RE: SOTW Jaguar XJ12 HE
Discussion
malc350 said:
I think you need to look under that bonnet and see what engine is there, maybe a 3.6 or 4.0 and I reckon they'd just about do that on a run.
I have owned 2 XJS V12s (both "HE" models with low miles and well serviced.) I only once beat 20 mpg and that was driving as if I had an egg on the throttle pedal at constant speed on a motorway. And mine were impecably maintained - I never even let the oil or air filters get dirty, plugs always replaced, timing spot on, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera...
I don't even think that Jaguar, in all the optimism of a manufacturer under "ideal test conditions" published an expected steady 56mph fuel consumption figure of more than 21 mpg.
I also remember reading about a fuel economy competition where someone entered one for a laugh and if I remember correctly it just about averaged 21 and a bit on a controlled steady speed course.
Both my XJSs were a few years apart and the fuel economy was identical.
There is no way, and I mean no way, that anyone would ever be able to achieve even 25mpg apart from contriving it by backing off the throttle and seeing "25" on the computer briefly.
And I really mean never. You will never achive that mpg in the real world.
Unless you put a 5 or 6 speed manual or 4 speed auto at least in place of that awful GM 400 slushbox. In fact it is the gearbox that completely ruins the car, stifling its performance and wasting fuel with its non-lockup torque converter. In fact it ruins the performance so much that I once drove a 3.6 with a 4 speed auto and it seemed every bit as quick whilst delivering much better fuel economy (maybe 25+ from that car on a run).
"25-27 from a V12 XJS and more on a run" I've heard it all now. You must be a car dealer or someone with an XJS for sale!
P.S. I love those cars, it's the fuel economy that probable will stop me ever getting one again.
And as for "what can go wrong?" Believe me, the £990 asking price will be the lowest bill the "lucky" buyer will ever see. Probably every single repair bill that car will need will be more than the initial purchase price...
I knew some one who had a non HE Daimler double six and he was very proud that he once achieved 19mpg, 10-12mpg being the norm.I have owned 2 XJS V12s (both "HE" models with low miles and well serviced.) I only once beat 20 mpg and that was driving as if I had an egg on the throttle pedal at constant speed on a motorway. And mine were impecably maintained - I never even let the oil or air filters get dirty, plugs always replaced, timing spot on, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera...
I don't even think that Jaguar, in all the optimism of a manufacturer under "ideal test conditions" published an expected steady 56mph fuel consumption figure of more than 21 mpg.
I also remember reading about a fuel economy competition where someone entered one for a laugh and if I remember correctly it just about averaged 21 and a bit on a controlled steady speed course.
Both my XJSs were a few years apart and the fuel economy was identical.
There is no way, and I mean no way, that anyone would ever be able to achieve even 25mpg apart from contriving it by backing off the throttle and seeing "25" on the computer briefly.
And I really mean never. You will never achive that mpg in the real world.
Unless you put a 5 or 6 speed manual or 4 speed auto at least in place of that awful GM 400 slushbox. In fact it is the gearbox that completely ruins the car, stifling its performance and wasting fuel with its non-lockup torque converter. In fact it ruins the performance so much that I once drove a 3.6 with a 4 speed auto and it seemed every bit as quick whilst delivering much better fuel economy (maybe 25+ from that car on a run).
"25-27 from a V12 XJS and more on a run" I've heard it all now. You must be a car dealer or someone with an XJS for sale!
P.S. I love those cars, it's the fuel economy that probable will stop me ever getting one again.
And as for "what can go wrong?" Believe me, the £990 asking price will be the lowest bill the "lucky" buyer will ever see. Probably every single repair bill that car will need will be more than the initial purchase price...
Edited by malc350 on Friday 4th March 20:34
If anybody wants to read more about the Jaguar engine get a copy of Karl Ludvigsons book on the V12 engine.
It tells the storey of Sir William Lyons being skeptical about noise issues from an alloy engine, so the engineers built one from cast iron as a comparison. The only difference between the two being that the front of the iron block car sat some 2-3 inches lower!
flakeypaul said:
It was all going so well until you asked that doomed question - 'what can go wrong?'.
Bad move
When at Uni (1999'ish) I bought a 1982 XJ-S V12 HE for £700 with tax and MoT. Ran it 5 years and had huge fun. I had the gearbox rebuilt and a new aircon pump fitted. But nothing ever went wrong bar a couple of water hoses bursting. Bad move
Sensational car!
Can't miss an opportunity to show off the Double Six 
.
