RE: All-time best BMW M car - the results!
Discussion
Chunkychucky said:
When was SMG ever fantastic? Even when released I couldn't understand BMW using SMG in the M3 CSL, makes even less sense now with people who own them converting them to manuals.
"Exciting, raw, and you actually need to drive it" - are you aware of the 'manual gearbox'?
Jeez. "Exciting, raw, and you actually need to drive it" - are you aware of the 'manual gearbox'?
When you learnt to embrace it and work with it to finesse what was in some ways a flawed concept.
Here's my list of car owned to date :
Mk1 Escort Mexico (1st car)
Chevette HS
Opel Ascona 400
E30 M3 Evo 2
Sapphire Cosworth 2WD
VR6 Golf Highline
E36 M3 Saloon
Impreza 22B One of 16 UK cars
964 RS Midnight Blue
964 RS Guards Red
993 RS Guards Red
Impreza P1
Mk1 996 GT3 Zanzibar
964 RS Rubystone
996 GT2 Midnight Blue
Gen 1997 GT3 Meteor Grey
Subaru Impreza WRC car (the 2nd WRC car Prodrive built)
Mk1 996 GT3 Zanzibar (I bought it back ! !)
M3 CSL
996 GT2 Basalt Black (Ohlins, remap, Ruf exhaust)
996 GT3 RS White with Red
Gen 1 997 GT3 Slate Grey
1M Coupe Orange
1M Coupe White AP's, Sparco race seats install, decat, custom geo set up.
964 RS Ferrari Yellow
Mk1 996 GT3 Black with custom built Ohlins 3 way adjustable remote cannister dampers, Clubsport cage, Manthey K400 engine conversion etc
E63 M6 V10 Coupe Silver Grey (what else ?)
987 Cayman R Guards red
Mk1 996 GT3 (yet another Zanzibar car) fitted with a 997 Cup engine tweaked to 465 hp.
On the basis of the list above, I think it's fair to say I like, enjoy and "get" a manual 'box as much as the next man. But, and it's a huge but (almost on par with one K Kardashian's) I NEVER once in 30+K miles returned from a hoon/thrash in the CSL and thought "Shame, that would have been SO much better/more fun if it had been a manual 'box". That says as much about the intrinsic "rightness" of the CSL as a package as it does the SMG gearbox.
Chunkychucky said:
jonnyfive said:
I like the way the e46 …. ‘The more desirable manual box’
Except csl sits at the top and was ONLY available with the smg box.
Smg is still fantastic. Exciting, raw, and you actually need to drive it, you still need to learn to drive an smg, there is interest, something to do….. Not like a duel clutch
When was SMG ever fantastic? Even when released I couldn't understand BMW using SMG in the M3 CSL, makes even less sense now with people who own them converting them to manuals.Except csl sits at the top and was ONLY available with the smg box.
Smg is still fantastic. Exciting, raw, and you actually need to drive it, you still need to learn to drive an smg, there is interest, something to do….. Not like a duel clutch
"Exciting, raw, and you actually need to drive it" - are you aware of the 'manual gearbox'?
Slippydiff said:
Chunkychucky said:
When was SMG ever fantastic? Even when released I couldn't understand BMW using SMG in the M3 CSL, makes even less sense now with people who own them converting them to manuals.
"Exciting, raw, and you actually need to drive it" - are you aware of the 'manual gearbox'?
Jeez. "Exciting, raw, and you actually need to drive it" - are you aware of the 'manual gearbox'?
When you learnt to embrace it and work with it to finesse what was in some ways a flawed concept.
Here's my list of car owned to date :
Mk1 Escort Mexico (1st car)
Chevette HS
Opel Ascona 400
E30 M3 Evo 2
Sapphire Cosworth 2WD
VR6 Golf Highline
E36 M3 Saloon
Impreza 22B One of 16 UK cars
964 RS Midnight Blue
964 RS Guards Red
993 RS Guards Red
Impreza P1
Mk1 996 GT3 Zanzibar
964 RS Rubystone
996 GT2 Midnight Blue
Gen 1997 GT3 Meteor Grey
Subaru Impreza WRC car (the 2nd WRC car Prodrive built)
Mk1 996 GT3 Zanzibar (I bought it back ! !)
M3 CSL
996 GT2 Basalt Black (Ohlins, remap, Ruf exhaust)
996 GT3 RS White with Red
Gen 1 997 GT3 Slate Grey
1M Coupe Orange
1M Coupe White AP's, Sparco race seats install, decat, custom geo set up.
964 RS Ferrari Yellow
Mk1 996 GT3 Black with custom built Ohlins 3 way adjustable remote cannister dampers, Clubsport cage, Manthey K400 engine conversion etc
E63 M6 V10 Coupe Silver Grey (what else ?)
987 Cayman R Guards red
Mk1 996 GT3 (yet another Zanzibar car) fitted with a 997 Cup engine tweaked to 465 hp.
