RE: Ferrari 458 Vs McLaren 12C - The Verdict
Discussion
Kong said:
I do wonder how many people prefer the Mclaren just because its British.
Are you surprised though? If the McLaren was from any other country it would be slammed on here for being generic looking, characterless and lacking soul.It's always been this way in the British motoring press. I think it was Chris Harris's column in EVO recently,that said something about this nationalistic short-sightedness re the Evora recently.
Since the PH forums are the UK motoring worlds equivalent to the Daily Mail, (and should be taken with the same large pinch of salt), I'd be very surprised if it was any other way.
HAB said:
Kong said:
I do wonder how many people prefer the Mclaren just because its British.
Are you surprised though? If the McLaren was from any other country it would be slammed on here for being generic looking, characterless and lacking soul.It's always been this way in the British motoring press. I think it was Chris Harris's column in EVO recently,that said something about this nationalistic short-sightedness re the Evora recently.
Since the PH forums are the UK motoring worlds equivalent to the Daily Mail, (and should be taken with the same large pinch of salt), I'd be very surprised if it was any other way.
That said i prefer to be consistant in my views, there is a certain irony to the PH reaction for this car. For years cars like the 911 Turbo, GTR, R8 etc have, despite their technical brilliance, been knocked on here for being too clinical, perhaps too able and lacking in character. These are the arguments used by people who would prefer a TVR, Jag, Aston, Exige etc.
But for the first time it seems that argument has been turned on its head and its the Ferrari which exudes the virtues we so covet, moreso than the British car. Not that i am saying the Mclaren is boring, not even close (not least because like 99% of people on here i havent driven one). But there is a faint smell of hypocrisy.
Kong said:
But for the first time it seems that argument has been turned on its head and its the Ferrari which exudes the virtues we so covet, moreso than the British car. Not that i am saying the Mclaren is boring, not even close (not least because like 99% of people on here i havent driven one). But there is a faint smell of hypocrisy.
Indeed, couldn't agree more.Personally, I think its high time the UK motor industry has (apparently, though as of yet, unproven) made something that isn't full of 'character & soul'.
Why? - because going by the history of British performance manufacturers, 'character & soul' invariably means underdeveloped, underengineered, badly assembled, brittle unreliable cars, that are good at a couple of things, (if you're lucky) and piss-poor at everything else.
otolith said:
Or, perhaps, the people who prioritise engineering excellence over "character" now have a British option - PH is a diversity of opinion.
Very good point, hopefully we can lure some of the 911 Turbo and Gallardo boys back to Blighty. Athough i wouldnt call the 458 a shed. 570bhp from an N/A 4.5 for starters..
Kong said:
I do wonder how many people prefer the Mclaren just because its British.
If you just compare the cars. The consensus is the Ferrari is better looking but by no means a dealbreaker. The Mclaren is probably slightly faster but the Ferrari is only .1 second off an Enzo round the TG track, so i hardly think anyone will be disappointed with the speed.
The Ferrari just seems a more 'PH' car. There are constant threads on these boards lamenting the decline of large capacity N/A engines. So it seems odd that the majority of people would rather have the smaller engine'd turbo car than the 9000rpm N/A screaming Ferrari V8. Likewise people are stating Co2 as a reason to opt for the Mclaren
what is happening to this place?!
My thoughts exactly. It's disappointing enough that these sort of cars will probably never have a manual gear box again but the MC12 and the new Pagani are the beginning of the end for naturally aspirated engines. I want to enjoy chasing the red-line instead of having a high torque engine that you can just leave in 3rd every where.If you just compare the cars. The consensus is the Ferrari is better looking but by no means a dealbreaker. The Mclaren is probably slightly faster but the Ferrari is only .1 second off an Enzo round the TG track, so i hardly think anyone will be disappointed with the speed.
The Ferrari just seems a more 'PH' car. There are constant threads on these boards lamenting the decline of large capacity N/A engines. So it seems odd that the majority of people would rather have the smaller engine'd turbo car than the 9000rpm N/A screaming Ferrari V8. Likewise people are stating Co2 as a reason to opt for the Mclaren
what is happening to this place?! Fuelbrother DC said:
freedman said:
....looks like a Lotus at first glance
I saw it in the flesh at FOS last year and it just isnt special enough in the looks department
BOY WHAT A GREAT ESPRIT THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN....I saw it in the flesh at FOS last year and it just isnt special enough in the looks department
this car is everything that LOTUS SHOULD have been making - what's their excuse?
Kong said:
HAB said:
Kong said:
I do wonder how many people prefer the Mclaren just because its British.
