RE: Lunaz completes world's first electric Bentley
Discussion
Maldini35 said:
That is true but that was 60 years ago when it was cutting edge tech (if not cutting edge, then contemporary).
In 2021, that wonderfully smooth and quiet powertrain, so lauded in 1960, is clearly is nothing of the sort when compared to an EV.
So now it has become something else. A historic artefact which has a fascination all of its own.
If owned an original Bentley like this I would marvel at the engineering. Endlessly tinkering in the garage. I'd probably spend far too long just looking at the engine. If you replaced it with a black box and bunch of batteries it would lose all of its charm as far as I'm concerned.
Some people might disagree and prefer the EV alternative but it's not so hard to understand my POV surely?
Your arguments are all very rational and you clearly know your science but a lot of us on here are more emotional beings. (for better or worse)
It's not that your POV is hard to understand. It isn't. It's that electrification of classics applies to such a small percentage of the classics in ownership that it's not worth getting in arms about. There are still plenty of Bentley S2s out there, and there always will be, with that creaky old V8 and partsbin GM hydramatic transmission.. The line to electrify them will be very small. Same with MGBs, Jags, Landies and all the other cars people are losing their minds about. In 2021, that wonderfully smooth and quiet powertrain, so lauded in 1960, is clearly is nothing of the sort when compared to an EV.
So now it has become something else. A historic artefact which has a fascination all of its own.
If owned an original Bentley like this I would marvel at the engineering. Endlessly tinkering in the garage. I'd probably spend far too long just looking at the engine. If you replaced it with a black box and bunch of batteries it would lose all of its charm as far as I'm concerned.
Some people might disagree and prefer the EV alternative but it's not so hard to understand my POV surely?
Your arguments are all very rational and you clearly know your science but a lot of us on here are more emotional beings. (for better or worse)
Even if half of them got electrified, which is a generous presumption in my opinion, that still leaves plenty of cars to tinker with.
Maldini35 said:
DonkeyApple said:
But the whole point of Bentley by 1960 was that you shouldn't either hear or feel them.
That is true but that was 60 years ago when it was cutting edge tech (if not cutting edge, then contemporary). In 2021, that wonderfully smooth and quiet powertrain, so lauded in 1960, is clearly is nothing of the sort when compared to an EV.
So now it has become something else. A historic artefact which has a fascination all of its own.
If owned an original Bentley like this I would marvel at the engineering. Endlessly tinkering in the garage. I'd probably spend far too long just looking at the engine. If you replaced it with a black box and bunch of batteries it would lose all of its charm as far as I'm concerned.
Some people might disagree and prefer the EV alternative but it's not so hard to understand my POV surely?
Your arguments are all very rational and you clearly know your science but a lot of us on here are more emotional beings. (for better or worse)
I had a car once that every Tom, Dick and Harry felt they had a right to tell me what I could and couldn't do with it. It sucked the pleasure out of using it so I sold it.
It's the people overreacting like old women that I have no time for. This is clearly a beautiful car that has been stunningly altered to fit a new owner's desires and I hope they enjoy every minute of it. And from my perspective, I suspect you will see it out and about more than it has been for years, if not decades.
bigothunter said:
Numeric said:
BlueComet said:
Ruined.
Genuine question - why? My uncle had a Barker Cloud and I never remember the engine being in any way noteworthy while the interior and shape - they were wonderful. virgilio said:
Firstly, EVs are cleaner than ICEVs only if used as dailies: this is more polluting than an existing flying spur which won‘t do more than 5000 miles a year.
Secondly, buliding this destroys an existing rare, wonderful, and historic vehicle.
As such, it is not only s
te, but it should also be forbidden fir damaging both the environment and an historically valuable monument.
It's not really true is it. Yes the EV will have greater battery manufacturing footprint, but it is still many, many times cleaner at point of use.Secondly, buliding this destroys an existing rare, wonderful, and historic vehicle.
As such, it is not only s
te, but it should also be forbidden fir damaging both the environment and an historically valuable monument.Edited by virgilio on Tuesday 2nd March 18:11
And afterwards, if the batteries are barely used, they can easily be swapped into another vehicle or battery device.
Heck, if it was V2G, it could sit in a private museum, plugged in providing grid support until the owner wants to simply unplug and take for a spin
Wheel_Turned_Out said:
It's not that your POV is hard to understand. It isn't. It's that electrification of classics applies to such a small percentage of the classics in ownership that it's not worth getting in arms about. There are still plenty of Bentley S2s out there, and there always will be, with that creaky old V8 and partsbin GM hydramatic transmission.. The line to electrify them will be very small. Same with MGBs, Jags, Landies and all the other cars people are losing their minds about.