Daimler V12 Waftability with some TVR Griffith straight through rear exhaust pipes to replace the standard silencers and a couple of Tuscan racer K+N air filters (which, incedently are Jag fitment anyway) to give the V12 it's singing voice
..
.Daimler V12 Waftability with some TVR Griffith straight through rear exhaust pipes to replace the standard silencers and a couple of Tuscan racer K+N air filters (which, incedently are Jag fitment anyway) to give the V12 it's singing voice
..Edited by RetroWheels on Saturday 5th March 18:18
RetroWheels said:
Can't miss an oppurtunity to show off the Double Six .
Daimler V12 Waftability with some TVR Griffith straight through rear exhaust pipes to replace the standard silencers and a couple of Tuscan racer K+N air filters (which, incedently are Jag fitment anyway) to give the V12 it's singing voice..
It is beautiful. A lot of people prefer the Pepperpots, but I love the Kents..Daimler V12 Waftability with some TVR Griffith straight through rear exhaust pipes to replace the standard silencers and a couple of Tuscan racer K+N air filters (which, incedently are Jag fitment anyway) to give the V12 it's singing voice
..You could always turn it into an 'interesting' kit car . lol!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oae5AwZIllI&NR=...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oae5AwZIllI&NR=...
grahamw48 said:
You could always turn it into an 'interesting' kit car . lol!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oae5AwZIllI&NR=...
Thats going to be a Zonda replica, apparently.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oae5AwZIllI&NR=...
"I'm making the body just now, glass and carbon fibre. The idea is that it should oneday resemble a Zonda C12 roadster"
No comment.
Super. Awesome. SOTW. Top Marks!
Got good Jag credentials myself; my old man was a proper Daley in the 70s with some property developments, a few shops including a sports shop (Crombie Sports if any Aberdonians are reading) - starting off with a Mk II and then followed with two XJ6 Jags. Me? In 2003 after getting a bonus from work, well what's to be done, pay off some credit cards, or buy a 1993 XJ40 Sovereign 4.0? Well, clearly, the Jag every time. Had it for eighteen months much to the wife's disgust (made her drive it a couple of times, normally away from weddings!), before selling it to a crazy guy - in his 60s wearing a bomber jacket with nothing underneath except for some whisps of white hair accompanied chains around his midriff. Still see that car around when I'm home looking better than ever; I sold it for a bag of sand and it needed work..... Brave/crazy guy!
Got good Jag credentials myself; my old man was a proper Daley in the 70s with some property developments, a few shops including a sports shop (Crombie Sports if any Aberdonians are reading) - starting off with a Mk II and then followed with two XJ6 Jags. Me? In 2003 after getting a bonus from work, well what's to be done, pay off some credit cards, or buy a 1993 XJ40 Sovereign 4.0? Well, clearly, the Jag every time. Had it for eighteen months much to the wife's disgust (made her drive it a couple of times, normally away from weddings!), before selling it to a crazy guy - in his 60s wearing a bomber jacket with nothing underneath except for some whisps of white hair accompanied chains around his midriff. Still see that car around when I'm home looking better than ever; I sold it for a bag of sand and it needed work..... Brave/crazy guy!
Lot of these beautys for sale here in California- except they stopped selling the V12 in the 80s Series 3 over here for some reason.
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/ctd/2247915196....
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/ctd/2247404957....
Most of these are immaculate with no rust. Unfortunately some heathen peasants put some Chevy V8 POS in the engine bay
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/ctd/2247915196....
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/ctd/2247404957....
Most of these are immaculate with no rust. Unfortunately some heathen peasants put some Chevy V8 POS in the engine bay
Never owned one but always liked them as we choose one as our wedding car 21 years ago !Old series 3s have a "hard man" image over here also.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z_nA-F1mro
although I DO think the X300/X308 WILL follow in its footsteps, if not the smooth whimsical "Lexus like" modern range.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z_nA-F1mro
although I DO think the X300/X308 WILL follow in its footsteps, if not the smooth whimsical "Lexus like" modern range.
grahamw48 said:
I've owned two XJs (quite new ones at the time) back in the 70s when I'd be twenty something. A Series 1 and a Series 2.
Still prefer the earliest incarnation.
I used them for work, covering about 700 miles a week.
Here's my S2 back in the day when they had some class...oh, and handled beautifully when still on fresh suspension. Brakes were excellent too(for the doubters).
My boss had (from new) a S1 XJ12, and be in no doubt about it, that was a fast car.
The earlier poster comparing the performance to a Golf GTi is nonsense.
I'm talking about cars in first class condition here of course, not something ready for the scrapper.
