RE: 2023 Range Rover Sport | PH Review
Discussion
TUS373 said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I still really like them though! 
I'm just hoping that they don't leave you stranded by the side of the road...like most of the JLR cars do though.
But have no fear. They have fixed this. With over 100 patents. This including a simulated recovery truck and over the air repairs.I'm just hoping that they don't leave you stranded by the side of the road...like most of the JLR cars do though.
Jon556 said:
You’ve bigged it up - telling us the numbers of years and introduced another person - but it’s not convincing.
Reliability is about making the same product up to a standard again and again. Of course you are going to have ones that are fine. Thousands are. It’s the probability of finding one to at isn’t, and that’s what LR isn’t good at - it’s been documented - consistently making the same product up to a standard. Your tiny slice of a relative handful of their products is not a reflection on the reliability of a model or brand - in the same way someone’s unreliable RR isn’t. The chances are you probably would get a good one but there are more than many other brands, Germans included, that are duffers.
Your view, strangely, is at odds with LR themselves as they’ve not only admitted their quality, they’re going to do something about it. Odd that.
I think that what he is trying to say is that the experience of one individual is not statistically valid.Reliability is about making the same product up to a standard again and again. Of course you are going to have ones that are fine. Thousands are. It’s the probability of finding one to at isn’t, and that’s what LR isn’t good at - it’s been documented - consistently making the same product up to a standard. Your tiny slice of a relative handful of their products is not a reflection on the reliability of a model or brand - in the same way someone’s unreliable RR isn’t. The chances are you probably would get a good one but there are more than many other brands, Germans included, that are duffers.
Your view, strangely, is at odds with LR themselves as they’ve not only admitted their quality, they’re going to do something about it. Odd that.
We are getting the same spec as the burgundy coloured one in the feature in 2 weeks.
Was a pre order spec and was a nice gesture from our dealer until our order for the bigger one arrives.
Never had a RR before, but looking forward to them.
Not really interested in jd power surveys or someone else's experience; will judge it on my experience.
I've had 4 yrs of McLarens; if I had listened to the horror stories about them I would of denied myself of great fun and fantastic cars.
Was a pre order spec and was a nice gesture from our dealer until our order for the bigger one arrives.
Never had a RR before, but looking forward to them.
Not really interested in jd power surveys or someone else's experience; will judge it on my experience.
I've had 4 yrs of McLarens; if I had listened to the horror stories about them I would of denied myself of great fun and fantastic cars.
DP14 said:
thompson9745 said:
Am loving the "it's only infotainment so is not really a problem" line, if I'd spent 100k+ on a new car and the fecking infotainment kept crapping out to go back to the dealer I'd be just as pissed as if it went back for a new engine!
As for "customer opinion so subjective" wtaf? Customer satisfaction is the gold standard metric across the entire industry!
The spin is impressive, must be the JLR press department in full flow...
Warrantywise published its 'Reliability Index' a short while ago. Land Rover took the 1st and 3rd positions for least reliable with further 'class wins' for the Discovery, Discovery Sport and Evoque - https://www.driving.co.uk/news/range-rover-is-uks-most-unreliable-used-car-with-poor-showings-from-porsche-and-bmw-too/As for "customer opinion so subjective" wtaf? Customer satisfaction is the gold standard metric across the entire industry!
The spin is impressive, must be the JLR press department in full flow...
Now we go over to the apologists for the excuses...
But clearly as all these surveys are flawed, coming last each time in every one over so many years is just meaningless…
DP14 said:
thompson9745 said:
Am loving the "it's only infotainment so is not really a problem" line, if I'd spent 100k+ on a new car and the fecking infotainment kept crapping out to go back to the dealer I'd be just as pissed as if it went back for a new engine!
As for "customer opinion so subjective" wtaf? Customer satisfaction is the gold standard metric across the entire industry!
The spin is impressive, must be the JLR press department in full flow...
