''Yeah it's an M3 mate''
Discussion
I tend to find it amusing when someone feels the need to take a 520 and stick a M5 badge on it (or similar). If you leave the 520 badge on then you could be a very wealthy chap who isn't into cars and wants something big, reliable and comfortable (I know a lot of very wealthy people who drive very modest cars). As soon as you create a very obvious fake M3/M5 you say to the world that you are desperate to own such a car but can't afford it.
Aiten said:
Might have been posted before, but I have just skimmed. Anyway, isn't the M badge added by default to any car with the optional M Sport pack?
No, on the 3 series, BMW haven't done that for about 20 years.pgilc1 said:
No, but you're right to link M with M Sport. Its BMW M divisions parts that make up the M Sports additions over the standard car.
Which parts? It's brand engineering, like the Audi S-Line brand, they all work for the same company but that's where the similarity ends. There isn't an M1 so where do the M parts come from to build a 1 series M-Sport? There's a thread on one of the US BMW forums about a fella that put an M3 engine into his 330. Pretty much everything was changed even down to the loom. The M Sport is simply top of the 'normal' range and is simply BMWs way of capitalising on the M heritage.As I've said before the vitriol from many was unnecessary, but likewise is it OK to put an RS badge on an S-Line Audi? is it OK to put an RS badge on a C4? is it OK to put an RS badge on an ST? is it OK to put an AMG badge on a C-Class? a Type-R badge on a Jazz? to use a Porsche 'turbo' badge on the back of a Golf turbo.....etc etc.
I think even you would laugh at some of those?
Ranger 6 said:
Aiten said:
Might have been posted before, but I have just skimmed. Anyway, isn't the M badge added by default to any car with the optional M Sport pack?
No, on the 3 series, BMW haven't done that for about 20 years.pgilc1 said:
No, but you're right to link M with M Sport. Its BMW M divisions parts that make up the M Sports additions over the standard car.
Which parts? It's brand engineering, like the Audi S-Line brand, they all work for the same company but that's where the similarity ends. There isn't an M1 so where do the M parts come from to build a 1 series M-Sport? There's a thread on one of the US BMW forums about a fella that put an M3 engine into his 330. Pretty much everything was changed even down to the loom. The M Sport is simply top of the 'normal' range and is simply BMWs way of capitalising on the M heritage.As I've said before the vitriol from many was unnecessary, but likewise is it OK to put an RS badge on an S-Line Audi? is it OK to put an RS badge on a C4? is it OK to put an RS badge on an ST? is it OK to put an AMG badge on a C-Class? a Type-R badge on a Jazz? to use a Porsche 'turbo' badge on the back of a Golf turbo.....etc etc.
I think even you would laugh at some of those?
What you have to remember though is that 'M' is not a car designation, whereas RS and Type-R are. The BMW M division is a separate group, in the same way as AMG are for Mercedes. Prior to 1996 AMG only did tuning parts / alloys / etc for mercedes and it was in that year that they first produced the AMG C36 - the first AMG built car to be sold through a Mercedes dealership with a Mercedes warranty.
You can still buy many AMG 'bits' for your Mercedes as aftermarket parts, therefore the owner of a Mercedes C class may feel justified in putting an AMG badge on his AMG kitted and alloyed C200, however i dont think you would be fooling too many people if you stuck a C63 badge on it...
People will also occasionally put a Schnitzer badge on their BMW if they have used their aftermarket parts.
Therefore i dont particularly see a problem with the M badge as it represents a sports division of BMW in the same way as AMG and schnitzer represent separate organisations. Would i personally put one on my 535d Sport? No, but likewise i dont see any reason to feel 'angry' or 'very agitated' because some bloke somewhere has.
So it has been said (Clarkson), if you own an M3, you are a Cock, are you less of a Cock if you have a lower model and claim it to be an M3, its all too confusing for me, I wouldnt do it, I just makes me think of those Billy Liar, delusions of Grandeur, know it all, Walter Mitty types we have all met, the ones you cant compete with due to the fact you are bound by reality and truth in all you say.
