RE: All-New Porsche 911 Breaks Cover
Discussion
Pugsey said:
jackal said:
Henry Fiddleton said:
The 997- feels too much like any modern German car. I test drove one, and honesty, on the way home in wifes 3 series could not feel/tell the difference (yes the Porshce AND the BMW are that close/good).
I agree with much of what you say but basically, beyond the very small anorak microcosm of internet forums, this is what people want. To me, a boxster or a basic 997 is just about the plainest dullest performance car on sale today... order it in metallic grey or dark blue as just about everyone does round my way and its even more generic and unexciting. Most people in life sit in the middle, live in the middle, are uncomfortable outside of the middle and a grey boxster that feels like every other german prestige car, is a doddle to drive, light to the touch and blends in with the crowd is exactly what they want.Old Porsches, new Ferraris.
Henry Fiddleton said:
Porshce has losts its way.
The 997- feels too much like any modern German car. I test drove one, and honesty, on the way home in wifes 3 series could not feel/tell the difference (yes the Porshce AND the BMW are that close/good).
If I need one car for future, that does everything I might go for a E90 M3. When I want a Porshce that feels like a Porsche, I will go for the 996 GT3 (any, I am not bothered).
Although this business model will help it sell millions- a one size fits all, and dilute the brand even further.
Porsche is a business and needs to make maximum profit. The Cayenne was the main reason most people said the brand was diltued and is now their most successful seller - selling more than all the other models put together. If this means they survive and can invest in sports cars great! I do not see it as losing their way.The 997- feels too much like any modern German car. I test drove one, and honesty, on the way home in wifes 3 series could not feel/tell the difference (yes the Porshce AND the BMW are that close/good).
If I need one car for future, that does everything I might go for a E90 M3. When I want a Porshce that feels like a Porsche, I will go for the 996 GT3 (any, I am not bothered).
Although this business model will help it sell millions- a one size fits all, and dilute the brand even further.
As for the Porsche 'one size fits all' and 'just like a BMW' I have to totally disagree.
1. Having owned BMW M series cars before, my biggest issue was 80% of the time in normal driving you may has well have been in a 320d/520d as when not hooning they are very close to their lesser siblings. A 911 is always a 911 even when stuck in traffic.
2. one size fits all? people go on and on about how many 911 variants there are. The reason for this is that you can tailor your 911 to what you want it for. Simple C2? 4WD? Turbo? GT track/road model? RS track focussed? Cab? Targa?
MrTickle said:
Porsche is a business and needs to make maximum profit. The Cayenne was the main reason most people said the brand was diltued and is now their most successful seller - selling more than all the other models put together. If this means they survive and can invest in sports cars great! I do not see it as losing their way.
2. one size fits all? people go on and on about how many 911 variants there are. The reason for this is that you can tailor your 911 to what you want it for. Simple C2? 4WD? Turbo? GT track/road model? RS track focussed? Cab? Targa?
True to an extent. However, with the 4dr Porshce, the SUV doing their job and selling well- they could have made the 911 focused from the start and not need the GT/4wd/targa/RS etc. The 911s get a lot of flack now, too many on the road, boring, middle aged drivers etc. 2. one size fits all? people go on and on about how many 911 variants there are. The reason for this is that you can tailor your 911 to what you want it for. Simple C2? 4WD? Turbo? GT track/road model? RS track focussed? Cab? Targa?
Also to point 2, does that make the 911 any different to a 3 series?
You buy a basic 3 series which is as dull as dish water, and pick a spec to suit you, say an M3.
You a basic 991, which is not dull as dish water, but passive, and pick a spec to suit you, say a GT3.
Notice the similarities? Anyway I am sure its great and I said earlier, if Porsche took my view then it would be bankrupt by now- just a shame the 911 has lost SOME of the its u.s.p.
Like the profile, don't like the front, looks too big, as does the rear which is too high for a 911. Definitely need to get rid of PORSCHE 911 Carrera off the back too, I don't really think anyone needs badges to tell them what they're looking at! Porsche OR 911 OR Carrera would surely do?!?!
