Glad to see the back of it

[ChevronB19]

Panda 100HP. I fell for the hype from people like EVO etc. Horrible, and the hardest suspension known to man, to the point where I got underneath it just to check if the transit blocks had been left in the coils.

[anonymous-user]

ScoobyChris said:

wormus said:

Mostly Germans being lambasted here and not one Land Rover. Just goes to show PH prejudice and optimism bias is alive and well when the fact is Audi, BMW and Mercedes make the crap cars.

My Discovery was excellent except for the leaky roof windows, the warping dash and the slightly distorted tailgate.

Apparently it lunched its turbo after my ownership too.

Regrets though? After the fun I had with it on and off road, not a chance

Chris

I’ve had several and currently own a D4 and a P38 Range Rover. I’ve had the D4 for 8 years and it’s been pretty faultless. The P38 has a reputation for the most unreliable Land Rover ever built, but like most things, they are misunderstood. The mechanicals are robust, simple to maintain and the parts are cheap. Even the electrics can be fixed if you know what you are doing. Like anything, buy one that’s been meticulously maintained and look after it. If you like tinkering with cars they are great to spend time on.

[anonymous-user]

C70R said:

wormus said:

Mostly Germans being lambasted here and not one Land Rover. Just goes to show PH prejudice and optimism bias is alive and well when the fact is Audi, BMW and Mercedes make the crap cars.

Not really. I think you tend to see a lot more of a 'sunk cost' fallacy with Discoveries, because it's not like you can just swap them for a cheap hatchback that will do the same.

Every specialist I've used or spoken to hated working on the D3/4 because of how finicky and complicated they are. At the age of life right now, they are at rock bottom of the depreciation curve, and usually being sold because of a bill.

When you add that to the diesel engines having a fundamental flaw that causes the crank to snap, and the need to lift the entire body off to do various jobs, it's a hard car to love if you get a lemon.

Said as the owner of a D3.

As above, I’ve owned several, including a D3 and D4 which between them I kept for 15 years and both have been very reliable. The issue you describe is where people try to run them on a Fiesta budget and are surprised when they break. D4s still command good money as nobody likes the D5. Surprised a specialist LR garage would hate working on these, they are bread and butter for mine. They have refused to work on my P38 though so I had to find one that would!

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 24th October 10:39

[anonymous-user]

I will nominate my Alfa 159 which I bought new in 2006. Kept it 6 months as the dealer tried to fix an electrical fault that made the engine go into limp mode. Got a refund and bought the Monaro from them, also brand new.

[C70R]

wormus said:

C70R said:

wormus said:

Mostly Germans being lambasted here and not one Land Rover. Just goes to show PH prejudice and optimism bias is alive and well when the fact is Audi, BMW and Mercedes make the crap cars.

Not really. I think you tend to see a lot more of a 'sunk cost' fallacy with Discoveries, because it's not like you can just swap them for a cheap hatchback that will do the same.

Every specialist I've used or spoken to hated working on the D3/4 because of how finicky and complicated they are. At the age of life right now, they are at rock bottom of the depreciation curve, and usually being sold because of a bill.

When you add that to the diesel engines having a fundamental flaw that causes the crank to snap, and the need to lift the entire body off to do various jobs, it's a hard car to love if you get a lemon.

Said as the owner of a D3.

As above, I’ve owned several, including a D3 and D4 which between them I kept for 15 years and both have been very reliable. The issue you describe is where people try to run them on a Fiesta budget and are surprised when they break. D4s still command good money as nobody likes the D5. Surprised a specialist LR garage would hate working on these, they are bread and butter for mine. They have refused to work on my P38 though so I had to find one that would!

Edited by wormus on Tuesday 24th October 10:39

They are cars that need money spent on them to be reliable, quite simply. Mine isn't even a diesel, and yet I spent £5k+ maintaining it in its first year in my ownership. Not many people buying a £5-8k car (because that's where you can get into a D4 these days) have the means or desire to spend that kind of money to maintain them. People cut corners, they ignore faults or fix symptoms, they fit cheap parts - and we end up with a car whose reputation is one of poor reliability.