Nonsense ?Still prefer the earliest incarnation.
I used them for work, covering about 700 miles a week.
Here's my S2 back in the day when they had some class...oh, and handled beautifully when still on fresh suspension. Brakes were excellent too(for the doubters).
My boss had (from new) a S1 XJ12, and be in no doubt about it, that was a fast car.
The earlier poster comparing the performance to a Golf GTi is nonsense.
I'm talking about cars in first class condition here of course, not something ready for the scrapper.
Edited by grahamw48 on Friday 4th March 14:06
His may have been a bin but I don't think a fit S2 would have been that much faster in standard trim, I reckon it did sixty in a about 8 seconds, the Golf wasnt as quick, that is true but it wasn't that far off, once over about 80 the Golf would run out of steam comparatively but the Jags werent all that fast, I have driven a V12 Manual E type and a couple of XJS's, to be honest I thought the six cylinder XJS felt quicker. Remember these things were quick for their day but still weighed getting on for two tonnes and had a 3 speed auto and the propensity to wander off tune.
They were the fastest attainable thing around in their time and a bit of a legend but nowadays they aren't even that powerful, the first XJS V12 did 0-60 in 7.8, thats not even warm hatch territory nowadays.
malc350 said:
I think you need to look under that bonnet and see what engine is there, maybe a 3.6 or 4.0 and I reckon they'd just about do that on a run.
I have owned 2 XJS V12s (both "HE" models with low miles and well serviced.) I only once beat 20 mpg and that was driving as if I had an egg on the throttle pedal at constant speed on a motorway. And mine were impecably maintained - I never even let the oil or air filters get dirty, plugs always replaced, timing spot on, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera...
I don't even think that Jaguar, in all the optimism of a manufacturer under "ideal test conditions" published an expected steady 56mph fuel consumption figure of more than 21 mpg.
I also remember reading about a fuel economy competition where someone entered one for a laugh and if I remember correctly it just about averaged 21 and a bit on a controlled steady speed course.
Both my XJSs were a few years apart and the fuel economy was identical.
There is no way, and I mean no way, that anyone would ever be able to achieve even 25mpg apart from contriving it by backing off the throttle and seeing "25" on the computer briefly.
And I really mean never. You will never achive that mpg in the real world.
Unless you put a 5 or 6 speed manual or 4 speed auto at least in place of that awful GM 400 slushbox. In fact it is the gearbox that completely ruins the car, stifling its performance and wasting fuel with its non-lockup torque converter. In fact it ruins the performance so much that I once drove a 3.6 with a 4 speed auto and it seemed every bit as quick whilst delivering much better fuel economy (maybe 25+ from that car on a run).
"25-27 from a V12 XJS and more on a run" I've heard it all now. You must be a car dealer or someone with an XJS for sale!
P.S. I love those cars, it's the fuel economy that probable will stop me ever getting one again.
And as for "what can go wrong?" Believe me, the £990 asking price will be the lowest bill the "lucky" buyer will ever see. Probably every single repair bill that car will need will be more than the initial purchase price...
Well said re. the fuel economy and GM box. I had a XJ12 HE for 3 years and figured I'd get 20 on a run and it only did 15 - until I fixed the vacuum advance which several specialists had missed.....I have owned 2 XJS V12s (both "HE" models with low miles and well serviced.) I only once beat 20 mpg and that was driving as if I had an egg on the throttle pedal at constant speed on a motorway. And mine were impecably maintained - I never even let the oil or air filters get dirty, plugs always replaced, timing spot on, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera...
I don't even think that Jaguar, in all the optimism of a manufacturer under "ideal test conditions" published an expected steady 56mph fuel consumption figure of more than 21 mpg.
I also remember reading about a fuel economy competition where someone entered one for a laugh and if I remember correctly it just about averaged 21 and a bit on a controlled steady speed course.
Both my XJSs were a few years apart and the fuel economy was identical.
There is no way, and I mean no way, that anyone would ever be able to achieve even 25mpg apart from contriving it by backing off the throttle and seeing "25" on the computer briefly.
And I really mean never. You will never achive that mpg in the real world.
Unless you put a 5 or 6 speed manual or 4 speed auto at least in place of that awful GM 400 slushbox. In fact it is the gearbox that completely ruins the car, stifling its performance and wasting fuel with its non-lockup torque converter. In fact it ruins the performance so much that I once drove a 3.6 with a 4 speed auto and it seemed every bit as quick whilst delivering much better fuel economy (maybe 25+ from that car on a run).
