Modifying to be illegal?

[HazzaT]

NMNeil said:

Note the magic word 'software'
"a specific offence for supplying, installing and/or advertising, a ‘tampering product’ for a vehicle or NRMM – this would apply where a principal effect of the product is to bypass, defeat, reduce the effectiveness of or render inoperative a system, part or component (the product may be a physical part or component, hardware and/or software)"

What gets 'bypassed, defeated, reduced in effectiveness of or rendered inoperative' by a remap? Tuning boxes bypass certain ECU readings, so they would count, but a remap doesn't.

[Plymo]

My response was along the lines of:

Our existing laws and regulations are sufficient and already make dangerous or polluting modifications illegal. They are often badly enforced. It would be much better to use the resources to enforce the laws we already have rather than create more, that will have the same patchy, inconsistent and ineffective enforcement - but with added unintended consequences.

[SidewaysSi]

tomic said:

DodgyGeezer said:

tomic said:

MercScot said:

Jazoli said:

Are you a bit short on brain matter? this will apply to all vehicles, not just motorcycles.

Thank fk for that, no more Saxo's with dustbin exhausts either - bring it on!

Agreed - needs to be applied retrospectively as well

so....

- no parking sensors/cameras
- no aftermarket ICE
- no 'idiot gauges'
- only the exact tyres supplied with the car
- do you really want Audi's chocolate wheels as your only choice (especially with the state of our roads)?
- no winter wheels/tyres
- no improved oil/air filters
- up-spec to leather/heated/cooled/massage seats? Sorry, es ist verboten!
- no personalisation of your car (not a fan of eye-lashes or pixie dust - but if people want 'em....)
- dealerships only for service and repair (and supply of new parts)

what happens when the OEM decides they no longer want to manufacture/store/supply OEM parts? Bin and buy new? Very ecologically sound, albeit great for the OEM!

As I understand it a lot of the pop-pop-bang-bang st is actually standard from the factory so the control freaks/idiots on here would still hear that fkwittery going on - it would be allowed.....

I can honestly say that I’ve never bought anything on your list. My Lexus LS has every possible option including cameras and sensors and is dealer serviced. Got a specialist to fit a Tyre Pressure Sensor once, but that’s it. My E30 BMW is so standard it even still has it’s original dealer fitted Blaupunkt tape player. Never bought winter tyres or been stuck without them, never bought an idiot gauge, or an aftermarket filter, and all my tyres are decent brands. Bet I’m not in a minority either.

Would love to see other E30 owners remove their mods though.

What an odd attitude. Why would you "love to see other E30 owners remove their mods"?

So you are happy to drive around in a car that's a bit cack? Fair enough if you don't know or appreciate the difference but others may care more about how their cars drive than you do.

[Terminator X]

I read this as a means to push through autonomous vehicles and an attempt to stop hackers meddling with the software? Doesn't seem to be mechanical mods as far as I can see.

TX.

[anonymous-user]

HazzaT said:

What gets 'bypassed, defeated, reduced in effectiveness of or rendered inoperative' by a remap?

The exhausts aftertreatment. A remap causes the vehicle to emit higher levels of pollution.

[DodgyGeezer]

Max_Torque said:

The exhausts aftertreatment. A remap causes the vehicle to emit higher levels of pollution.

If it's within legal limits - who cares?

[otolith]

HazzaT said:

What gets 'bypassed, defeated, reduced in effectiveness of or rendered inoperative' by a remap? Tuning boxes bypass certain ECU readings, so they would count, but a remap doesn't.

The calibration which keeps emissions of particulates and oxides of nitrogen within type approval limits?

[kambites]

DodgyGeezer said:

Max_Torque said:

The exhausts aftertreatment. A remap causes the vehicle to emit higher levels of pollution.

If it's within legal limits - who cares?

How would you ever know if it's within legal limits? The MoT certainly doesn't tell you. Given how stringent and complex type approval emissions limits are these days, and how much difficult manufacturers have getting their cars to adhere, I think it almost inconceivable that a third-party remap is going to maintain compliance.

Edited by kambites on Friday 22 October 07:37

[Tlandcruiser]

BuzzBravado said:

Sounds like the recent or current attempt to ban pattern parts and force people to use expensive OEM parts.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-9...

No doubt with the move to EV, manufacturers will
Be selling less parts etc and after sales take up a large chunk of their profits. The car manufacturers have been busy lobbying their respective governments etc. The EU will listen because they employ 1000s or people

Edited by Tlandcruiser on Friday 22 October 07:56

[Gad-Westy]

kambites said:

bigothunter said:

Aftermarket parts with specified manufacturing quality control?

No idea, but there have been numerous failures of the OEM rear track-rods on the Elise and none of the main after-market suppliers that I am aware of.

This is the trouble with using 'good quality control' as the only yard stick. I have no doubt at all that the quality control was absolutely fine on Lotus' supplier of toe link components but it was a fundamentally weak design in the first place. Aftermarket suppliers have simply beefed it up in various ways. I'm sure they have none of the same quality practices in place that come with volume supply but I'd much rather have a that than well controlled manufacture of sub standard parts.

[andrebar]

DodgyGeezer said:

If it's within legal limits - who cares?