Debadging/Downgrading is ok, sometimes a person owning a performance car may not want unwanted attention due to an iconic badge, prefering to enjoy the performance discreetly, its a basic form of the whole Q car thing, as for arent I clever as mentioned earlier, there are so few that do it, its forgivable.
These types come unstuck when confronted by a real PetrolHead as they rely on fooling those who dont know any better, but then sometimes, knowing exhaust counts, wing mirror types who's the saddo !
Debadging/Downgrading is ok, sometimes a person owning a performance car may not want unwanted attention due to an iconic badge, prefering to enjoy the performance discreetly, its a basic form of the whole Q car thing, as for arent I clever as mentioned earlier, there are so few that do it, its forgivable.
These types come unstuck when confronted by a real PetrolHead as they rely on fooling those who dont know any better, but then sometimes, knowing exhaust counts, wing mirror types who's the saddo !
pgilc1 said:
Ranger 6 said:
pgilc1 said:
Ranger 6 said:
But we're not slating the car, it's the owners 'M affection' that causes such mirth. I do agree that some of the comments are a bit vitriolic. If you were to look for similar subjects on BMW, Mercedes, VW, Audi etc. I'm sure you'll find similar feelings for those who try and create a fake 'image'.
By doing what exactly? Having an m3 reg? How do you know he hasnt had one previously? How do you know he hasnt one on order? Who says hes trying to create a fake 'image', given he doesnt have an M3 badge on the car, and he has made no other attempt to mod the car?He has not put an M3 badge on the back of his car, but the symbol of the BMW M subsiduary.
I don't see this as an attempt ot convince anyone that this is an M3. It doesn't have the hideous bodywork adornments of the M3 to start with. The whole thing smacks of jealousy - IMO a 330, 330d or a 335 is a more desirable car than an M3 anyway.
A couple of pages back, someone made a comment about chips on shoulders. A lot of you seem to be carrying around a sack of potatoes.....
pgilc1, ultimately we agree in many ways 
- I also don't think there's any need to get angry or agitated over this. I just laugh and think people who add badges are likely to come out with drivel such as captured here... http://pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I do however disagree with what you say here;
....and the pedant in me spotted;
For an example a quick google found the 'Hammer' - http://www.fantasycars.com/sedans/HTML/mercedes_30...
- I also don't think there's any need to get angry or agitated over this. I just laugh and think people who add badges are likely to come out with drivel such as captured here... http://pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...I do however disagree with what you say here;
pgilc1 said:
What you have to remember though is that 'M' is not a car designation, whereas RS and Type-R are. The BMW M division is a separate group, in the same way as AMG are for Mercedes.
M is a car designation - M3, M5, M6. Exactly in the same way as AMG develop their variants for Mercedes and Quattro Gmbh develop the RS models for Audi. BMW chose to maximise the brand image by adding the M tag to their 'cooking' Sport models. Personally I think it dilutes the brand - witness the M Sport X3, badge and body kit engineering, AFAIK the suspension is no different to the Sport model and there is even a 'delete sports suspension' option. Where's the logic in that?....and the pedant in me spotted;
pgilc1 said:
Prior to 1996 AMG only did tuning parts/alloys/etc for mercedes and it was in that year that they first produced the AMG C36 - the first AMG built car to be sold through a Mercedes dealership with a Mercedes warranty.
AMG evolved firstly by building tuning parts to go racing, then they started building cars and selling wheels, parts, etc. as well. The cars were rare at first, (extreme models such as Hartge make - google H1) eventually acknowledged by Mercedes and ultimately they were bought out to capture the brand name and tuning expertise. You're right though, in that the early ones weren't sold through dealers, you have to look to the early 90s to find the E36 for that.For an example a quick google found the 'Hammer' - http://www.fantasycars.com/sedans/HTML/mercedes_30...