Even if half of them got electrified, which is a generous presumption in my opinion, that still leaves plenty of cars to tinker with.
Of course it's not all the S2's in existence but that doesn't mean I have to like it.Even if half of them got electrified, which is a generous presumption in my opinion, that still leaves plenty of cars to tinker with.
You could paint over 10% of the canvases in the Louvre leaving 90% untouched but I still wouldn't be smiling.
I'm not losing my mind over it - just expressing my opinion that I think it's a crying shame.
98elise said:
Totally agree. I like EV's for everyday modern motoring, but don't ruin proper classics.
is taking a old not very good engine out and replacing it with a modern fuel injected engine ruining a classic?A Mk2 escort with a duratec is massively drooled over
As the duratec is way better than a s
tty old xflowSo is dropping an electric motor into a classic bentley ruining it?
same principle
Maldini35 said:
Of course it's not all the S2's in existence but that doesn't mean I have to like it.
You could paint over 10% of the canvases in the Louvre leaving 90% untouched but I still wouldn't be smiling.
I'm not losing my mind over it - just expressing my opinion that I think it's a crying shame.
That's not really a like for like simile though, is it? The art hasn't been defaced. It's more a case of the art being transplanted into a newer frame and you still not smiling because it's robbing someone of the joy of tinkering with and polishing the old one, even though the majority of other frames are still old. You could paint over 10% of the canvases in the Louvre leaving 90% untouched but I still wouldn't be smiling.
I'm not losing my mind over it - just expressing my opinion that I think it's a crying shame.
DonkeyApple said:
I completely agree. It's not hard to appreciate a sensible POV. As owners we are free change our cars to fit our needs and desires. It would be a shame if all of them were converted but that's not the case.
I had a car once that every Tom, Dick and Harry felt they had a right to tell me what I could and couldn't do with it. It sucked the pleasure out of using it so I sold it.
It's the people overreacting like old women that I have no time for. This is clearly a beautiful car that has been stunningly altered to fit a new owner's desires and I hope they enjoy every minute of it. And from my perspective, I suspect you will see it out and about more than it has been for years, if not decades.
Again, I'm not saying the owner hasn't got the right to do what they want to their own car. I had a car once that every Tom, Dick and Harry felt they had a right to tell me what I could and couldn't do with it. It sucked the pleasure out of using it so I sold it.
It's the people overreacting like old women that I have no time for. This is clearly a beautiful car that has been stunningly altered to fit a new owner's desires and I hope they enjoy every minute of it. And from my perspective, I suspect you will see it out and about more than it has been for years, if not decades.
I'm not starting a petition or tracking down the owner to try and change his/her mind.
I'm merely stating my opinion that I find it a shame.
Whether it's one car or a dozen, I still don't like it.
It doesn't bother you one way or another which is an equally valid opinion.
Edited by Maldini35 on Tuesday 2nd March 21:28
Edited by Maldini35 on Friday 5th March 09:28
Wheel_Turned_Out said:
That's not really a like for like simile though, is it? The art hasn't been defaced. It's more a case of the art being transplanted into a newer frame and you still not smiling because it's robbing someone of the joy of tinkering with and polishing the old one, even though the majority of other frames are still old.
I respectfully disagree.Ripping out the drivetrain goes way further and is defacing this car in my eyes.
I'm afraid nothing you can say will change my mind.
Maldini35 said:
Quisling said:
So you are dead against Mk2 escorts with anything other than a wheezy xflow?
Well I don't remember saying that.What I will say is I'm dead against ripping out the BDA and putting in an electric motor and a stack of batteries.
most had a wheezy xflow
so why is replacing a wheezy xflow with a durtec or a millington diamond different?
Maldini35 said:
I respectfully disagree.
Ripping out the drivetrain goes way further and is defacing this car in my eyes.
I'm afraid nothing you can say will change my mind.
I'm not trying to change your mind, just highlighting the other side of the argument. Ripping out the drivetrain goes way further and is defacing this car in my eyes.
I'm afraid nothing you can say will change my mind.
What about re-bodied Bentley tourers for example? There's almost none of them that are original left, many of them were re-bodied in the 70's or even later. Have rebuilt engines and gearboxes with new components as technology and manufacturing improves. I'm curious where the line is in terms of what's acceptable or not. Is it sheer originality? In which case many classics surely won't make the cut.