The government does. From their perspective enforcing a ban on anything non-standard is far easier than policing the impact of allowing us any freedom to tinker with stuff.

[Gad-Westy]

Dog Star said:

KTMsm said:

WTF

You want to ban everything because you are so affected by noise, yet you have modified your bike to make more noise

That is the most idiotic post I've ever seen

I haven't modified anything to make more noise, and I never would. I'm not an antisocial tt.

My bike came like that brand new.

Maybe I'm missing a whoosh parrot or two here. Are you saying the actual noise level is not the issue, it's just whether or not it came like that from the factory? So if you choose a noisy exhaust, you're the devil, but if you choose a vehicle with a noisy exhaust, all is well with the world?

[Baldchap]

Gad-Westy said:

Dog Star said:

KTMsm said:

WTF

You want to ban everything because you are so affected by noise, yet you have modified your bike to make more noise

That is the most idiotic post I've ever seen

I haven't modified anything to make more noise, and I never would. I'm not an antisocial tt.

My bike came like that brand new.

Maybe I'm missing a whoosh parrot or two here. Are you saying the actual noise level is not the issue, it's just whether or not it came like that from the factory? So if you choose a noisy exhaust, you're the devil, but if you choose a vehicle with a noisy exhaust, all is well with the world?

You've got to wonder whether some people are playing with a full deck, haven't you?

[GranpaB]

Baldchap said:

Gad-Westy said:

Dog Star said:

KTMsm said:

WTF

You want to ban everything because you are so affected by noise, yet you have modified your bike to make more noise

That is the most idiotic post I've ever seen

I haven't modified anything to make more noise, and I never would. I'm not an antisocial tt.

My bike came like that brand new.

Maybe I'm missing a whoosh parrot or two here. Are you saying the actual noise level is not the issue, it's just whether or not it came like that from the factory? So if you choose a noisy exhaust, you're the devil, but if you choose a vehicle with a noisy exhaust, all is well with the world?

You've got to wonder whether some people are playing with a full deck, haven't you?

I guess It is supplied like it brand new from the manufacturer, which from what i understand, this law is about removing OEM stuff?

[SidewaysSi]

Gad-Westy said:

kambites said:

bigothunter said:

Aftermarket parts with specified manufacturing quality control?

No idea, but there have been numerous failures of the OEM rear track-rods on the Elise and none of the main after-market suppliers that I am aware of.

This is the trouble with using 'good quality control' as the only yard stick. I have no doubt at all that the quality control was absolutely fine on Lotus' supplier of toe link components but it was a fundamentally weak design in the first place. Aftermarket suppliers have simply beefed it up in various ways. I'm sure they have none of the same quality practices in place that come with volume supply but I'd much rather have a that than well controlled manufacture of sub standard parts.

Exactly. You have to have a screw loose to think OEM parts are always the best and don't fail.

I wouldn't go on track in an Elise with standard toe links. Everyone knows you need to upgrade them as a matter of course.

[Baldchap]

GranpaB said:

Baldchap said:

Gad-Westy said:

Dog Star said:

KTMsm said:

WTF

You want to ban everything because you are so affected by noise, yet you have modified your bike to make more noise

That is the most idiotic post I've ever seen

I haven't modified anything to make more noise, and I never would. I'm not an antisocial tt.

My bike came like that brand new.

Maybe I'm missing a whoosh parrot or two here. Are you saying the actual noise level is not the issue, it's just whether or not it came like that from the factory? So if you choose a noisy exhaust, you're the devil, but if you choose a vehicle with a noisy exhaust, all is well with the world?

You've got to wonder whether some people are playing with a full deck, haven't you?

I guess It is supplied like it brand new from the manufacturer, which from what i understand, this law is about removing OEM stuff?

The guy claimed he hated s with loud exhausts and people who fit loud exhausts, but then said he has one (and the standard bike is pretty loud beforehand) but it happened to be a manufacturer fit one so his isn't a problem, but everyone else (including some other OEM fit ones mentioned earlier by him) is a and should be banned from having them.

The mental gymnastics are quite spectacular, really.

[InitialDave]

SidewaysSi said:

I wouldn't stay on track in an Elise with standard toe links.

[PartsMonkey]

KTMsm said:

I agree lowering excessively and massive camber are silly but too many get into the mindset that OEM is best - no OEM is whoever could make the cheapest parts to the spec at the time, that has to work for all customers and in all areas - if can be improved upon

OEM is why the Haldex and rear diff in the Freelander routinely st themselves every few years. Taking away the opportunity to fit upgraded and reinforced parts to prevent further issues would be a massive ball ache

[DonkeyApple]

This will be more related to preventing the computers being messed with on vehicles when they eventually come off the manufacturer's books. There's lots of tech looming to restrict how cars can be used and 'they' don't want these cars, once old enough, having that tech disabled.

A key risk would seem to be that the manufacturer would have even greater control over obsolescence given that the after market solutions to keep a car moving will have been locked out?

[bigothunter]

InitialDave said:

SidewaysSi said:

I wouldn't stay on track in an Elise with standard toe links.

Colin Chapman's cars always fell to bits. Lotus heritage lives on