Edited by Ranger 6 on Wednesday 6th August 17:13
Ranger 6 said:
pgilc1, ultimately we agree in many ways - I also don't think there's any need to get angry or agitated over this. I just laugh and think people who add badges are likely to come out with drivel such as captured here... http://pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I do however disagree with what you say here;
BMW M is the name of the division, M3's, M5's are the specific models they make. M Sports use M designed / approved parts, and interestingly, the 'M' logo by itself is on the kick plates, steering wheel, gear knob, alloy wheels, so the M does not designate M3 or M5, it designates M Division. - I also don't think there's any need to get angry or agitated over this. I just laugh and think people who add badges are likely to come out with drivel such as captured here... http://pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...I do however disagree with what you say here;
pgilc1 said:
What you have to remember though is that 'M' is not a car designation, whereas RS and Type-R are. The BMW M division is a separate group, in the same way as AMG are for Mercedes.
M is a car designation - M3, M5, M6. Exactly in the same way as AMG develop their variants for Mercedes and Quattro Gmbh develop the RS models for Audi. BMW chose to maximise the brand image by adding the M tag to their 'cooking' Sport models. Personally I think it dilutes the brand - witness the M Sport X3, badge and body kit engineering, AFAIK the suspension is no different to the Sport model and there is even a 'delete sports suspension' option. Where's the logic in that?The suspension is different, its lower with firmer, heavier duty shocks. You can specify the sport suspension on the SE.
For the record you cannot delete sport suspension on even a humble 318d M Sport - try it on car configurator on their website. It shows that the sport suspension is fitted, but you cant remove it.
Also you can, for example buy an 'AMG' kit for an ML, which adds bigger wheels, flared arches and different bumpers. And i think they fit the AMG badge as part of that pack. Again demonstrating that AMG and M do a lot more than produce specific cars.
Ranger 6 said:
AMG evolved firstly by building tuning parts to go racing, then they started building cars and selling wheels, parts, etc. as well. The cars were rare at first, (extreme models such as Hartge make - google H1) eventually acknowledged by Mercedes and ultimately they were bought out to capture the brand name and tuning expertise. You're right though, in that the early ones weren't sold through dealers, you have to look to the early 90s to find the E36 for that.
For an example a quick google found the 'Hammer' - http://www.fantasycars.com/sedans/HTML/mercedes_30...
Love the AMG link. I have a soft spot for them. I had an AMG C36 a while ago, amazing mad thing in its time. For an example a quick google found the 'Hammer' - http://www.fantasycars.com/sedans/HTML/mercedes_30...
Edited by Ranger 6 on Wednesday 6th August 17:13
7 pages? Guys, get out more.
It isn't an M3 badge, it doesn't say M3. It says M. And the car is a 330i M Sport. Funny that.
Open the drivers door and there will be another badge exactly the same on the sill that BMW themselves put there.
Whats the problem? He's not passing it off as an M3.
It isn't an M3 badge, it doesn't say M3. It says M. And the car is a 330i M Sport. Funny that.
Open the drivers door and there will be another badge exactly the same on the sill that BMW themselves put there.
Whats the problem? He's not passing it off as an M3.
breezy said:
Was about to say pretty much exactly the same thing. As far as I'm concerned, M badges look ridiculous on any car that didn't have them from the factory...
Go and look at a 2000 BMW 528i Sport. It is factory fitted with no less than 6 M badges on the OUTSIDE of the car alone.Yes, M badges. No, not M5 badges. There is a difference.
I quite agree that people who stick M3 or M5 on non M Power cars should be publically stoned.
But come on, Sport and M Sport cars roll out of the factory with, at the minimum, 7 M badges displayed in various places inside and out of the car (If you buy a manual saloon you get 10 of the things!) so whats the problem?
Edited by [TW]Fox on Wednesday 6th August 21:16
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