RE: Lotus gears up for new sports car launch
Discussion
CraigyMc said:
HeMightBeBanned said:
CraigyMc said:
The 111 is just the S1 Elise's chassis.
If you're talking S2 elise, it would be an M117 or M120 depending on year, an Exige V6/Sport 350 would be M138.
(NB: wikipedia is wrong).
There have been many variants. Calling everything elise-esque M111 is just wrong.
No it's not. You're being pedantic over Lotus model numbers. The chassis in the S1 Elise (Lotus M111), S2 Elise, S2 Exige, S3 Elise, V6 Exige is basically the same. If you're talking S2 elise, it would be an M117 or M120 depending on year, an Exige V6/Sport 350 would be M138.
(NB: wikipedia is wrong).
There have been many variants. Calling everything elise-esque M111 is just wrong.
The ones that came after the S1 Elise/Exige have slightly lowered sills but otherwise they're all the same. It's the same fundamental architecture, the same basic dimensions and delivers a great drive with significant usability compromises across all of them. The biggest difference is in the design of the rear subframes to accommodate the various different engines from Rover, Toyota and Vauxhall (VX220 and Lotus Europa), and the dimensions of the wishbones bolted to the chassis.
rrrright.
Onwards...
Cold said:
kambites said:
The Evora's tub is based on a completely different platform to the Elise's. The picture above appears to be a late Elise/Exige tub but I suspect it's a file photo and lazy journalism by PH.
Is this microphone on?Cold said:
Just to put this to bed once and for all and to save the blushes of PHers, the chassis pictured is a validation and quality control item to asses the manufacturing process of the new production site. That's it.
Read no more into it.
https://media.lotuscars.com/en/news-articles/the-s...
Read no more into it.
https://media.lotuscars.com/en/news-articles/the-s...
AndyGT430 said:
It will be great, trust me! I put down my deposit last year on what model and engine configuration I want!! sorry cant say anymore than that;-)
Cool starry bra. I chat to a couple of the guys working at Lotus a lot, and it's a near certainty that I'll be buying one to replace the Evora, with maybe a gap inbetween due to the timing.
I don't really know anymore than anyone else, I've heard the rumours of the AMG four banger, which I like the sound of, and I've heard that the launch engine will be the V6. As for looks: think mini Evija, which I'd really like.
Either way, the guys at the factory know what enthusiasts want and what they need to do to sell more. I believe they can do both, as best as any company can do
otolith said:
leglessAlex said:
I've heard the rumours of the AMG four banger, which I like the sound of
I don't like the sound of that.I mean literally, not figuratively.
Actually, also figuratively.
Does that drivetrain come with a manual transmission in anything?
I think those disappointed at the thought of an AMG 4 pot are going to be doubly disappointed when the reality of a standard parts bin 200/250bhp turbo Volvo/Geely unit hits home 
It's just not going to be the new A45 unit. If it was that's a simple and easy remap away from a robust 500bhp, which at ~1100kg with DSG would make the performance pretty much equal to a £300k+ 720S/F8 Tributo.
It's just not going to be the new A45 unit. If it was that's a simple and easy remap away from a robust 500bhp, which at ~1100kg with DSG would make the performance pretty much equal to a £300k+ 720S/F8 Tributo.
The slightly strange thing is that the 4 pot is what Lotus has always been about in many ways. It was the affordable unit that was small and light. And then as the entire world of automotive latched on to the need to downsize and go 4 pot, Lotus suddenly went in the opposite direction having to add cylinders in order to be able to get the power outputs that a Top Trump deck requires.
But 4 pots have caught up in the last few years so there is absolutely no need for a new Lotus to lug about anything more than 4 pots once more.
The AMG unit will surely be a cracking choice of 4 pot. It has great power, is highly tuneable and detunable allowing for the same engine to go into cars at different price points and much of the world thinks Mercedes is a proper classy word that exudes real success and multiple income streams and everyone else will be able to say that their Lotus is just like an Aston but faster.
Conversely, stick something from the Geely stock shelves in it and they are straight back to most consumers not remotely willing to part with the cash that Lotus want.
Something that looks like the Evija and with that AMG unit and for a sensible price would be genuinely good. It's a given that it'll drive well. It seems likely to be an auto though as that is what most buyers demand today and the purpose of this product is to increase sales volumes and arguably make a little break away from a more traditional client base.
But 4 pots have caught up in the last few years so there is absolutely no need for a new Lotus to lug about anything more than 4 pots once more.
The AMG unit will surely be a cracking choice of 4 pot. It has great power, is highly tuneable and detunable allowing for the same engine to go into cars at different price points and much of the world thinks Mercedes is a proper classy word that exudes real success and multiple income streams and everyone else will be able to say that their Lotus is just like an Aston but faster.
Conversely, stick something from the Geely stock shelves in it and they are straight back to most consumers not remotely willing to part with the cash that Lotus want.
Something that looks like the Evija and with that AMG unit and for a sensible price would be genuinely good. It's a given that it'll drive well. It seems likely to be an auto though as that is what most buyers demand today and the purpose of this product is to increase sales volumes and arguably make a little break away from a more traditional client base.
If Lotus do their own ECU, they could probably make a good fist of the AMG lump, at least as four-pot turbos go - they can tune down the low-rev torque to make it suit a lighter application and get rid of the god-awful pops and farts. An automatic gearbox is inevitable but if we're lucky they'll find a way to offer a manual open as well.
Personally I think Lotus would be better off skipping this car and going straight to an EV platform for their entry level car, but if they must go ICE we're probably going to have to accept a rather characterless, high torque, turbocharged lump mated to an automatic gearbox.
Personally I think Lotus would be better off skipping this car and going straight to an EV platform for their entry level car, but if they must go ICE we're probably going to have to accept a rather characterless, high torque, turbocharged lump mated to an automatic gearbox.