All of that being said, there are inherent design and engineering flaws that make the diesel Disco a hard car to love. Needing to lift the body off to change the turbos or manifolds is pretty dire, and the worry about a crank just snapping without warning even on cars with decent history is something no owner needs hanging over them.

[otolith]

I had a couple of E320CDI estates. A 2005 S211 and a 2010 S212. The 2005 one was a bit unreliable and a bit expensive to maintain. The 2010 one was an unreliable money pit.

Edited by otolith on Thursday 26th October 18:07

[Limpet]

wormus said:

ScoobyChris said:

wormus said:

Mostly Germans being lambasted here and not one Land Rover. Just goes to show PH prejudice and optimism bias is alive and well when the fact is Audi, BMW and Mercedes make the crap cars.

My Discovery was excellent except for the leaky roof windows, the warping dash and the slightly distorted tailgate.

Apparently it lunched its turbo after my ownership too.

Regrets though? After the fun I had with it on and off road, not a chance

Chris

I’ve had several and currently own a D4 and a P38 Range Rover. I’ve had the D4 for 8 years and it’s been pretty faultless. The P38 has a reputation for the most unreliable Land Rover ever built, but like most things, they are misunderstood. The mechanicals are robust, simple to maintain and the parts are cheap. Even the electrics can be fixed if you know what you are doing. Like anything, buy one that’s been meticulously maintained and look after it. If you like tinkering with cars they are great to spend time on.

I think the problem with Land Rover products is the quality control at the factory isn’t good enough and there is huge variation.

My dad had a Discovery 1 300 TDI, and rust eventually killed it once it got older. Until then it was just bits that you’d expect on any older car (a fuel hose, the odd suspension bush and bearing) but fundamentally a very well built and reliable car.

On the strength of this, he bought a Disco 2 with the TD5 engine, and it was a complete and utter dog. He spent thousands of pounds on repairs and diagnosis of silly intermittent problems before finally cutting his losses and selling it.

I also know somebody with a P38 that needs a bit of fettling occasionally but keeps on going. But the horror stories of P38s speak volumes as well.

If you’re buying a used one, you definitely want one that’s had as few owners as possible, which suggests it’s a good one. So many of these go through one owner every year, and it’s not hard to see why.

[CT05 Nose Cone]

Golf GTi mk.2. Made the classic mistake of buying it in the dark, water pump started leaking on the way home, handbrake didn't work, then looked at it in the morning to realise it was more than one shade of red.. Never got any better and ended up selling it for less than it cost to put it through the MOT. Used to leave it unlocked in the hope someone would steal it (not that they would have gotten far) but even the local scrotes weren't interested.

[TameRacingDriver]

CT05 Nose Cone said:

Golf GTi mk.2. Made the classic mistake of buying it in the dark, water pump started leaking on the way home, handbrake didn't work, then looked at it in the morning to realise it was more than one shade of red.. Never got any better and ended up selling it for less than it cost to put it through the MOT. Used to leave it unlocked in the hope someone would steal it (not that they would have gotten far) but even the local scrotes weren't interested.

I also had a Golf GTI Mk2 that worked when it felt like it. Fun when it worked, but otherwise a total skip of a car.

[12TS]

TameRacingDriver said:

The mini is a funny one, the R53 (MK1) was supposedly unreliable but I didn't have many issues, and the Chrysler engine was pretty bullet proof even if the car itself wasn't always the easiest to work on.

I've just bought an F56 JCW (MK3) and I did a lot of research on potential cars before I decided to go for it, they don't have many issues.

However, I wouldn't have touched an R56 (MK2) with a bargepole. Chocolate engines and the rest of it wasn't much better. Tbh I'm surprised to see the R53 have more mentions in this thread than the R56.

We racked up getting to 200 000 miles is various flavours of Mini, R56 and F56 and they were mostly fine. You'll get good and bad examples with all cars, this thread is interesting to hear about specifics - I'm not drawing too many conclusions from it.

[Heaveho]

wormus said:

Klippie said:

My horror story is a 1984 XR2 which was less than three years old when I bought it, I lost count of how many sets of brake discs the car had due to poor quality Ford parts, constant squeaks from the front suspension, broken engine mounts which caused the exhaust to snap, engine going out of tune which required frequent carburettor adjustment, then to top it all off corrosion on the bonnet which resulted in a large hole through the front.

