on how you're going to use it. If it's just the WE toy It's the Elise every time. The MX5 is a bit more friendly as a daily.

Unfortunately it'd have to be a daily, though that's not stopping me convincing myself that I'm flexible enough to put up with it! haha

I had 2 Elises and am now on my 2nd MX5 (the current 2.0L)
Drove my 2nd Elise , an SC, for 9 years as a daily racking up 110k miles. Did a few TDs too.

So you can use an Elise as a daily - but after trying an ND2 mx5 I’d never would go the lotus-as-daily route again.

I’d love a 250cup as a toy though, but justifying owning two 2seaters is hard !

[blueg33]

rockin said:

twinturban said:

So thanks to you lot Lotus will lose the sills, make it bigger, fit EPAS, fit a larger engine to lug around the extra weight, give it conservative unisex styling, fit cheaper strut suspension (no-one will know or care) next thing you know you have a Cayman without the badge, built in Norfolk.

Perhaps you've been asleep for the last 10 years and haven't noticed the Evora. Mind you, few people have.

Evora doesn't have unisex styling or strut suspension - it has lovely aluminium wishbones.

[wpc692]

I have a MX5 NC 2.0 as weekend/fun car, I use it on the road and also on various trackdays.

I know that logically this is the best all round solution, it has also some confort for the trips, has low maintenance costs, it's (almost) reliable.

But I want an Elise, I want to open my garage and see this iconic car.

I think in the next 3 years I will saving money in order to buy an S2 SC for my 30th birthday.

[Composite Guru]

wpc692 said:

I have a MX5 NC 2.0 as weekend/fun car, I use it on the road and also on various trackdays.

I know that logically this is the best all round solution, it has also some confort for the trips, has low maintenance costs, it's (almost) reliable.

But I want an Elise, I want to open my garage and see this iconic car.

I think in the next 3 years I will saving money in order to buy an S2 SC for my 30th birthday.

Good for you. Do it!!

I was 43 until I made the jump. Wish I had got the chance before that. I've been missing out for all those years.

[Mr E]

TartanPaint said:

If you can't face the daily commute in an Elise, that's fine, although many can and do. Just stick a 2-11 in the garage for sunny weekends. There's a variant for every requirement.

It gets used for the commute when the weather is nice. It’s a bit compromised for the winter commute; not from a driver comfort perspective but simply the lights/wiper/tyres are’t much good.

[LordGrover]

Never really 'got' the Elise thing.

I've had a few sporty cars, including a Lotus very early on (1974 Elite II) but the Elise always seemed a bit low-tech kit-car to me - despite me loving my Griff and the Elise being anything but.

Gravitated towards Boxsters the last couple of years and love them.
However, even though mine is only 2.7 litres and ~265BHP I still find myself going 'too fast' (whatever that is), too often - and I can feel the (excess?) weight everywhere. Sounds great though and I feel good driving it, even if just to and from the office.

Thanks to this topic I'm popping over the common to Williams Automobiles this weekend to see/try the Elise.

[TartanPaint]

Mr E said:

TartanPaint said:

If you can't face the daily commute in an Elise, that's fine, although many can and do. Just stick a 2-11 in the garage for sunny weekends. There's a variant for every requirement.

It gets used for the commute when the weather is nice. It’s a bit compromised for the winter commute; not from a driver comfort perspective but simply the lights/wiper/tyres are’t much good.

You do need to change the tyres, that's true. I used to get very stuck on R888s when it snowed. Had to abandon the car a few times and trudge home...

And don't panic when a clump of snow drops onto the radiator and clouds you in steam; it's not a coolant leak...

Oh, and maybe pop out 15 mins before leaving to warm the heater up; it saves loosening the harnesses every minute to reach forwards to wipe the re-forming frost off the inside of the screen....

Yeah, OK, if you want to get picky I guess it is a bit compromised in winter.

