Chris Harris becomes a modern-day Salman Rushdie
Discussion
Harji said:
I've not driven an MX-5 but when I read the blog the first thing that struck me was it's complete arrogance.
Imagine you're at work, you tell you're mate "got a new car" and replies they're "sh*t"...For a so called respected journalist it's an awful way to put it across. Maybe he's thinking of a move to Nuts magazine?
Chris Harris has driven the MX-5 and explains why he doesn't rate it, doesn't seem like arrogance to be. Imagine you're at work, you tell you're mate "got a new car" and replies they're "sh*t"...For a so called respected journalist it's an awful way to put it across. Maybe he's thinking of a move to Nuts magazine?
Fittster said:
Chris Harris has driven the MX-5 and explains why he doesn't rate it, doesn't seem like arrogance to be.
The thing is doesn't actually explain or analyse much at all, just throws various insults at it in an attempt at sounding Clarksonish - while I don't mind some of his writing this just makes him seem like a childish attention-seeker desperate to boost his blog traffic.GravelBen said:
Fittster said:
Chris Harris has driven the MX-5 and explains why he doesn't rate it, doesn't seem like arrogance to be.
The thing is doesn't actually explain or analyse much at all, just throws various insults at it in an attempt at sounding Clarksonish - while I don't mind some of his writing this just makes him seem like a childish attention-seeker desperate to boost his blog traffic.He's certainly got a point about the driving position, as his screen name suggests he has short legs and long arms, hardly ideal for the MX5. As I said above, his point of view, which he's paid to write, at least he's being honest.
It's just plain immature and childish to start going on about him "trying to be like Clarkson" or attention seeking. He's just said he doesn't like your car. He's not called you kid ugly.
Evangelion said:
CampDavid said:
... He's just said he doesn't like your car. He's not called your kid ugly.
No, but to an MX-5 owner that's worse!Well then they should go read some of Tomalin's views. He thinks your kids lovely and would like to take them out for a drive.
(not sure which is worse
CampDavid said:
You missed the bit about him finding it slow, imprecise, unsatisfying and with a poor driving position. He also says that there's really not much fun to be had with it on sticky tyres.
He's certainly got a point about the driving position, as his screen name suggests he has short legs and long arms, hardly ideal for the MX5.
Its no slower than the 205 which he claims to love, calling it imprecise is just blatantly incorrect (though I'll freely admit its less precise than an Exige), unsatisfying I can accept as his opinion differing from mine.He's certainly got a point about the driving position, as his screen name suggests he has short legs and long arms, hardly ideal for the MX5.
Many people (like the thousands who use them for racing and trackdays) would disagree with him about not being fun on sticky tyres, but I agree that they're more fun on the road without stickies - but why should that be a reason to hate a car?
I'm never met anyone under 6'4 who hasn't found the driving position near on perfect (unless he's talking about the Mk3 there which I haven't tried).
CampDavid said:
As I said above, his point of view, which he's paid to write, at least he's being honest.
It's just plain immature and childish to start going on about him "trying to be like Clarkson" or attention seeking. He's just said he doesn't like your car. He's not called you kid ugly.
What I said was my point of view, which I'm giving for free (as my income doesn't depend on getting peoples' attention with dramatic writing). At least I'm being honest, given how different his claims are to the vast majority of other testers I have to wonder if he is though. It's just plain immature and childish to start going on about him "trying to be like Clarkson" or attention seeking. He's just said he doesn't like your car. He's not called you kid ugly.
I'm quite happy for him to dislike it if he gives decent reasons (as plenty of PHers have in the past), but in my opinion he hasn't done that.
Edited by GravelBen on Wednesday 9th February 09:38
GravelBen said:
Its no slower than the 205 which he claims to love, calling it imprecise is just blatantly incorrect (though I'll freely admit its less precise than an Exige), unsatisfying I can accept as being his opinion.
Many people (like the thousands who use them for racing and trackdays) would disagree with him about having nothing to offer on sticky tyres, but I agree that they're more fun on the road without stickies - but why should that be a reason to hate a car?
I'm never met anyone under 6'4 who hasn't found the driving position near on perfect (unless he's talking about the Mk3 there which I haven't tried).
What I said was my point of view, which I'm giving for free (as my income doesn't depend on getting peoples attention). At least I'm being honest.
