RE: Why Bentley has to build its SUV
Discussion
telecat said:
Unfortunately it's rather typical of what the Germans think a "British" design should look like. It's all heritage and caricature. The BMW Designed Range Rover and Mini were typical as was the 75. Even Ford did it with the S-Type and XJ so German "Britishness" infected them as well. Here in the UK JLR freed of external control have now got the design right. You only need to look at the RR Sport and Evoque and the Jaguar XF and "new" XJ to see what the new JLR can do. They also "split" the marques so that each has it's identity. As previously stated VW's identities for it's various "Brands" is confused and detracts sales from SEAT. The Phaeton also suffers as it's seen as a budget Audi.
You are incorrect on the Mini, Range Rover, Jaguar S type and Rover 75. However what I think you mean is that the owners sanctioned designs that they felt fitted with their idea of 'Britishness'. Whoose fault is that? OURS. Let's stop being like Clarkson and support UK PLC engineering and manufacturing.This Bentley SUV is a gruesome turd that cannot be polished. It does not move the SUV market on at all. If were stylish, descrete and innovative then I could support it. As it is it a flash bit of lard that must be making W.O rock in his grave.
Come VAG design an interesting beautiful vehicle. JLR can do it on a fracion of the money.
The proportions of the Bentley SUV aren't too bad, but it's the detailing that doesn't gel. The problem is that they've dropped the cars' design cues onto an off roader, and they don't work.
I reckon that with a few tweaks to the skin, they could create something a lot more attractive.
But if Bentley were brave they could build something along the lines of the Strange Rover...
I reckon that with a few tweaks to the skin, they could create something a lot more attractive.
But if Bentley were brave they could build something along the lines of the Strange Rover...
B10 said:
telecat said:
Unfortunately it's rather typical of what the Germans think a "British" design should look like. It's all heritage and caricature. The BMW Designed Range Rover and Mini were typical as was the 75. Even Ford did it with the S-Type and XJ so German "Britishness" infected them as well. Here in the UK JLR freed of external control have now got the design right. You only need to look at the RR Sport and Evoque and the Jaguar XF and "new" XJ to see what the new JLR can do. They also "split" the marques so that each has it's identity. As previously stated VW's identities for it's various "Brands" is confused and detracts sales from SEAT. The Phaeton also suffers as it's seen as a budget Audi.
You are incorrect on the Mini, Range Rover, Jaguar S type and Rover 75. However what I think you mean is that the owners sanctioned designs that they felt fitted with their idea of 'Britishness'. Whoose fault is that? OURS. Let's stop being like Clarkson and support UK PLC engineering and manufacturing.This Bentley SUV is a gruesome turd that cannot be polished. It does not move the SUV market on at all. If were stylish, descrete and innovative then I could support it. As it is it a flash bit of lard that must be making W.O rock in his grave.
Come VAG design an interesting beautiful vehicle. JLR can do it on a fracion of the money.
telecat said:
Unfortunately it's rather typical of what the Germans think a "British" design should look like. It's all heritage and caricature. The BMW Designed Range Rover and Mini were typical as was the 75. Even Ford did it with the S-Type and XJ so German "Britishness" infected them as well. Here in the UK JLR freed of external control have now got the design right. You only need to look at the RR Sport and Evoque and the Jaguar XF and "new" XJ to see what the new JLR can do. They also "split" the marques so that each has it's identity. As previously stated VW's identities for it's various "Brands" is confused and detracts sales from SEAT. The Phaeton also suffers as it's seen as a budget Audi.
I think you're confusing what you like with good design. 2002 RR was a stonking success as a piece of design and as a vehicle, the Mini was very well received and was seen as a successful up dating of the original Mini it would have been un thinkable to do anything else, did you see the alternative in-house Rover concept for the mini???
I'll give you the S-type and the 75 though.
VW products are and have always been viewed as budget Audi's the Phaeton shouldn't suffer from that view as it simply shouldn't exist in the first place, it was merely a vanity project of Heir Piech.
Gorbyrev said:
Given the Bentley tradition of naming vehicles after places and the somewhat challenging brickwork, how about naming this after a prison - perhaps the Bentley Wormwood Scrubs or the Bentley Saughton. Ah - what about a French prison.
Ladies and gentlemen, the Bentley Bastille, complete with rigid safety cell and doing time drive. Keyless entry not an option.
surely, the Bentley Highpoint?Ladies and gentlemen, the Bentley Bastille, complete with rigid safety cell and doing time drive. Keyless entry not an option.
Edited by Gorbyrev on Monday 12th March 14:34
Wills2 said:
I think you're confusing what you like with good design.
