What’s the future hold for us petrol heads?

[biggbn]

LimaDelta said:

Max_Torque said:

TypicalPhMember said:

I morn the loss of tactility and interaction of an ICE powered vehicle

Goes to look in said members garage and finds they drive a vauxhall insignia...........



Lets be honest, there is no reason an EV can't be fin to drive, my daily EV is the most fun (normal) car i've driven in ages, and makes me smile everytime i drive it, in fact, it makes me WANT to drive it !

(it actually reminds me of an early elise in the way it handles, matching a relatively low level of grip with a very responsive, perhaps too responsive, chassis)

Snap. Our i3 is great, I completely concur.

I think the biggest anti-EVers are those who are yet to try one.

Really like the idea of i3.

[av185]

Condi said:

The kids these days don't care as much, if at all, about petrol cars in the same way that the older generations did.

Presumably you have evidence to back this up?

Otherwise it is just a figment of your imagination to suit your agenda.

[av185]

Max_Torque said:

Goes to look in said members garage and finds they drive a vauxhall insignia...........



Lets be honest, there is no reason an EV can't be fun to drive, My daily EV is the most fun (normal) car i've driven in ages, and makes me smile .everytime i drive it, in fact, it makes me WANT to drive it !

(it actually reminds me of an early elise in the way it handles, matching a relatively low level of grip with a very responsive, perhaps too responsive, chassis)

A daily ev with a chassis that is TOO responsive.

I've heard it all now.

[Condi]

av185 said:

Condi said:

The kids these days don't care as much, if at all, about petrol cars in the same way that the older generations did.

Presumably you have evidence to back this up?

Otherwise it is just a figment of your imagination to suit your agenda.

Not at all, the evidence is all around you. Age of passing driving test. % of people with a driving licence. Sales of MaxPower and similar magazines (include websites if you like). Involvement in the modding scene. Number of viewers of motorsport events. All show a lower level of engagement than that of 20 years ago. In fact, find me one statistic which shows an equal or higher interest in cars in general, let alone petrol cars, than 20 years ago?

[biggbn]

av185 said:

A daily ev with a chassis that is TOO responsive.

I've heard it all now.

Why do some find it so difficult to equate ev with fun. Its only the mode of propulsion that has changed?

[rjg48]

biggbn said:

Why do some find it so difficult to equate ev with fun. Its only the mode of propulsion that has changed?

Whatevs. Why do you not care that we won't be able to buy new Petrol cars in 10 years time?

As I said before, I don't need to buy an EV to know I have nowhere to charge one at home.

[rjg48]

av185 said:

Condi said:

The kids these days don't care as much, if at all, about petrol cars in the same way that the older generations did.

Presumably you have evidence to back this up?

Otherwise it is just a figment of your imagination to suit your agenda.

He said it so it must be true.

[ntiz]

What does the future hold?

Probably an EV on your drive that you will charge at home. You will be taxed based on mileage that will be calculated against the value of the car. So that chap with a million pound Rimac pays more than chap in a leaf.

You will keep your ICE in the garage for sunny days etc. You might have to order petrol ahead or something eventually. They won’t kill them off because there is a big industry behind them.

Life will continue.

I just hope by the time this comes about the charging has improved a bit and the range as well. Personally something like a Tesla doesn’t quite work for me yet but I’m the 1% anomaly for most perfectly usable.

[biggbn]

rjg48 said:

biggbn said:

Why do some find it so difficult to equate ev with fun. Its only the mode of propulsion that has changed?

Whatevs. Why do you not care that we won't be able to buy new Petrol cars in 10 years time?

As I said before, I don't need to buy an EV to know I have nowhere to charge one at home.

Hey man, I'm well aware of infrastructure deficits for ev at the present time, but your 'why don't you...' post has little relevance to this duscussion, but I will answer it nonetheless. I dont care that we may not be able to buy a petrol car in the future as, as efficient as they doubtless are for what they are, they are dreadfully inefficient and rely on a finite resource to propel. I love a big v8, but I love steam engines and supermarine spitfires, offshore power boats with barely silenced lamborghini v12s and big thudding American v twins...but none of them have a place in the future except as a reference point to the way things were.

Please note, im not saying electricity is the answer, it needs to be created itself, but the longer we hang onto our archaic propulsion systems, the longer we are spending gazing at our navels and not researching alternative fuels

[rjg48]

biggbn said:

rjg48 said:

biggbn said:

Why do some find it so difficult to equate ev with fun. Its only the mode of propulsion that has changed?

Whatevs. Why do you not care that we won't be able to buy new Petrol cars in 10 years time?

As I said before, I don't need to buy an EV to know I have nowhere to charge one at home.

Hey man, I'm well aware of infrastructure deficits for ev at the present time, but your 'why don't you...' post has little relevance to this duscussion,

I think it has a lot of relevance to the discussion.