"25-27 from a V12 XJS and more on a run" I've heard it all now. You must be a car dealer or someone with an XJS for sale!
P.S. I love those cars, it's the fuel economy that probable will stop me ever getting one again.
And as for "what can go wrong?" Believe me, the £990 asking price will be the lowest bill the "lucky" buyer will ever see. Probably every single repair bill that car will need will be more than the initial purchase price...
Edited by malc350 on Friday 4th March 20:34
I once got 23 but that was really bimbling with the aircon off. If you avoid too much town driving then an average of 18 is to be expected.
I'm glad I had it but will never have another.
Good points;
Fabulous waft machine, comfiest seats ever.
Looks fabulous, not much else has that class.
Obviously quick, not really off the line, hot hatches will snap at your heels until about 70 then will lose out to the superior horsepower of the jag - it just keeps accelerating, and oh that noise....!
Mechanically quite reliable.
Bad points;
Have you seen the price of fuel?
Even one that doesn't require restoration will be rusty.
Mine was a similar low miles tidy one and the suspension was falling apart - blew at least a couple of thou on that. They ride so well that even iffy susp will not be obvious until MOT time. Once fixed it was transformed.
It really needed a better gearbox with an overdrive, 3000 rpm at just over 80 leptons was the same as a 1.5 Mk1 Golf I had at the same time which had 1/4 the power.
The aircon broke every year in July.
Money pit it was, but quite an experience. I do miss it and am considering a gas powered X300 which is a far more sensible choice.
grahamw48 said:
Yes, an old golf is the fastest bestest car on the planet. Whatever. 
Is that what I said ?I suppose a much older Jag is ?
Nah, its a nice old Dinosaur, I really like then but they just are not that fast, that isn't the point of them, effortless wafting in total luxury at high sustained speeds, I was just trying to get across that they are not fast by modern standards and the one a friend had was not that much quicker than a MK1 Golf GTI in a few goes from the traffic lights, just dont want anyone thinking that they are some kind of dragster due to the size of the engine, what do you not get ? get a decent XJ lined up against a decent Golf down Santa Pod and see what happens, I reckon the golf doing about seventeen seconds and a the Jag a little bit quicker which is what I said in the first place.
ks, but i was once told that these engines were so smooth it was possible to stand a coin on edge on the engine and rev it right up to the red line without the coin falling over.Top shedding!!
I used to own one of these (S2), and what a machine. At 70 you felt as if you could get out of the car and walk faster. My best mate borrowed it and lost his licence doing 135 down the M1; it took a special twin turbo 4.2ltr police xj6 to stop him - he honestly had no idea that he was going that fast.
I took it on holiday to the Black Forest covering the 460 miles from Calais in just under 5 hours (averaged 94 mph and 14 mpg) - there wasn't anything that could live with it and I felt as fresh as if I had just nipped down to the shops. But the sublime ride didn't make it sloppy. For a big car it could handle as well as any sports car of the day.
However, it very messily snapped a con rod some weeks later. I found a replacement engine quite cheaply, but it took my local garage 30 hours to change it; mainly just taking off ancillary parts before removing the engine. Even the battery had a cooling fan.
Just need to go online now to see how much the missus has in her savings account; I wonder if she'll notice a grand missing?
(oh and yes you could stand a coin on the engine - in fact when you pulled up at the lights if it wasn't for the rev counter you wouldn't know the engine was running. You could do over a ton and all you would hear was wind noise).
I used to own one of these (S2), and what a machine. At 70 you felt as if you could get out of the car and walk faster. My best mate borrowed it and lost his licence doing 135 down the M1; it took a special twin turbo 4.2ltr police xj6 to stop him - he honestly had no idea that he was going that fast.
I took it on holiday to the Black Forest covering the 460 miles from Calais in just under 5 hours (averaged 94 mph and 14 mpg) - there wasn't anything that could live with it and I felt as fresh as if I had just nipped down to the shops. But the sublime ride didn't make it sloppy. For a big car it could handle as well as any sports car of the day.
However, it very messily snapped a con rod some weeks later. I found a replacement engine quite cheaply, but it took my local garage 30 hours to change it; mainly just taking off ancillary parts before removing the engine. Even the battery had a cooling fan.
Just need to go online now to see how much the missus has in her savings account; I wonder if she'll notice a grand missing?
(oh and yes you could stand a coin on the engine - in fact when you pulled up at the lights if it wasn't for the rev counter you wouldn't know the engine was running. You could do over a ton and all you would hear was wind noise).
Edited by radlet6 on Saturday 5th March 19:53
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