I also hope that whoever said the 7 speed manual is a 'manualised auto' is wrong too! A 911 with no proper manual 'box option could spell the end for the manual transmission!!
On the plus side, I hope 997 Carrera S prices drop as a result and I can get one for the Mrs (Ok so it would be for her during the week and for me on the weekend/track)
I also hope that whoever said the 7 speed manual is a 'manualised auto' is wrong too! A 911 with no proper manual 'box option could spell the end for the manual transmission!!
On the plus side, I hope 997 Carrera S prices drop as a result and I can get one for the Mrs (Ok so it would be for her during the week and for me on the weekend/track)
Pugsey said:
However, anyone who's driven any current Porsche be it Boxster, 997S, GT3, whatever and I mean DRIVEN will wonder what on earth you're on matey "feels like every other German prestige car"??????
Exactly. That's because 99% of performance car drivers have literally no idea where the limits of grip/traction are. They drive at 6/10th with one hand at the top of the wheel and think they are driving fast. So 6/10th in any modern Porsche will feel like any modern BMW but 9/10th in any modern Porsche is something else, which people will not experience as they don't realise what the car can do compared to a 3-series. Which is exactly why BMW did not have to fit 4-pots brakes on their V8 M3 !Henry Fiddleton said:
True to an extent. However, with the 4dr Porshce, the SUV doing their job and selling well- they could have made the 911 focused from the start and not need the GT/4wd/targa/RS etc. The 911s get a lot of flack now, too many on the road, boring, middle aged drivers etc.
Also to point 2, does that make the 911 any different to a 3 series?
You buy a basic 3 series which is as dull as dish water, and pick a spec to suit you, say an M3.
You a basic 991, which is not dull as dish water, but passive, and pick a spec to suit you, say a GT3.
Notice the similarities? Anyway I am sure its great and I said earlier, if Porsche took my view then it would be bankrupt by now- just a shame the 911 has lost SOME of the its u.s.p.
But what would make it more focused - just doing a GT3RS version? I have the GTS because I use it as my daily driver and need to put the kids in. I do agree on some comments regarding the 911 interior - looks lovely, but far better suited to a GT car than a sports car. Also to point 2, does that make the 911 any different to a 3 series?
You buy a basic 3 series which is as dull as dish water, and pick a spec to suit you, say an M3.
You a basic 991, which is not dull as dish water, but passive, and pick a spec to suit you, say a GT3.
Notice the similarities? Anyway I am sure its great and I said earlier, if Porsche took my view then it would be bankrupt by now- just a shame the 911 has lost SOME of the its u.s.p.
As for a basic 911 - they are fantastic cars, and in Gen2 997 pre GTS/GT3 were deemed by most hacks 'the pick of the range'. Not really comparible with a 320d IMO.
SWoll said:
fatboy b said:
tonym911 said:
This is going to look awesome on the road.
That'll be a first for a Porsche then.
troll....
steve_n said:
The front is hideous by the silly DRLs with a hint of Renault where the bodywork doesn't flow well but is all unconnected and like it's got woodworm.
Much prefer the 997 inside and out.
Am i the only one that thinks the clio 200 is a fantastic looking little car? The 991 looks good but im not 100% sure on the back end, looks overly complicated to me. 911's where always about simplicityMuch prefer the 997 inside and out.
I must admit, I've never found the Carrara GT a good looking car. The way the roof transitions into the engine cover just looks awkward and ungainly. It's much better with the roof off, but still not great to my eye.
I think the last truly good looking car that Porsche made was the 356, personally. The 918 is a nice looking car, if it ever makes production.
I think the last truly good looking car that Porsche made was the 356, personally. The 918 is a nice looking car, if it ever makes production.
Henry Fiddleton said:
The 997- feels too much like any modern German car. I test drove one, and honesty, on the way home in wifes 3 series could not feel/tell the difference (yes the Porshce AND the BMW are that close/good).
I genuinely don't mean to sound rude but that's an appalling admission for a PHer to make. Are you sure you shouldn't be doing road tests for the Daily Mail 'motoring' section?
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