Great, I'd probably agree with most of that (quicker than a 205 GTI though, really? C'mon) but you actually seem to be saving that his opinion, on an entirely subjective matter, is wrong. Just because you don't like it and it doesn't fit in with your view of the world, doesn't make it wrong and you'd need a bucket load of arrogance to suggest as such.Many people (like the thousands who use them for racing and trackdays) would disagree with him about having nothing to offer on sticky tyres, but I agree that they're more fun on the road without stickies - but why should that be a reason to hate a car?
I'm never met anyone under 6'4 who hasn't found the driving position near on perfect (unless he's talking about the Mk3 there which I haven't tried).
What I said was my point of view, which I'm giving for free (as my income doesn't depend on getting peoples attention). At least I'm being honest.
CampDavid said:
Great, I'd probably agree with most of that (quicker than a 205 GTI though, really? C'mon) but you actually seem to be saving that his opinion, on an entirely subjective matter, is wrong. Just because you don't like it and it doesn't fit in with your view of the world, doesn't make it wrong and you'd need a bucket load of arrogance to suggest as such.
IIRC he has/had a 205 XS? However a quick google found the following 0-60 figures for the 205 GTI:1.6: 8.9 secs
1.9 non cat: 7.6 secs
1.9 cat: 8.1 secs
Which compares pretty evenly with the Mk1 MX5 figures of 7.7-9.4 depending on model. (OK 10.3 for the 1.6 auto, but who wants an auto MX5 anyway!)
The subjective factors I'm happy to accept his differing opinion on, its the way he misrepresents the objective in order to provoke a reaction that I find irritating.
Edited by GravelBen on Wednesday 9th February 09:48
LuS1fer said:
It's nice to see you pick up the baton for every person who ever bought one but my experience is that "people" who buy these are largely girls or people who want "a convertible" and I can't even recall the last time I saw an MX5 being driven enthisiastically.
They're a vastly popular car. Therefore it will be owned by a vast number of people. The original Mk1's were more of an enthusiasts car at the time, and that's gradually diluted as the years have gone on, the cars have got softer and more popular with the masses. That's not to say that no enthusiasts buy them. There are just less in comparison to say a TVR, where an ownership requirement is that you have some sort of fetish for breakdown vans and parting with money regularly. As such of course there will be a higher ratio of masochists, sorry enthusiasts, to girls and hairdressers.He does have a 205 XS, I don't remember him ever saying it was quick. precise? definitely. The XS has sod all weight to it and skinny tryres and I'm sure it's a lot of fun.
I don't see what picking his garage apart is really going to do, it just makes you look a bit bitter and pathetic.
I don't see what picking his garage apart is really going to do, it just makes you look a bit bitter and pathetic.
CampDavid said:
I don't see what picking his garage apart is really going to do, it just makes you look a bit bitter and pathetic.
WTF, how on earth am I picking apart his garage? I mentioned the XS because you expressed disbelief at an MX5 having similar pace to a GTI (though it does if you read that stats above), to point out that he would be comparing it to an XS not a GTI.And hence that if being slow is not a reason for him to dislike the 205, that it might be considered dishonest of him to claim equal slowness as a reason to dislike the MX5.
Are you his mother or something?
Edited by GravelBen on Wednesday 9th February 09:57
GravelBen said:
I mentioned the XS because you expressed disbelief at an MX5 having similar pace to a GTI (though it does if you read that stats above)
It's always kept pace with the rear half of the hot hatch pack. Current model is 60 in 7.1 and 100 in 20.8 - combination of rear drive traction, mediocre aerodynamics and power-to-weight achieved more through low weight than high power flattering the 0-60 and insulting the 0-100.
CampDavid said:
You missed the bit about him finding it slow, imprecise, unsatisfying and with a poor driving position. He also says that there's really not much fun to be had with it on sticky tyres.
He's certainly got a point about the driving position, as his screen name suggests he has short legs and long arms, hardly ideal for the MX5. As I said above, his point of view, which he's paid to write, at least he's being honest.
It's just plain immature and childish to start going on about him "trying to be like Clarkson" or attention seeking. He's just said he doesn't like your car. He's not called you kid ugly.