[kambites]

If you keep it in a warm garage and have decent tyres (AD07s are remarkably good in the wet) it's not too bad in the winter. The biggest problem I have is with the fact that SUVs' dipped beam headlights tend to point straight into your eyes as they drive past or straight into your mirrors if they pull up behind you at lights... and with modern gazillion lumen lights that really messes up your night vision.

I usually have the option of grabbing the wife's Octavia on cross-climates and in practice I always take the Elise unless there's actually snow on the roads.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 8th August 09:30

[gofasterrosssco]

Tim124 said:

I've never owned an Elise but I've had a vx220 Turbo for 5+ years and can't bring myself to sell it even though it's inconvenient for almost any use. Nothing comes close to non-assisted steering and low weight.

They are still a bargain but the torque, turbo and extra 100kg? probably make it a completely different dynamic to the Elise!

Nope, they are essentially the same driving experience once a few small suspension and tyres changes are made. Turbo (once lambasted as 'heavy') is no heavier than the 250 Cup discussed here.

The VX220 (yep, I've had three, still got a supercharged car - running exige suspension, Lotus wheel spec and ABS - kinda like a budget 250 Cup!) is still the bargain of the Elise range.

[kambites]

gofasterrosssco said:

Nope, they are essentially the same driving experience once a few small suspension and tyres changes are made.

In my experience the single biggest difference to the handling is the wheel sizes Vauxhall used. For the VXR, Vauxhall swapped to Lotus's sizes and it made the thing drive much more like an Elise than a normal VX220. The VX220 never had the delicacy of the S1 or even the K-series S2 Elise but it's a match for the Toyota engined cars in most ways.

[bcr5784]

Repent said:

I’m currently steering a tidy low mileage 130i with Birds B1 suspension and shortly ARBs and LSD. It’s intended to be a fun all rounder whilst paying off the wedding and house purchase next year. Then I’ll be hunting an Evora.

Or that’s what I’ve been obsessing over. But maybe I’m off the mark. I’ve read numerous posts from Elise/VX owners who’ve moved to Evora’s and found them a less interesting steer, which makes sense given the brief. I’ll be keeping the 130i for future family needs and this will be for driving, I don’t need something with GT DNA. If the Evora is simply a larger, faster slightly better fitted Elise with the same feel that’s something I’d love to try.

If anyone has experience of the two and can give insight I’d be hugely appreciative. Perhaps I should be after a 220 or 250 Cup.

Edited by Repent on Wednesday 7th August 22:56

The Evora is a very nice car, very underrated imo - but really a different animal to the Elise. It is far less focussed but a perfectly useable every day car in a way an Elise is not. That is either a good thing or a bad thing depending on your point of view. I debated in my mind between an Evora and an Alpine - and went Alpine for its (MUCH) lighter feel and agility. If you look at Harry's Garage you'll see he preferred the Evora.

[RobM77]

kambites said:

Almost all of the driving I do in the UK is in my Elise. Pretty much the only time I travel in another other car is when we're going somewhere as a family at the weekend, and my wife almost always drives then.

I suppose I'm lucky in that I pretty much never drive in heavy traffic and very rarely drive on motorways. When you have a cross-country commute and don't need to take anything more than a laptop to work, there's really not much of a downside to using an Elise as a commuter car.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 8th August 07:50

Mine was my only car for a few years and I loved every minute of it. Sadly now my commute alone is nearly 20k miles a year, plus I need to tow my racing car in a large trailer and carry my windsurfing stuff once a week in season. Even so, I do sometimes wonder if I should quit windsurfing and motor racing just to have an Elise again, they really are just so much better to drive than anything else.

[RobM77]

Mr E said:

TartanPaint said:

If you can't face the daily commute in an Elise, that's fine, although many can and do. Just stick a 2-11 in the garage for sunny weekends. There's a variant for every requirement.

It gets used for the commute when the weather is nice. It’s a bit compromised for the winter commute; not from a driver comfort perspective but simply the lights/wiper/tyres are’t much good.

