RE: Caterham Readying 'Entirely New' Car
Discussion
Please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please let this be a 2door coupe (like the 21)
Knowing Caterham it'll be a CSR or similar chassis with a different body, hopefully it s drop dead gorgeous coupe with a mildly tuned V6 which sounds overtly sexual and has "potential"
The 21 was the car I wanted when I was younger, like a mini E-type, such a shame it arrived at the wrong time.
Knowing Caterham it'll be a CSR or similar chassis with a different body, hopefully it s drop dead gorgeous coupe with a mildly tuned V6 which sounds overtly sexual and has "potential"
The 21 was the car I wanted when I was younger, like a mini E-type, such a shame it arrived at the wrong time.
Please may I have a Caterham Levante drivetrain, wrapped up in a beautiful but light 2 door coupe shape. I'd like a fully detachable aero kit (on for trackdays, off for the road), Suspension that can be easily adjusted to 3 settings: comfort, sport, race. Integral cage, dry sump. Now, let's go get that nurburgring record back!! 
.... Yes, I can dream...
.... Yes, I can dream...surrey7er said:
Please may I have a Caterham Levante drivetrain, wrapped up in a beautiful but light 2 door coupe shape. I'd like a fully detachable aero kit (on for trackdays, off for the road), Suspension that can be easily adjusted to 3 settings: comfort, sport, race. Integral cage, dry sump. Now, let's go get that nurburgring record back!! .... Yes, I can dream...
And I'd like all that for <£20k.... Yes, I can dream...
ewenm said:
surrey7er said:
Please may I have a Caterham Levante drivetrain, wrapped up in a beautiful but light 2 door coupe shape. I'd like a fully detachable aero kit (on for trackdays, off for the road), Suspension that can be easily adjusted to 3 settings: comfort, sport, race. Integral cage, dry sump. Now, let's go get that nurburgring record back!! .... Yes, I can dream...
And I'd like all that for <£20k.... Yes, I can dream...We heard all this 10 years ago. We got the SV. A Seven.
Then a few years later we heard it again. we got the CSR. A Seven.
I wonder if this all new car will be......erm, A Seven.
I love Sevens. But sorry, I can't get excited by this news. Hopefully I'll be excited when it's unveiled.
Wake me up, just in case I miss the unveiling.
Then a few years later we heard it again. we got the CSR. A Seven.
I wonder if this all new car will be......erm, A Seven.
I love Sevens. But sorry, I can't get excited by this news. Hopefully I'll be excited when it's unveiled.
Wake me up, just in case I miss the unveiling.
The sales site is in Caterham - cars built at Kennet Road in Dartford, not quite as scenic
Lordbenny said:
'Dartford's Finest Sports Car Company', dont't Caterham's hail from errr...Caterham? 
I reckon it's going to be along the same lines as the Atom, new futuristic chassis & more streamlined that a '7'
I reckon it's going to be along the same lines as the Atom, new futuristic chassis & more streamlined that a '7'
Edited by Lordbenny on Monday 13th December 16:20
CedricTheBrave said:
She was a show girl
Remember the partnership with Reynard that fell over ten years ago? Could we be seeing a repeat of that? The trouble with is that same old problem still exists - the Elise. The Elise has now been developed for 14 years by one of the best sports car manufacturers in the world - it's a very hard act to follow.nomisesor said:
A stretched version - 5 seater (1+2+2)for the family man, with a LongSV (1+2+2+2) for those who'd otherwise need a Zafira. I haven't the photoshop skills to illustrate this wonderful idea.
Photoshop isn't necessary, behold the magnificence
Greg
Edited by Greg_D on Tuesday 14th December 15:16
Lawrence5 said:
otolith said:
Lawrence5 said:
Unless Caterham were looking to ramp up production the Elise would not be viable..... it's not viable for Lotus at current prodcution levels !
It would be interesting to find out whether the key bit of that phrase in determining why it isn't viable is "production levels" or "Lotus". It isn't as if Lotus have a good track record of making money out of anything!My take
1) The cost of homologating a car for Europe (UK SVA type rules are fine for uk only)
2) Not enough units to absorb a high level engineering spend (30,000 boxsters vs 3,000 elise's)
3) Not enough units to get good economies of scale (30,000 boxsters vs 3,000 elise's)
4) Insufficient price attached by customer (see the guy above who wants one for £15k)
Current management are trying to get volume and price to stop the above..... just losing the 1,000 UK customers they have in doing so (me included)
Rule of thumb is selling for 3 times the bill of materials – they should have made the s1 £36k at the time..... they were early £20k’s (a tuned duratec would take all the material cost budget)
Caterham achieve their balance through price as they run rings around cars 10 times the price on track – used rarely so don’t need the considerations of comfort, weather protection, NVH etc. For Caterham the value attached is for what it does.... as the Elise has drifted towards the boxster the value attached to a less compromised car in terms of kit - comfort, weather protection, NVH again etc. Not Lotus competencies !
If you gave old Lotus £100,000 to develop a car they'd spend £99,950 on getting the handling right and £50 on fuel to get to the cost and buy some chips to make sure it was drivable
Production levels are being increased at Lotus.
1 It's EU Conformity not homologating and Lotus have that for Elan, Esprit, Elise, etc
2 and 3 are the same thing: price per unit is irelevant, profit per unit is what keeps a company going.
4 Price is what the market you create dictates, not what everyone in the world can afford. Thats why the auto industry is in crisis; because they listened to accountants advice like this and made cheap cars with tiny margins.