Quisling said:
Maldini35 said:
Quisling said:
So you are dead against Mk2 escorts with anything other than a wheezy xflow?
Well I don't remember saying that.What I will say is I'm dead against ripping out the BDA and putting in an electric motor and a stack of batteries.
most had a wheezy xflow
so why is replacing a wheezy xflow with a durtec or a millington diamond different?
I don't like the idea of gutting an S2 to make it an EV.
That doesn't mean I'm against all engine swaps. I never said that.
I don't live my life making binary decisions about everything.
For example:
I hate bananas. That doesn't mean I'm anti fruit. I really like apples.
You might love bananas and perhaps you cannot understand why I don't.
But with the best will in the world, you won't be able to persuade me to like bananas on an internet forum.
As it happens I'd love a Mk2 Escort with a Duratec - so long as a BDA wasn't junked to make way for it.
Edited by Maldini35 on Tuesday 2nd March 22:16
Maldini35 said:
Wheel_Turned_Out said:
That's not really a like for like simile though, is it? The art hasn't been defaced. It's more a case of the art being transplanted into a newer frame and you still not smiling because it's robbing someone of the joy of tinkering with and polishing the old one, even though the majority of other frames are still old.
I respectfully disagree.Ripping out the drivetrain goes way further and is defacing this car in my eyes.
I'm afraid nothing you can say will change my mind.
Or a 20 Year old Arnage ?
DonkeyApple said:
Maldini35 said:
DonkeyApple said:
But the whole point of Bentley by 1960 was that you shouldn't either hear or feel them.
That is true but that was 60 years ago when it was cutting edge tech (if not cutting edge, then contemporary). In 2021, that wonderfully smooth and quiet powertrain, so lauded in 1960, is clearly is nothing of the sort when compared to an EV.
So now it has become something else. A historic artefact which has a fascination all of its own.
If owned an original Bentley like this I would marvel at the engineering. Endlessly tinkering in the garage. I'd probably spend far too long just looking at the engine. If you replaced it with a black box and bunch of batteries it would lose all of its charm as far as I'm concerned.
Some people might disagree and prefer the EV alternative but it's not so hard to understand my POV surely?
Your arguments are all very rational and you clearly know your science but a lot of us on here are more emotional beings. (for better or worse)
I had a car once that every Tom, Dick and Harry felt they had a right to tell me what I could and couldn't do with it. It sucked the pleasure out of using it so I sold it.
It's the people overreacting like old women that I have no time for. This is clearly a beautiful car that has been stunningly altered to fit a new owner's desires and I hope they enjoy every minute of it. And from my perspective, I suspect you will see it out and about more than it has been for years, if not decades.
We can most certainly improve things by modernising them. It doesn't make them 'better' particularly those items and cultural norms which have meaning beyond their mechanics.
I wouldn't be overjoyed with someone straightening stone henge so that in every measurable way it is 'improved'
It is both the delight and curse of the human condition.
The hope for e fuels despite your educated, (and mildly patronising) emotionless responses are in order to abide by new norms whilst maintaining history/elements of our culture within new norms. That cannot be done with electric power replacing ice.
I'd also suggest eradicating existing infrastructure to Convert to a different energy source is deeply inefficient and fundamentally flawed. But then again what do I know, we were told diesel was the answer 15 years ago..... And green tariffs don't magic electrons from wind turbines in the North Sea to Wiltshire despite what people hope..
Edited by FaustF on Tuesday 2nd March 22:23
J4CKO said:
Maldini35 said:
Wheel_Turned_Out said:
That's not really a like for like simile though, is it? The art hasn't been defaced. It's more a case of the art being transplanted into a newer frame and you still not smiling because it's robbing someone of the joy of tinkering with and polishing the old one, even though the majority of other frames are still old.
I respectfully disagree.Ripping out the drivetrain goes way further and is defacing this car in my eyes.
I'm afraid nothing you can say will change my mind.
Or a 20 Year old Arnage ?
What if it was a Le Mans winning Ferrari 250LM? Or a 2001 Nissan Micra? Or a 964?
There is no absolute rule and we're not in a court of law - well I hope not
I just hate the idea of an S2 Bentley being messed about with to fit an EV drivetrain.
When I was a kid, one of my best friends dad drove an S2 as his daily.
He'd occasionally give us a lift to the pub in it. I've loved them ever since.
However, I do agree with DonkeyApple that it is the owners prerogative to do with their cars as they please.
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