[kambites]

rjg48 said:

I think it has a lot of relevance to the discussion.

Well the question was "what does the future hold" so your ability to charge at home now isn't really relevant. Your ability or lack thereof to charge at home in 10 years time is entirely relevant, but somewhat difficult to know.

[av185]

biggbn said:

av185 said:

A daily ev with a chassis that is TOO responsive.

I've heard it all now.

Why do some find it so difficult to equate ev with fun. Its only the mode of propulsion that has changed?

EVs can and have been described in many ways but fun certainly isn't one of them.

And from a driving enthusiasts /PH perspective if you cannot differentiate between the challenge therefore enjoyment/fun possible from driving an interesting ice car with a charismatic and powerful engine mated to a quality manual gearbox compared to a souless and dreary EV that any 10 year old or granny could drive then most would despair.

EVs represent the ultimate in driving dilution.

Rather similar to what Macdonalds represent to quality food in fact.

Edited by av185 on Monday 13th July 11:52

[anonymous-user]

I'm hoping that lighter battery packs become a thing before too long, I think a light electric sports car (not a ‘sports’ hippo as produced by the likes of Porsche and BMW) could be utterly fantastic with the instant response to the accelerator and the ability to extremely precisely control the power.

The responsiveness of an EV powertrain in a ~1000KG car would be stupendous.

[kambites]

av185 said:

EVs can and have been described in many ways but fun certainly isn't one of them.

Now you see this is exactly what I say about turbocharged cars (although these days I'm very careful to prefix it with "in my opinion" because to some people that apparently isn't obvious).

For me, neither will ever replace a nice free-reving naturally aspirated engine connected to a manual gearbox for fun which is why I don't intend to ever replace my nice free-reving naturally aspirated car for fun.

Edited by kambites on Monday 13th July 11:53

[CABC]

petrol engines are now so refined as a technology they're smooth, powerful and quite clean overall.
however, for the most point they're ruined by legislation: tall gearing, narrow band turbos etc.
i propose that we migrate 90% of cars to EV asap. the other 10% should be unfettered for petrolhead pleasure.

[leef44]

AW111 said:

Uggers said:

Do you ever fly?
Have kids?
Buy food from a supermarket?
Live in a house with CH?
Commute to work?

Don't ever think for one moment buying an EV saves you from been the same as the rest of us.

I'm selfish, I'm a product of a privileged western upbringing much like yourself. I am however aware of this conflicting situation.

You on the other hand are utterly deluded if you think you are saving your kids and grandkids future by buying a Tesla.

There are 2-3 billion people on this planet who would sell their own kids to get the lifestyle that enables you to buy a £70k EV. What makes you think any one of them will give a damn about the environment in the pursuit of getting what you have?

Ok, so we all do nothing then.
That's that problem solved.

No, we should reduce propagation of the human race and reduce consumerism if we really wanted to stabilise the environment of the earth for human habitat. However, this hard fact is too harsh for us to comprehend.

Unfortunately Uggers is correct. We are all hypocrites and we are all too selfish. I don't just mean PH members, I mean the human race.

So switching from ICE to EV is p**sing in the wind compared to what really needs to be done.

[kambites]

CABC said:

i propose that we migrate 90% of cars to EV asap. the other 10% should be unfettered for petrolhead pleasure.

That, basically, has always been my argument in favour of EVs. The sooner all the anodyne four-pot turbos become battery electric instead, the sooner the remaining interesting petrol powered cars owned by enthusiasts become insignificant and hence stop being persecuted. The longer it takes the mainstream to switch, the more draconian the measures against ICE cars will become.

[anonymous-user]

Don't forget rules are likely to apply to new sales. Unlikely to be a ban on used sales of modern petrol cars this decade?

Even if 20% new car sales are BEV, which is very high, it's still going be many years before ICE is the minoirty in the total fleet.

[LimaDelta]

Look, the simple fact is this. Even on PH, there is a significant proportion of members who are not just not afraid of, but are positively welcoming of a BEV future. Imagine how that translates to the wider population where most people couldn't care less about the particular means of propulsion in their chosen means of transport? 99% of mass produced internal combustion engines are dull, characterless and lacking in aural impact or dynamic response. Hardly a great loss to the world if they disappeared forever.

[rxe]

LimaDelta said:

Look, the simple fact is this. Even on PH, there is a significant proportion of members who are not just not afraid of, but are positively welcoming of a BEV future. Imagine how that translates to the wider population where most people couldn't care less about the particular means of propulsion in their chosen means of transport? 99% of mass produced internal combustion engines are dull, characterless and lacking in aural impact or dynamic response. Hardly a great loss to the world if they disappeared forever.

The flip side is that most people look at a 10K car strapped to a 20K battery and think "that's a bit st for the money, and I can only do 200 miles in it". EVs have to become a lot cheaper if they are going to appeal widely.