Warrantywise published its 'Reliability Index' a short while ago. Land Rover took the 1st and 3rd positions for least reliable with further 'class wins' for the Discovery, Discovery Sport and Evoque - https://www.driving.co.uk/news/range-rover-is-uks-most-unreliable-used-car-with-poor-showings-from-porsche-and-bmw-too/As for "customer opinion so subjective" wtaf? Customer satisfaction is the gold standard metric across the entire industry!
The spin is impressive, must be the JLR press department in full flow...
Now we go over to the apologists for the excuses...
I worked at Triumph, and the customer clinics were always fascinating. We’d get a load of BMW owners in to give their feedback on what the liked about various brands (including BMW). This included reliability. Pretty much all of the BMW owners perceived their bike as being super reliable and Triumph always struggled with a (completely wrong) perception of fragility. The perception question was then followed up with direct questioning which included a number of known faults with BMWs. Many of the owners had had these faults but still rated their bike as reliable as ‘it was only the usual stuff’. Some of these issues were quite serious and yet they still reckoned BMWs were the most reliable bikes you could buy…
The biggest issue I see is poor issue resolution by dealers and a general arrogance in their interactions.
Don’t like the results…? First of all blame the survey for having the wrong classification of faults then blame the customers, as they’re too thick to simply reset the infotainment (although quite what resetting one on a focus has to do with it I don’t know), or their perception is just plain wrong! Hilarious.
It can’t possibly be the product…
It can’t possibly be the product…
DP14 said:
Wheelspinning said:
Not really interested in jd power surveys or someone else's experience; will judge it on my experience.
Yet interested enough to point out you're not interested in them 
I also validated it with another brand I own that plenty of posters whom have never had one and never will, but jump on the bandwagon of making negative posts about how unreliable they are just like here with Range Rover.
Can I ask what your bring to the thread?
Wheelspinning said:
DP14 said:
Wheelspinning said:
Not really interested in jd power surveys or someone else's experience; will judge it on my experience.
Yet interested enough to point out you're not interested in them I also validated it with another brand I own that plenty of posters whom have never had one and never will, but jump on the bandwagon of making negative posts about how unreliable they are just like here with Range Rover.
Can I ask what your bring to the thread?
john41901 said:
Don’t like the results…? First of all blame the survey for having the wrong classification of faults then blame the customers, as they’re too thick to simply reset the infotainment (although quite what resetting one on a focus has to do with it I don’t know), or their perception is just plain wrong! Hilarious.
It can’t possibly be the product…
I think you’re looking too hard for a reason to disagree with me. I’m not actually disagreeing with you! It’s totally fine that you have a different perception of what annoys you about a car. That’s the point of surveys. There’s no wrong and no right when it comes to saying something is a fault or not.It can’t possibly be the product…
Would you for instance notice that the stability control has a reference speed issue and gives me a false traction control intervention in the same place every day? Probably not.
Have a bit of an understanding that peoples experiences of cars isn’t always black and white and preconceptions (as seen regularly on here) can completely change how people report issues.
As an example….do you think Porsche’s are more or less reliable than LR’s?
minghis said:
I can offer a recent, real example of RR ownership and the frustrations associated with it.
FFRR D300 Westminster Black, bought as an ex demo 7 months ago. As new, lovely looking thing, just over 1000 miles. LR Main dealer.
The memory settings on the seat didn't work, the tailgate didn't fit properly, a wheel was damaged and had to be replaced. The kick thing to open the tailgate only worked sometimes. Then the infotainment screens either froze, failed, or flashed on and off.
Dealer always had a minimum wait of 2 weeks from being told of a fault to getting it booked in. They would not have it in to check something (it may have just been a reset of the screens) saying they did not have the time. When they had it it seemed to take an age to fix things. Daft excuses like they couldn't fix the memory button until they got another car of the same model to compare it to (?).