I agree that Harris has not does not post from arrogance or Clarksonism or anything like that.He's certainly got a point about the driving position, as his screen name suggests he has short legs and long arms, hardly ideal for the MX5. As I said above, his point of view, which he's paid to write, at least he's being honest.
It's just plain immature and childish to start going on about him "trying to be like Clarkson" or attention seeking. He's just said he doesn't like your car. He's not called you kid ugly.
But i am bemused, because MX5s aren't slow (they might not be fast but they doesn't mean they're slow), they're definitely not imprecise (although MX5s with incorrect geo definitely are - downright dangerous in fact), and far from having a poor driving position my Mk1 had one of the very best. Certainly, my Mk1 MX5 was every bit as precise as my Boxster S, had a better driving position and was possibly more fun because it didn't have far too much grip. All of which i found very satisfying, I liked my 5 very much indeed.
And as I said before, CH seems to have taken a view far removed from his colleagues.
Fittster said:
Harji said:
I've not driven an MX-5 but when I read the blog the first thing that struck me was it's complete arrogance.
Imagine you're at work, you tell you're mate "got a new car" and replies they're "sh*t"...For a so called respected journalist it's an awful way to put it across. Maybe he's thinking of a move to Nuts magazine?
Chris Harris has driven the MX-5 and explains why he doesn't rate it, doesn't seem like arrogance to be. Imagine you're at work, you tell you're mate "got a new car" and replies they're "sh*t"...For a so called respected journalist it's an awful way to put it across. Maybe he's thinking of a move to Nuts magazine?
That line alone is just lazy, arrogant and poor lazy journalisim. It's in the same vein as someone pranging your car and saying "it's just a car". of all the stuff I've read on reviews of cars this line is simply the worst and off putting I have ever read.
Like I said, suited for Nuts readers..
Harji said:
Fittster said:
Harji said:
I've not driven an MX-5 but when I read the blog the first thing that struck me was it's complete arrogance.
Imagine you're at work, you tell you're mate "got a new car" and replies they're "sh*t"...For a so called respected journalist it's an awful way to put it across. Maybe he's thinking of a move to Nuts magazine?
Chris Harris has driven the MX-5 and explains why he doesn't rate it, doesn't seem like arrogance to be. Imagine you're at work, you tell you're mate "got a new car" and replies they're "sh*t"...For a so called respected journalist it's an awful way to put it across. Maybe he's thinking of a move to Nuts magazine?
That line alone is just lazy, arrogant and poor lazy journalisim. It's in the same vein as someone pranging your car and saying "it's just a car". of all the stuff I've read on reviews of cars this line is simply the worst and off putting I have ever read.
Like I said, suited for Nuts readers..
t car.The venom the supporters of the MX-5 are displaying in their defence of their car is rather shocking.
I don't think there is much venom. Trouble with what he says is that it doesn't ring true to a rather large number of people who have had experience with the cars.
If he draws a line in the sand with the mx5 classed as st with imprecise handling then that makes a huge amount of other cars really st. It means you need some thing like an Elise, Mk3 MR2, Caterham to fall into the Good precise handling category.
If he draws a line in the sand with the mx5 classed as s
t with imprecise handling then that makes a huge amount of other cars really st. It means you need some thing like an Elise, Mk3 MR2, Caterham to fall into the Good precise handling category.Ultimately from the perspective of Harris and Evo all this hype and banter is meaningless as no one on the evo site actually cares. Its only on here PH where some 100 or so give a toss. ITs really just dust in the wind.
Evo is down now to its core crew of 60k buyers/subs and advertisers and there apparent desire to keep on buying the thing regularly. Thats whats keeps them afloat but as well not too profitable.
Evo is down now to its core crew of 60k buyers/subs and advertisers and there apparent desire to keep on buying the thing regularly. Thats whats keeps them afloat but as well not too profitable.
j123 said:
Ultimately from the perspective of Harris and Evo all this hype and banter is meaningless as no one on the evo site actually cares. Its only on here PH where some 100 or so give a toss. ITs really just dust in the wind.
Evo is down now to its core crew of 60k buyers/subs and advertisers and there apparent desire to keep on buying the thing regularly. Thats whats keeps them afloat but as well not too profitable.
How many does your mag have?Evo is down now to its core crew of 60k buyers/subs and advertisers and there apparent desire to keep on buying the thing regularly. Thats whats keeps them afloat but as well not too profitable.
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