Caterham took a product that was already successful, already had a market and was being dropped by it's manufacturer because it no longer fit with the business plan.
Caterham had a choice, take over from Lotus or go bust, so where is the development cost? Paid for by Lotus. They were at the right place at the right time and they did the right thing, they kept it and tweeked it over the years but never lost Colin Chapmans Ethos.
I'd love to see a Caterham 340R with a prettier bodyshell and more power! No longer available and I hear the 211 is being discontinued at the end of the year when its engine becomes obselete (New EU Emissions limit)!
humedini said:
Talk about recycling Lotus old products on a budget, I wonder if they'll wheel out some burnt out minor celebs to do the unveiling too
PhilJames said:
Lawrence5 said:
otolith said:
Lawrence5 said:
Unless Caterham were looking to ramp up production the Elise would not be viable..... it's not viable for Lotus at current prodcution levels !
It would be interesting to find out whether the key bit of that phrase in determining why it isn't viable is "production levels" or "Lotus". It isn't as if Lotus have a good track record of making money out of anything!My take
1) The cost of homologating a car for Europe (UK SVA type rules are fine for uk only)
2) Not enough units to absorb a high level engineering spend (30,000 boxsters vs 3,000 elise's)
3) Not enough units to get good economies of scale (30,000 boxsters vs 3,000 elise's)
4) Insufficient price attached by customer (see the guy above who wants one for £15k)
Current management are trying to get volume and price to stop the above..... just losing the 1,000 UK customers they have in doing so (me included)
Rule of thumb is selling for 3 times the bill of materials – they should have made the s1 £36k at the time..... they were early £20k’s (a tuned duratec would take all the material cost budget)
Caterham achieve their balance through price as they run rings around cars 10 times the price on track – used rarely so don’t need the considerations of comfort, weather protection, NVH etc. For Caterham the value attached is for what it does.... as the Elise has drifted towards the boxster the value attached to a less compromised car in terms of kit - comfort, weather protection, NVH again etc. Not Lotus competencies !
If you gave old Lotus £100,000 to develop a car they'd spend £99,950 on getting the handling right and £50 on fuel to get to the cost and buy some chips to make sure it was drivable
Production levels are being increased at Lotus.
1 It's EU Conformity not homologating and Lotus have that for Elan, Esprit, Elise, etc
2 and 3 are the same thing: price per unit is irelevant, profit per unit is what keeps a company going.
4 Price is what the market you create dictates, not what everyone in the world can afford. Thats why the auto industry is in crisis; because they listened to accountants advice like this and made cheap cars with tiny margins.
Caterham took a product that was already successful, already had a market and was being dropped by it's manufacturer because it no longer fit with the business plan.
Caterham had a choice, take over from Lotus or go bust, so where is the development cost? Paid for by Lotus. They were at the right place at the right time and they did the right thing, they kept it and tweeked it over the years but never lost Colin Chapmans Ethos.
I'd love to see a Caterham 340R with a prettier bodyshell and more power! No longer available and I hear the 211 is being discontinued at the end of the year when its engine becomes obselete (New EU Emissions limit)!
PhilJames said:
Production levels are being increased at Lotus.
That’s what I said...Lawrence5 said:
Current management are trying to get volume and price to stop the above
PhilJames said:
profit per unit is what keeps a company going
I’d add that continuing sales also keeps a company going, new cars maintain/increase sales – constantly investing to sell road legal cars (not just in the EU) is very, very expensive. As you say you need margins but this is either by virtue of volumes or large margins per unit.PhilJames said:
4 Price is what the market you create dictates, not what everyone in the world can afford. Thats why the auto industry is in crisis; because they listened to accountants advice like this and made cheap cars with tiny margins
Lawrence5 said:
Current management are trying to get volume and price to stop the above
Lotus are going into expensive markets, with high attached values and big margins to generate margins to pay for big engineering investments. Slightly pissed that I’m not economically viable as a customer with what I can spend – good luck to Caterham if they can do different - if so and they can seat me at 6'3" then I'll go see them. Best will in the world and target costing etc – you get what you pay for....I constantly read people wanting a car that’s 20% cheaper with 50bhp more – a company like Lotus lives on a knife edge..... my sole point really.
Anyway we digress – Caterham..... I like your 2-11 or 340r idea.
But I want it £5k less and with 300bhp please
I was day-dreaming yesterday that it could indeed be an S1 as a massive play from Bahar - like the stories of the general who takes his troops to some far-off country and then burns his own ships when they appear slightly reluctant.
"There is only one way out of here and it is the way I have shown - there is no going back, failure is now death!"
The Westfield XI would be awesome - that could well do with modernising (like a Seven has been modernised, i.e. modern engine and improved rear suspension, not manky bits from a Midget).
ETA: I don't actually think it'll be either of the above.
"There is only one way out of here and it is the way I have shown - there is no going back, failure is now death!"
The Westfield XI would be awesome - that could well do with modernising (like a Seven has been modernised, i.e. modern engine and improved rear suspension, not manky bits from a Midget).
ETA: I don't actually think it'll be either of the above.
Edited by Wilburo on Tuesday 14th December 17:09
If we're talking about buying up rights to produce old/defunct cars from other manufacturers, then my dream would be for them to have revived AC's seemingly failed attempt to re-release the Smart Roadster.
Strip it out, stick in a small, but racy lump and a proper gearbox put a Caterham badge on and job's a good'un. I'd have one.
Strip it out, stick in a small, but racy lump and a proper gearbox put a Caterham badge on and job's a good'un. I'd have one.
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