Edited by kambites on Friday 22 January 15:24
kambites said:
If Lotus do their own ECU, they could probably make a good fist of the AMG lump, at least as four-pot turbos go - they can tune down the low-rev torque to make it suit a lighter application and get rid of the god-awful pops and farts. An automatic gearbox is probably inevitable.
Add some class you mean? This article seems to have more meat in it than the TVR plant at Ebbw Vale
https://media.lotuscars.com/en/news-articles/lotus...
https://media.lotuscars.com/en/news-articles/lotus...
So what do you think the appeal of this over the Alpine A110 will be?
Sounds like it'll be a similar product (relatively light, mid engined, 4 pot turbo, auto) but with more power (and likely weight?) at a higher price.
I guess the tie-up came too late, but they could have reskinned that and saved Geely a few quid.
Sounds like it'll be a similar product (relatively light, mid engined, 4 pot turbo, auto) but with more power (and likely weight?) at a higher price.
I guess the tie-up came too late, but they could have reskinned that and saved Geely a few quid.
Vee12V said:
It does not and I can't imagine there's a 'box available that can handle the power/torque.
Gearboxes are rated by torque only.Merc make unimogs and trucks, I'm pretty sure there's a gearbox with a rating big enough -- it's more finding one that's suitable for the installation.
The A45 engine/gearbox combination would need quite a bit of cooling. Anyone know what they weigh together?
I'd imagine we'd be looking at several rads just to support the motor (and presumably intercooler, oil cooler, gearbox cooler etc).
Edited to add: 161Kg dry for the engine only. So, not all that light...
Worth noting that the earlier linked Autocar article clearly states (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry-news/mercedes-benz-and-geely-co-operate-new-petrol-engines):
"Further details to the German-Sino co-operation remain under wraps, but Mercedes-Benz sources suggest the new four-cylinder would be used jointly by Mercedes-Benz and Geely as well as a number of Geely-owned brands, including Volvo, Lynk&Co, Proton and, possibly, Lotus."
The existing AMG unit isn't new, wouldn't be of much use to the other brands listed here, and furthermore AMG have a clear and longstanding policy of only building AMG engines themselves in Affalterbach.
"Further details to the German-Sino co-operation remain under wraps, but Mercedes-Benz sources suggest the new four-cylinder would be used jointly by Mercedes-Benz and Geely as well as a number of Geely-owned brands, including Volvo, Lynk&Co, Proton and, possibly, Lotus."
The existing AMG unit isn't new, wouldn't be of much use to the other brands listed here, and furthermore AMG have a clear and longstanding policy of only building AMG engines themselves in Affalterbach.
danp said:
So what do you think the appeal of this over the Alpine A110 will be?
Sounds like it'll be a similar product (relatively light, mid engined, 4 pot turbo, auto) but with more power (and likely weight?) at a higher price.
I guess the tie-up came too late, but they could have reskinned that and saved Geely a few quid.
Better styling, doesn't use an engine from a Renault Megane, more recognisable brand?Sounds like it'll be a similar product (relatively light, mid engined, 4 pot turbo, auto) but with more power (and likely weight?) at a higher price.
I guess the tie-up came too late, but they could have reskinned that and saved Geely a few quid.
Olivera said:
Worth noting that the earlier linked Autocar article clearly states (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry-news/mercedes-benz-and-geely-co-operate-new-petrol-engines):
"Further details to the German-Sino co-operation remain under wraps, but Mercedes-Benz sources suggest the new four-cylinder would be used jointly by Mercedes-Benz and Geely as well as a number of Geely-owned brands, including Volvo, Lynk&Co, Proton and, possibly, Lotus."
The existing AMG unit isn't new, wouldn't be of much use to the other brands listed here, and furthermore AMG have a clear and longstanding policy of only building AMG engines themselves in Affalterbach.
The A45 has had two models of 2.0 4-pot, the M133 and the M139. M139 is since 2019."Further details to the German-Sino co-operation remain under wraps, but Mercedes-Benz sources suggest the new four-cylinder would be used jointly by Mercedes-Benz and Geely as well as a number of Geely-owned brands, including Volvo, Lynk&Co, Proton and, possibly, Lotus."
The existing AMG unit isn't new, wouldn't be of much use to the other brands listed here, and furthermore AMG have a clear and longstanding policy of only building AMG engines themselves in Affalterbach.
Olivera said:
Worth noting that the earlier linked Autocar article clearly states (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry-news/mercedes-benz-and-geely-co-operate-new-petrol-engines):
"Further details to the German-Sino co-operation remain under wraps, but Mercedes-Benz sources suggest the new four-cylinder would be used jointly by Mercedes-Benz and Geely as well as a number of Geely-owned brands, including Volvo, Lynk&Co, Proton and, possibly, Lotus."
The existing AMG unit isn't new, wouldn't be of much use to the other brands listed here, and furthermore AMG have a clear and longstanding policy of only building AMG engines themselves in Affalterbach.
They build them for Aston now and I don't think a Lotus product is any kind of rival for anything Mercedes sell. Plus, Geely have a lot of weight in terms of Merc selling product in China. "Further details to the German-Sino co-operation remain under wraps, but Mercedes-Benz sources suggest the new four-cylinder would be used jointly by Mercedes-Benz and Geely as well as a number of Geely-owned brands, including Volvo, Lynk&Co, Proton and, possibly, Lotus."
The existing AMG unit isn't new, wouldn't be of much use to the other brands listed here, and furthermore AMG have a clear and longstanding policy of only building AMG engines themselves in Affalterbach.
If Lotus want to have products that justify the prices they charge then they do need to swerve the Alpine route of picking an engine from something deemed a sub brand.
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