On the basis of the list above, I think it's fair to say I like, enjoy and "get" a manual 'box as much as the next man. But, and it's a huge but (almost on par with one K Kardashian's) I NEVER once in 30+K miles returned from a hoon/thrash in the CSL and thought "Shame, that would have been SO much better/more fun if it had been a manual 'box". That says as much about the intrinsic "rightness" of the CSL as a package as it does the SMG gearbox.
This is, however , a thread about the best M cars .... and that , for me , would exclude anything with SMG .
ds666 said:
Impressive list of cars owned - bit stuck in a 911 grove thou , lol
This is, however , a thread about the best M cars .... and that , for me , would exclude anything with SMG .
Stuck in a 911 grove. i only count 5 different variants of 911 and 5 different M cars. Not going to waste my time writing about SMGThis is, however , a thread about the best M cars .... and that , for me , would exclude anything with SMG .
HokumPokum said:
smg in CSL is not drivable in auto mode.....
hence it is a manual box...... you can shift it with the lever or with paddles. You just can't use the clutch
Man, these cars are valued.......
But you really need to push them on track with around 2.5 degrees of camber
I should really retire my CSL from track use and get a new shell without the welded in full roll cage.
Mine has no AC, no stereo, no parking sensors and no bixenons....all you hear is that buzzing angry engine... ALL THE TIME.
2.5 camber is very timid, for MacPherson strut car. You want proper -4 or more.hence it is a manual box...... you can shift it with the lever or with paddles. You just can't use the clutch
Man, these cars are valued.......
But you really need to push them on track with around 2.5 degrees of camber
I should really retire my CSL from track use and get a new shell without the welded in full roll cage.
Mine has no AC, no stereo, no parking sensors and no bixenons....all you hear is that buzzing angry engine... ALL THE TIME.
DTM or Team Shirmer Nordschleife btg attack setup.
Edited by kars on Monday 25th April 15:40
ecs0set said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I've only had one car in the top ten(E92 M3)...
Nice, how did you find the power delivery of the S65? I've read somewhere that they lack a bit of torque low down?
Thanks for making me smile!
trawler said:
ds666 said:
Impressive list of cars owned - bit stuck in a 911 grove thou , lol
This is, however , a thread about the best M cars .... and that , for me , would exclude anything with SMG .
Stuck in a 911 grove. i only count 5 different variants of 911 and 5 different M cars. Not going to waste my time writing about SMGThis is, however , a thread about the best M cars .... and that , for me , would exclude anything with SMG .
ds666 said:
This is, however , a thread about the best M cars .... and that , for me , would exclude anything with SMG .
I always think that it is a difficult one with BMW gearboxes, because as a general rule most of their 3 pedal manuals are a bit crap in fairness. So I can definitely see why the DCT and ZF8 gearboxes have become really popular. I don't have any experience with the SMG, but I've read many times in car magazines that it isn't all that though. However I'd like to try it for myself to see whether it is good or bad.
For all those people with the Pros/Cons of the SMG gearbox in the CSL.
Given that the gearbox is the same in both, there is an option to convert the SMG to a manual and it's easy enough to preserve all the parts and convert back if necessary. Given the price of them, if you really want one, but it has to manual, then the option is there for an extra 4-5k? And you don't loose the desirability as it can be converted back easily enough as well.
But I'm sure most people know that.
P.S. I've not driven either and the closest I ever came to an M car was a manual e34 535i Sport, but that would have been some 100bhp down on the equivalent e34 M5, which would be my first lottery win car.
Given that the gearbox is the same in both, there is an option to convert the SMG to a manual and it's easy enough to preserve all the parts and convert back if necessary. Given the price of them, if you really want one, but it has to manual, then the option is there for an extra 4-5k? And you don't loose the desirability as it can be converted back easily enough as well.
But I'm sure most people know that.
P.S. I've not driven either and the closest I ever came to an M car was a manual e34 535i Sport, but that would have been some 100bhp down on the equivalent e34 M5, which would be my first lottery win car.
Olivera said:
I always liked the super limited E92 M3 CRT, 4.4 litre stroker from the factory:
I had a bit of a look around one of these in Munich a good few years ago, and it seemed a fantastic bit of kit. Less showy than the E92 GTS sitting beside it at the time, and more desirable for mecerb4.5lee said:
ecs0set said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I've only had one car in the top ten(E92 M3)...
Nice, how did you find the power delivery of the S65? I've read somewhere that they lack a bit of torque low down?Thanks for making me smile!
Slippydiff said:
ds666 said:
Impressive list of cars owned - bit stuck in a 911 grove thou , lol
This is, however , a thread about the best M cars .... and that , for me , would exclude anything with SMG .
Congratulations, you’ve missed the point of that specific post entirely. This is, however , a thread about the best M cars .... and that , for me , would exclude anything with SMG .
I've had 8 M cars and currently have a car that has the same box and automation as a 360 - that box isn't very good either .
MikeM6 said:
ds666 said:
I must have done . Was it that you've had a lot of 911's?
I've had 8 M cars and currently have a car that has the same box and automation as a 360 - that box isn't very good either .
Maserati?I've had 8 M cars and currently have a car that has the same box and automation as a 360 - that box isn't very good either .
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