I owned a 2-11 for a few years. This may sound strange, but I thought the Elise was actually a better road car. The 2-11 had so much grip and performance that everything it did on public roads, even illegally, seemed rather pedestrian. Also, unless it's properly sunny you need to wear gloves to keep your hands warm, which reduces the steering feel significantly. The reason I sold the 2-11 is that when you did eventually make it to a circuit, it wasn't as good as a dedicated track car.

[Sford]

Thought this thread needed more pics.

[emss]

Hi,

janesmith1950 said:

Entirely subjective I realise, however the S1 looks just right, in a way the later cars don't quite match.

From a shape point of view, I'm quite fond of the S1 as well (my true wet dreams are 60's racers like Lola T70 MkII Spyder, Dino 206 SP, Lotus 23...) but some thinks S2 or S3 Series look more "modern".

From a engine point of view, I do love K-Series like the tuned VHPD (rebuilt & properly finished) found in a friend's 340R, my optimized VVC (ported head, properly timed VVC, 270 exhaust cam, full Raceline ancillaries) or other solid cams conversion I've driven, but I really like the supercharged 2ZZ-GE found in the S2 SC, the way it howls when mated to a full stage 3 exhaust and TRD airbox is quite fun, it's revvy and pulls hard (unlike the NA 2ZZ...)

I've driven other toys (TVRs, Porsche Boxster, Mercedes SLK 350, Ginettas, Miatas, Caterhams, S2/S3 Elises), but none of them could replace my S1, except maybe a 2.0l Dare G4, Lotus 340R or Caterham CSR.

A 2.0l Miata ND or some TVRs (Tamora for example) would make perfect garage mates.

My S1 Elise has ruined pretty all alternatives

Éric

Edited by emss on Thursday 8th August 10:07

[RobM77]

I like the looks of both S1 and S2. From a driving point of view though, the S2 did move things on subtly in a number of areas, so that's where my preferences lie.

[blueg33]

kambites said:

If you keep it in a warm garage and have decent tyres (AD07s are remarkably good in the wet) it's not too bad in the winter. The biggest problem I have is with the fact that SUVs' dipped beam headlights tend to point straight into your eyes as they drive past or straight into your mirrors if they pull up behind you at lights... and with modern gazillion lumen lights that really messes up your night vision.

I usually have the option of grabbing the wife's Octavia on cross-climates and in practice I always take the Elise unless there's actually snow on the roads.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 8th August 09:30

Ha, not dissimilar to the cars I have available, my wife has an Octavia Scout on cross climates. But I have a set of winter tyres for the Evora so that gets used in the snow occasionally.

[bcr5784]

Personally don't quite get this preference for the S1 (which I owned for a couple of years). Although I liked the K series engine, overall I preferred a Kent engined live axled (!) Caterham I had previously for it's handling. (as has often been said you steer a Caterham by power of thought)

Fast forward to now and when I drove both a number of Caterhams and an S220 Elise - I much preferred the Elise. The Elise seems to have come quite a long way and feels much better put together than my S1 did, the gearchange is now good when it was very poor before, and the noises off from the rear suspension have gone. The Caterham seems to have gone the other way with more track orientated suspension, and dreadful whine from the diff.

[cerb4.5lee]

RobM77 said:

I like the looks of both S1 and S2.

I remember when the S2 first came out and I much preferred the S1 back then and I wasn't that keen on the looks of the S2...whereas now I much prefer the S2 because the S1 just looks so dated now for me.

[RobM77]

cerb4.5lee said:

RobM77 said:

I like the looks of both S1 and S2.

I remember when the S2 first came out and I much preferred the S1 back then and I wasn't that keen on the looks of the S2...whereas now I much prefer the S2 because the S1 just looks so dated now for me.

There's a really good film on the design and engineering of the Elise, which I believe was made from a series on Discovery. If you watch closely in the design office early on in the film, one of Julian Thompson's designers has a drawing of the S2 (as near as a sketch will ever be, at least) on his drawing board; before the S1 had even been launched.