Are you surprised though? If the McLaren was from any other country it would be slammed on here for being generic looking, characterless and lacking soul.It's always been this way in the British motoring press. I think it was Chris Harris's column in EVO recently,that said something about this nationalistic short-sightedness re the Evora recently.
Since the PH forums are the UK motoring worlds equivalent to the Daily Mail, (and should be taken with the same large pinch of salt), I'd be very surprised if it was any other way.
That said i prefer to be consistant in my views, there is a certain irony to the PH reaction for this car. For years cars like the 911 Turbo, GTR, R8 etc have, despite their technical brilliance, been knocked on here for being too clinical, perhaps too able and lacking in character. These are the arguments used by people who would prefer a TVR, Jag, Aston, Exige etc.
But for the first time it seems that argument has been turned on its head and its the Ferrari which exudes the virtues we so covet, moreso than the British car. Not that i am saying the Mclaren is boring, not even close (not least because like 99% of people on here i havent driven one). But there is a faint smell of hypocrisy.
A lot of people on here seem to saying that the Ferrari has more passion, how the hell do you quantify that? I have driven the 458 in anger and it is an amazingly efficient machine, but it is also a little aloof and detached. The computers systems are just too obvious in there implementation and on the way the car drives. I came away from my test impressed but with no desire to own one. Its unresolved styling did not help either.
I do wonder if the whole "passion" thing has just been drummed into us over the years so that we now just repeat it parrot fashion. I must admit I have lost faith in Ferrari over the last ten years in equal proportion to how many bits of tat they can stick the Ferrari label too.
Do we really think that the guys and girls behind the Mclaren have not been as passionate if not more so than there Ferrari rivals especially knowing what they were up against?
On a separate note I have also driven the Gallardo and the R8 and if it was my money I would take the R8 every time. In my opinion, it’s just the better car overall of the two.
Edited by Streetrod on Monday 14th February 20:38
jontysafe said:
So if you spec the Macca with the carbon brakes that come as standard on the 458 it`s more expensive. With all the options available on both these it`s very easy to turn them into £200,000 cars. Is that in line with inflation compared to when the 430 was launched.....I don`t think so.
One thing bothers me, I`m not sure how I would feel about buying the macca when it creates max power at 7000 rpm, hardly the stuff of supercars, more usable but hardly exotic. Turbochargers in my mind are cheating, no doubt they are the way forward but I`ll hang on to naturally aspirated anachronisms for as long as possible thanks.
Got to be the Ferrari for me, a screaming 9000RPM max power all without the use of a hairdrier!
Yeah the 288 GTO and Ferrari F40 were a right load of rubbish.One thing bothers me, I`m not sure how I would feel about buying the macca when it creates max power at 7000 rpm, hardly the stuff of supercars, more usable but hardly exotic. Turbochargers in my mind are cheating, no doubt they are the way forward but I`ll hang on to naturally aspirated anachronisms for as long as possible thanks.
Got to be the Ferrari for me, a screaming 9000RPM max power all without the use of a hairdrier!
Andy
alock said:
Kong said:
I do wonder how many people prefer the Mclaren just because its British.
If you just compare the cars. The consensus is the Ferrari is better looking but by no means a dealbreaker. The Mclaren is probably slightly faster but the Ferrari is only .1 second off an Enzo round the TG track, so i hardly think anyone will be disappointed with the speed.
The Ferrari just seems a more 'PH' car. There are constant threads on these boards lamenting the decline of large capacity N/A engines. So it seems odd that the majority of people would rather have the smaller engine'd turbo car than the 9000rpm N/A screaming Ferrari V8. Likewise people are stating Co2 as a reason to opt for the Mclaren what is happening to this place?!
My thoughts exactly. It's disappointing enough that these sort of cars will probably never have a manual gear box again but the MC12 and the new Pagani are the beginning of the end for naturally aspirated engines. I want to enjoy chasing the red-line instead of having a high torque engine that you can just leave in 3rd every where.If you just compare the cars. The consensus is the Ferrari is better looking but by no means a dealbreaker. The Mclaren is probably slightly faster but the Ferrari is only .1 second off an Enzo round the TG track, so i hardly think anyone will be disappointed with the speed.
The Ferrari just seems a more 'PH' car. There are constant threads on these boards lamenting the decline of large capacity N/A engines. So it seems odd that the majority of people would rather have the smaller engine'd turbo car than the 9000rpm N/A screaming Ferrari V8. Likewise people are stating Co2 as a reason to opt for the Mclaren
what is happening to this place?! Also the DSG gearboxes provide better mileage and lower CO2 levels than a manual car. I am a massive fan of a good manual gearbox but am resigned to the fact they may all be gone in the next 5 - 7 years
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