V5 didn't turn up. I called, they told me it had been sent. I called again, same story. It never arrived for 3 months. Then I was told by someone who knows this is a common thing, they weren't supposed to sell a demo for 6 months. I called the sales manager and he admitted this, apologising for having not told me this on 3 previous occasions when I chased it.
Dealer told me to call LR assistance for the flashing and frozen infotainment screens but they would not call to look at it unless the car could not be driven. It could be driven, but with no heating, radio, sat nav, phone or other settings. It would be stuck on what was on it when it froze. Not ideal, but to be fair, it was driveable.
The problem was after spending £90k on a car I would have hoped if it had a fault the least they could do would be to have it in to assess whether it was simple to fix (reset, update) but no, it was always it had to be booked in and it was never a wait of less than 2 weeks. And they lied about the V5. The seat memory button never did get fixed, they said it was the way I was pressing it.
They bought it back and I have gone to Mercedes.
I swapped a faultless Bentayga for a D300 FFRR. A, turned into 3 as the first two, with under 5k on the clock, both developed "catastrophic engine faults".FFRR D300 Westminster Black, bought as an ex demo 7 months ago. As new, lovely looking thing, just over 1000 miles. LR Main dealer.
The memory settings on the seat didn't work, the tailgate didn't fit properly, a wheel was damaged and had to be replaced. The kick thing to open the tailgate only worked sometimes. Then the infotainment screens either froze, failed, or flashed on and off.
Dealer always had a minimum wait of 2 weeks from being told of a fault to getting it booked in. They would not have it in to check something (it may have just been a reset of the screens) saying they did not have the time. When they had it it seemed to take an age to fix things. Daft excuses like they couldn't fix the memory button until they got another car of the same model to compare it to (?).
V5 didn't turn up. I called, they told me it had been sent. I called again, same story. It never arrived for 3 months. Then I was told by someone who knows this is a common thing, they weren't supposed to sell a demo for 6 months. I called the sales manager and he admitted this, apologising for having not told me this on 3 previous occasions when I chased it.
Dealer told me to call LR assistance for the flashing and frozen infotainment screens but they would not call to look at it unless the car could not be driven. It could be driven, but with no heating, radio, sat nav, phone or other settings. It would be stuck on what was on it when it froze. Not ideal, but to be fair, it was driveable.
The problem was after spending £90k on a car I would have hoped if it had a fault the least they could do would be to have it in to assess whether it was simple to fix (reset, update) but no, it was always it had to be booked in and it was never a wait of less than 2 weeks. And they lied about the V5. The seat memory button never did get fixed, they said it was the way I was pressing it.
They bought it back and I have gone to Mercedes.
This was on top of the constant electrical niggles.
My latest one has recently decided the boot wouldn't close or lock. 3 weeks to book it in to be looked at.
Before I got it, I asked a very sensible family friend who has had FFs for decades what the score was: "Let me tell you a secret, I have another car I bought for when they're at the garage".
A very good friend works at JLR HQ; I asked them recently if things internally were as much of a shambles as the cars and dealers...."worse" was the answer.
So I've bought another Bentayga.
Problem is, I secretly love the chaos of the Rangey that I've decided to keep that too. Must be a massochist or something.
Saweep said:
minghis said:
I can offer a recent, real example of RR ownership and the frustrations associated with it.
FFRR D300 Westminster Black, bought as an ex demo 7 months ago. As new, lovely looking thing, just over 1000 miles. LR Main dealer.
The memory settings on the seat didn't work, the tailgate didn't fit properly, a wheel was damaged and had to be replaced. The kick thing to open the tailgate only worked sometimes. Then the infotainment screens either froze, failed, or flashed on and off.
Dealer always had a minimum wait of 2 weeks from being told of a fault to getting it booked in. They would not have it in to check something (it may have just been a reset of the screens) saying they did not have the time. When they had it it seemed to take an age to fix things. Daft excuses like they couldn't fix the memory button until they got another car of the same model to compare it to (?).