2002 RR was a stonking success as a piece of design and as a vehicle, the Mini was very well received and was seen as a successful up dating of the original Mini it would have been un thinkable to do anything else, did you see the alternative in-house Rover concept for the mini???
I'll give you the S-type and the 75 though.
VW products are and have always been viewed as budget Audi's the Phaeton shouldn't suffer from that view as it simply shouldn't exist in the first place, it was merely a vanity project of Heir Piech.
I think the alternative in-house Rover concepts for the Mini were excellent and were true to the original in being innovative, economical and well packaged. Instead BMW chose persue a different market, which is fine and has been successful. How the Rover concept would have fared then is anyone's guess. However as a concept for today's world of high petrol prices etc. proves that Rover were ahead of the market.2002 RR was a stonking success as a piece of design and as a vehicle, the Mini was very well received and was seen as a successful up dating of the original Mini it would have been un thinkable to do anything else, did you see the alternative in-house Rover concept for the mini???
I'll give you the S-type and the 75 though.
VW products are and have always been viewed as budget Audi's the Phaeton shouldn't suffer from that view as it simply shouldn't exist in the first place, it was merely a vanity project of Heir Piech.
The Rover 75 was great bit of UK design and engineering thawted by BMW's comments at the launch, their general indifference, demise of MG Rover and many other factors.
Graemsay said:
The proportions of the Bentley SUV aren't too bad, but it's the detailing that doesn't gel. The problem is that they've dropped the cars' design cues onto an off roader, and they don't work.
I reckon that with a few tweaks to the skin, they could create something a lot more attractive.
But if Bentley were brave they could build something along the lines of the Strange Rover...
I like that and I've often wondered whether JLR could be persuaded to bring back the Rover name, but on a big 4WD estate capable of lugging a horsebox over rough ground, along the lines of the Audi A6 Allroad.I reckon that with a few tweaks to the skin, they could create something a lot more attractive.
But if Bentley were brave they could build something along the lines of the Strange Rover...
It could use the Range Rover styling cues, with no overt reference to the chrome-grille retirement-home Rovers of the '90s/'00s. Just picture a kind of lowered, lengthened Range Rover, with 'ROVER' written boldly in the RR font across the front of the bonnet. Slope the front end back, Evoque-style, to give it more of a car demeanour. Could even keep the Land-Rover badge in the grille so its official name is 'Land-Rover Rover'.
You could even build it on a 4WD-ised version of the new Jaguar XF Sportsbrake's platform. Jaguar are currently making noises about SUVs but given that they're joined at the hip with Land-Rover this defies all logic. Using the Rover element of Land-Rover to distance LR from anything they make that isn't quite so hardcore anf off-road would seem to make sense.
Wills2 said:
I think you're confusing what you like with good design.
2002 RR was a stonking success as a piece of design and as a vehicle, the Mini was very well received and was seen as a successful up dating of the original Mini it would have been un thinkable to do anything else, did you see the alternative in-house Rover concept for the mini???
Depends on your definition of 'design'. I'd say the MINI's success was down to good marketing, but it is a bad design. Too big on the outside, too small on the inside, therefore making a mockery of the design brief the name is connected to. Image, branding and marketing have nothing to do with design. Some of the best car designs have sold bugger-all units and made very little money but that hasn't made them 'bad design'. That's like evaluating artwork purely on its sale price.2002 RR was a stonking success as a piece of design and as a vehicle, the Mini was very well received and was seen as a successful up dating of the original Mini it would have been un thinkable to do anything else, did you see the alternative in-house Rover concept for the mini???
IMO they should have done something along the lines of the Toyota Aygo. The MINI isn't 'a bad car' - it's fun to drive, I'll give it that, and not completely impractical - but for what it is there are far better designs out there, even if they don't sell as well.
Trommel said:
Twincam16 said:
I like that and I've often wondered whether JLR could be persuaded to bring back the Rover name
I'm not sure you're getting the whole image thing. A marque's image isn't set in stone and it can be changed with bold design. Look at the Volvo C70, for example, or Citroen's latest DS range.
Twincam16 said:
Did you miss the rest of my post? Using the image of Range-Rover they could simultaneously completely rehabilitate the Rover name while branching out into markets that the Land-Rover name wouldn't make sense in.
Sticking a Rover badge on the front would be suicide. It isn't "aspirational", it's a dead brand, its associations are toxic. Land Rover (and Range Rover) are aspirational and desirable to the sort people who are going to buy (sorry, lease) them. Same for the hateful MINI.
It's not about staying true to brand identities or heritage or whatever you or I might wish. It's about flogging large volumes of flash tat to vacuous "status"-hungry idiots.
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