Utter pile of crap car and the last Ford I will ever buy.

Eh? You must have abused the crap out of it or not maintained it. We had loads of Fiestas MK1s all the way to MK6 (my daughter still has one now). Brilliant little cars that ask for nothing. Mk1 & 2 only had about 3 moving parts so I don’t know how yours was so unreliable. As for engine mounts, I had a set go and they were £5 to buy from a Ford dealer and took half an hour to replace.

I've seen both sides of this with Fords. I had several in a row when I worked for them, and while they weren't the nicest things, they tended to be reasonably reliable. Not Fords fault that I bought a 12k mile XR3i with a 1.9 engine conversion, which was quick for the next 6k miles, at which point the block cracked between a liner and water jacket, resulting in me putting it back to standard one weekend at work.

Delighted when a guy hit the thing head on while I was on my way to work a few months later, writing it off. Funny day. I ended up getting a lift in to work, and picking my own wrecked car up with our breakdown truck which I used to drive at the time! Then realised I had some sort of back problem when the adrenalin wore off and ended up in hospital for a couple of days.

I've had 4 Connects in a row since 2008, they've all been generally reliable.

[Tom8]

I loved my Audi S8 D3 however every time you got in I'd wait for the inevitable orange light to come on. But then I heard it start and drove it and fell in love again. Then fell out with it. Then loved it again. Every visit to the garage was basically a grand. And there were many visits. The Audi did more trips to the garage than all the TVRs I've owned. Apparently TVRs are unreliable etc.

I still miss it. I'd still buy another one.

[anonymous-user]

Limpet said:

I think the problem with Land Rover products is the quality control at the factory isn’t good enough and there is huge variation.

My dad had a Discovery 1 300 TDI, and rust eventually killed it once it got older. Until then it was just bits that you’d expect on any older car (a fuel hose, the odd suspension bush and bearing) but fundamentally a very well built and reliable car.

On the strength of this, he bought a Disco 2 with the TD5 engine, and it was a complete and utter dog. He spent thousands of pounds on repairs and diagnosis of silly intermittent problems before finally cutting his losses and selling it.

I also know somebody with a P38 that needs a bit of fettling occasionally but keeps on going. But the horror stories of P38s speak volumes as well.

If you’re buying a used one, you definitely want one that’s had as few owners as possible, which suggests it’s a good one. So many of these go through one owner every year, and it’s not hard to see why.

My Dad did the same - loads of Land Rovers going back to a series 2, including a 2 door classic RR. His last LR was a Disco 2, had it waxoiled from new and kept it in a dry garage. Chassis still rotted.

P38’s reputation precedes it. Few weeks ago I had the dash out to replace the HVAC blend motors and the heater O rings. Both were original and had only packed up recently after 21 years of service. Took a day to take the dash out and another to put it back. Replacement parts were just over £100 and still available OE. Worst part was replacing the heater matrix which I broke over tightening the screw holding the O rings in place. You have to remove the metal frame the dashboard is fixed to to get at it. Most people hacksaw it and then bolt it together but I couldn’t butcher it so removed it properly. The main problem is it was never designed to come apart so it’s a pain to get at all the bolts. Still if you take your time and label everything it’s quite satisfying getting to know the bowels of the beast and at least I know it’s been fixed properly.

[Speed 3]

TameRacingDriver said:

Speed 3 said:

That is interesting. My experience of BMW & Mini is the exact opposite although I took care to pick the versions of Minis that didn't have issues (their development plan seemed to be a sine wave).

The mini is a funny one, the R53 (MK1) was supposedly unreliable but I didn't have many issues, and the Chrysler engine was pretty bullet proof even if the car itself wasn't always the easiest to work on.

I've just bought an F56 JCW (MK3) and I did a lot of research on potential cars before I decided to go for it, they don't have many issues.

However, I wouldn't have touched an R56 (MK2) with a bargepole. Chocolate engines and the rest of it wasn't much better. Tbh I'm surprised to see the R53 have more mentions in this thread than the R56.