V5 didn't turn up. I called, they told me it had been sent. I called again, same story. It never arrived for 3 months. Then I was told by someone who knows this is a common thing, they weren't supposed to sell a demo for 6 months. I called the sales manager and he admitted this, apologising for having not told me this on 3 previous occasions when I chased it.
Dealer told me to call LR assistance for the flashing and frozen infotainment screens but they would not call to look at it unless the car could not be driven. It could be driven, but with no heating, radio, sat nav, phone or other settings. It would be stuck on what was on it when it froze. Not ideal, but to be fair, it was driveable.
The problem was after spending £90k on a car I would have hoped if it had a fault the least they could do would be to have it in to assess whether it was simple to fix (reset, update) but no, it was always it had to be booked in and it was never a wait of less than 2 weeks. And they lied about the V5. The seat memory button never did get fixed, they said it was the way I was pressing it.
They bought it back and I have gone to Mercedes.
I swapped a faultless Bentayga for a D300 FFRR. A, turned into 3 as the first two, with under 5k on the clock, both developed "catastrophic engine faults".FFRR D300 Westminster Black, bought as an ex demo 7 months ago. As new, lovely looking thing, just over 1000 miles. LR Main dealer.
The memory settings on the seat didn't work, the tailgate didn't fit properly, a wheel was damaged and had to be replaced. The kick thing to open the tailgate only worked sometimes. Then the infotainment screens either froze, failed, or flashed on and off.
Dealer always had a minimum wait of 2 weeks from being told of a fault to getting it booked in. They would not have it in to check something (it may have just been a reset of the screens) saying they did not have the time. When they had it it seemed to take an age to fix things. Daft excuses like they couldn't fix the memory button until they got another car of the same model to compare it to (?).
V5 didn't turn up. I called, they told me it had been sent. I called again, same story. It never arrived for 3 months. Then I was told by someone who knows this is a common thing, they weren't supposed to sell a demo for 6 months. I called the sales manager and he admitted this, apologising for having not told me this on 3 previous occasions when I chased it.
Dealer told me to call LR assistance for the flashing and frozen infotainment screens but they would not call to look at it unless the car could not be driven. It could be driven, but with no heating, radio, sat nav, phone or other settings. It would be stuck on what was on it when it froze. Not ideal, but to be fair, it was driveable.
The problem was after spending £90k on a car I would have hoped if it had a fault the least they could do would be to have it in to assess whether it was simple to fix (reset, update) but no, it was always it had to be booked in and it was never a wait of less than 2 weeks. And they lied about the V5. The seat memory button never did get fixed, they said it was the way I was pressing it.
They bought it back and I have gone to Mercedes.
This was on top of the constant electrical niggles.
My latest one has recently decided the boot wouldn't close or lock. 3 weeks to book it in to be looked at.
Before I got it, I asked a very sensible family friend who has had FFs for decades what the score was: "Let me tell you a secret, I have another car I bought for when they're at the garage".
A very good friend works at JLR HQ; I asked them recently if things internally were as much of a shambles as the cars and dealers...."worse" was the answer.
So I've bought another Bentayga.
Problem is, I secretly love the chaos of the Rangey that I've decided to keep that too. Must be a massochist or something.
Decided to stick the toe in the water as dealer says they are only being allocated 30-40 460 models a year and around the same for the sport, so that should seriously help residuals.
Reliability wise, they know their reputation so hoping they have taken a stride with these new models.
So far, everything works, quality is very, very good and the V5 turned up on the Monday after Friday purchase.
Hopefully it continues.
On a footnote, the dealer whom bought our last epic much loved 4x4 last Thursday offered me £20k over asking when I told him what we were taking delivery of the next day, which was nice but not desired.
RogerDodgerSuperTodger said:
Agreed. In the pursuit of making the headlights and grille as slim as possible, they've ended up with an ugly great band of bland bodywork to fill the void. I've seen a few around now and unfortunately I have to put these in the same camp as the Disco 5; the munter camp.
Luckily the proper Range Rover is an elegant thing.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff