The Best ///M/Barge/General Rant/Look at this/O/T(Vol XVIII)
Discussion
It's funny - R8 has never done it for me and I was trying to figure out why. I think it's because they're a "new thing" and I've never driven one. I've driven various 911s over many years (first go was a test drive in Johannesburg in 1999 I think) so always known them to be great...
On another topic I've just watched the evo video of the golf GTI club sport - it sounds like a manual one of them could be a very good car... Test drives of GTI and R on Tuesday...
On another topic I've just watched the evo video of the golf GTI club sport - it sounds like a manual one of them could be a very good car... Test drives of GTI and R on Tuesday...
anonymous said:
[redacted]
£30k will never be naff all. You obviously enjoy a nice position in life which renders it thus.No offence to the resident Pork-o-philes, but I don't see a "normal" 911 in the same vein as the R8, which is pitched somewhere between cooking Pork and the more exotic usual suspects.
I guess that's the joy of perceptions. I don't see the R8 at the same level you do - I obviously see it as something more akin to turbo or, whisper it, encroaching on GT3 territory, rather than lesser Carreras.
I've not lived with any of them on anything other than a fleeting basis, if at all, and in reality, design remit or not, it is unlikely many would be pressed in to service as a daily drive. Equally, there are a number of prevailing considerations of any purchase over and above the 'ring lap time and the extra two degrees inclination of the hairs on ones neck.
My point was not the depreciation per se, more the stagnation of R8 values relative to other things of the ilk (where that ilk is subject to personal views). I don't have sales figures for R8, 997, by type, 360/430, AM V8 et al. As a pure numbers game, the relative supply of more standard 911s is always more likely to suppress values. However, there's a limit as to how much more any of these can drop in absolute terms.
Comparisons and market position vary with time as cars age and the market evolves and this context alters, for some, how things are viewed relatively. The nearest comparison I could think of at the time was the original NSX, itself something the market now reflects on somewhat favourably. As new, the R8 V8 split the difference between the 997 Carrera and Turbo in terms of price and performance. Contemporary comparisons pitched it against 997 S variants, and it, IIRC, scalped them.
My point was that the R8 is out there as an NSX-like curio, not viewed as something outstanding at present. The echoes of the Honda are as numerous as they are clear to me. As I said, tempting.
I've not lived with any of them on anything other than a fleeting basis, if at all, and in reality, design remit or not, it is unlikely many would be pressed in to service as a daily drive. Equally, there are a number of prevailing considerations of any purchase over and above the 'ring lap time and the extra two degrees inclination of the hairs on ones neck.
My point was not the depreciation per se, more the stagnation of R8 values relative to other things of the ilk (where that ilk is subject to personal views). I don't have sales figures for R8, 997, by type, 360/430, AM V8 et al. As a pure numbers game, the relative supply of more standard 911s is always more likely to suppress values. However, there's a limit as to how much more any of these can drop in absolute terms.
Comparisons and market position vary with time as cars age and the market evolves and this context alters, for some, how things are viewed relatively. The nearest comparison I could think of at the time was the original NSX, itself something the market now reflects on somewhat favourably. As new, the R8 V8 split the difference between the 997 Carrera and Turbo in terms of price and performance. Contemporary comparisons pitched it against 997 S variants, and it, IIRC, scalped them.
My point was that the R8 is out there as an NSX-like curio, not viewed as something outstanding at present. The echoes of the Honda are as numerous as they are clear to me. As I said, tempting.
get out!
So I just did a search on PH for 250bhp+ 5 door hot hatches, less than 3 years old, less than £30k, and this came up in the results. A 270hp 308GTI - I didn't even know such a thing existed...
Doesn't look like a bad looking car (to me anyway). It even gets a 4 star Evo review. Interesting.
Doesn't look like a bad looking car (to me anyway). It even gets a 4 star Evo review. Interesting.
rejn - supposed to b quite good those. Seem excellent value. I find myself balking slightly at Peugeot's distinctive (gawky/slapdash - arf) approach to dashboards and the whole relationship between the wheel (a bit "ugh" in itself, small and chintzy) and the binnacle (main dials oddly placed and eveything too small) looks off to me, but then I've not tried one. 270bhp from a 1.6 is incredible if it lasts as long as something bigger and slightly less stressed. I have a feeling that it won't though....
Amazing what you can get in terms of cooking cars for sub £30-35k these days - even if the badging or whatever doesn't do it for you, cars have come a long way since the 1980s-1990s and much of progress has been good (safety, kit, emissions (ugh), affordability). Shame driving standards seem to be going the other way - wonder if there's a correlation...
Amazing what you can get in terms of cooking cars for sub £30-35k these days - even if the badging or whatever doesn't do it for you, cars have come a long way since the 1980s-1990s and much of progress has been good (safety, kit, emissions (ugh), affordability). Shame driving standards seem to be going the other way - wonder if there's a correlation...
ferrisbueller said:
No offence to the resident Pork-o-philes, but I don't see a "normal" 911 in the same vein as the R8, which is pitched somewhere between cooking Pork and the more exotic usual suspects.
I'll second that. Was surprised the R8 had got so 'cheap'! They look fab to my eyes. Much more presence than a C4S (if that's your thing).
olly22n said:
Last thing I'll say on the 911/R8.
R8 is closer to supercar. 911 closer to sports car.
Hmmm, not sure I buy that. I like both, but I don't think there's much of a difference in the size of event of driving either.R8 is closer to supercar. 911 closer to sports car.
And on the R8 I've spent a bit of time in, it feels an eerily similar environment to my old S4, without the mutt-carrying ability.
Morning chaps,
Spent Sunday at The Warren Classic and Supercar Concours event which was absolutely fantastic, plus 4 friends each won their class which really made it for us. I went down in the prewar Vauxhall racer in convoy with friends, anyhoo, here's some pictures;
Overall winner from Italy (Alfa 6C)
Runner Up from Belgium (Fiat 8V)
Some randome pics
And us getting ready to go home in the early evening sunshine
Spent Sunday at The Warren Classic and Supercar Concours event which was absolutely fantastic, plus 4 friends each won their class which really made it for us. I went down in the prewar Vauxhall racer in convoy with friends, anyhoo, here's some pictures;
Overall winner from Italy (Alfa 6C)
Runner Up from Belgium (Fiat 8V)
Some randome pics
And us getting ready to go home in the early evening sunshine
Great Canfield, I went to a small meet at Thremhall Park near Takeley yesterday 'Pistons in the Park' some interesting stuff but quieter than usual and def not on the level you were at, decided to leave when people started to rev their engines including a guy in an Audi SQ5, go figure...
TheRocket said:
Great Canfield, I went to a small meet at Thremhall Park near Takeley yesterday 'Pistons in the Park' some interesting stuff but quieter than usual and def not on the level you were at, decided to leave when people started to rev their engines including a guy in an Audi SQ5, go figure...
I went to Thremhall onceOutput Flange said:
Anyway, ::Thread group buy?::
I published my probably heretical thoughts on all three cars elsewhere - suffice to say that my money wouldn't go towards any of the three cars.Lovely pics of stunning cars - thank you for posting L1oony.
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