My first one was an R56 and it was utterly reliable although I did go for a late one after they'd done some revisions to the engine.

[LuS1fer]

Cortina Mk II 1600E - overrated (had a 1300 too which was rotten)
Alfasud 1200 Ti - rotten as a pear
Austin Mini 1000 (1978) - loved to rust, more a punishment than a drive, arthritic performance
Astra GTE 16v - incredibly overrated (had a 1300 Mk 2 as well, not a good car).

[anonymous-user]

Tom8 said:

I loved my Audi S8 D3 however every time you got in I'd wait for the inevitable orange light to come on. But then I heard it start and drove it and fell in love again. Then fell out with it. Then loved it again. Every visit to the garage was basically a grand. And there were many visits. The Audi did more trips to the garage than all the TVRs I've owned. Apparently TVRs are unreliable etc.

I still miss it. I'd still buy another one.

I had a D2 S8 4.2 Quattro Sport. 4 years old when I got it and less than 50k miles, electric everything and such a nice car. Cost me £16k if I remember rightly so savage depreciation for the one previous owner. Nothing ever went wrong with it but I was poor and could barely afford the quite reasonable 23mpg. Had to get rid of it when the cam belts needed changing as Audi wanted well over a grand to do the work.

[Pebbles167]

I've already posted up about my R53 Coope S, but I've remembered another car I was less than fond of.

2002 Jaguar X Type 3.0 sport

Bought in 2010 with 80k and full service history on the recommendation of a mates uncle who owned one (unbeknownst to him, his was completely rotten underneath and would be scrapped within a year).

Mine wasn't the most unreliable thing ever, but it had several problems even after being properly fixed would come back, and it gave me my only engine faulure in 20 cars. Worst niggle was it's tendency to randomly lock itself, which it did one day whilst the engine was running with my year old daughter strapped in her seat, needed a vehicle locksmith for that one.

It was reasonably quick, and I do remember having some fun with it once in the snow. I went for the manual which helped, although in reality the auto was better suited to it. The leather interior seemed squeezed in to somewhere it didn't really fit, and updating mine from boggo manual dial spec to climate control with nav wasn't the easy job I was told, it wasn't possible actually. I felt jag should have modernised the interior instead of throwing wood all over the place. I probably wasn't the only one with this opinion as later model years used piano black on the dash, and looked better for it. Indeed current jags are very modern inside.

Either way, after a year of ownership the crankshaft developed some serious issues and made an awful noise, this required a replacement used engine. I paid to get it done, and PX'd it to a dealer for a Mitsubishi Evo III.

Combined repair bills and PX hit meant I lost the entire value of the car. But as I drove away in the Lancer, I was happy knowing I'd not see the Jag again.

[Gordon Hill]

Another that I was glad to see the back of, for different reasons to the Merc, was a one year old escort. It was the only car that I've ever bought on finance. Had 5,000 miles on it, it wasn't unreliable in any way but I'd never been as bored by a car in my life. It had nothing, base spec 1.4 litres of boredom.

Sold it and bought a base spec 316 BMW, loved that car, never put a foot wrong. I think with the Merc I was naively thinking of the "hewn from granite" reputation of bygone years.

I was so disappointed that it was exactly the opposite of everything that I thought it would be, I guess it's because buying sheds you tend not to expect too much and if they last 4 or 5 years it's a pleasant surprise, but when you pay a lot more for something nicer the expectation rises.

[NomduJour]

wormus said:

Few weeks ago I had the dash out to replace the HVAC blend motors

I keep finding excuses not to do it…

[J4CKO]

PK0001 said:

B235r said:

Sure have a Clio 182 hated the thing with a passion sold it the day the v5 came through the door

Badly built, didn't handle

Ditto

Bought a Clio 182 brand new, didnt take a test drive, believed the hype.

Noisy, cramped, awful driving position, steering wheel from a bus, engine sounded like a 100k van.

Lasted 3 months.

Nearly bought one, was 100 percent sure it’s what I wanted and tried a year old one, couldn’t see what the fuss was about, suspect it may have grown on me, but think might be better coming up from day a Saxo VTR than down from 2.0 turbo or bigger car.