RE: Audi S3 saloon: Review
Discussion
okie592 said:
aka_kerrly said:
I'l be honest I really struggle with the "dull to drive bit." It always strikes me as a total cop out and something which journos use when they can't find a significant fault with a car!
Exactly, and when have Audi ever even said their cars are supposed to be fun to drive? Who decided cars should be fun to drive anyway? Why should a car be slagged off because it doesn't put you though a hedge. No ones ever arrived anywhere and said, golly that would of been more exililarating if I had died. [b]Their own motto means progress though technology, which they do push the boundaries with,[b]
BMWs is the ultimate driving machine which would suggest you should feel fobbed off if it was boring to drive.
And why the over sprung S-Line this suggests that tis is the 'look at me I'm the sporty variant' as a sports suspension system, the set up is s
te for ride qualiy and no trade off for the actual handling performance, its like a halford mod job 
Riyazc said:
Have an audi a6 avant.... it works... but thats about it... its purely functional, doesnt engage on any levels.
But then as a workhorse - its brilliant and does whats needed.
Would still consider an S3 and judge the car on it own merits, rather that then tar a car with the faults of others.
Exactly, I have a every day Work hourse it is does exactly what i want it to do for a workhourse, comfy, great ride for lots of mile munching.But then as a workhorse - its brilliant and does whats needed.
Would still consider an S3 and judge the car on it own merits, rather that then tar a car with the faults of others.
Ali_T said:
There was something about the new ECU on the S3 and Golf R being harder to flash and needing a piggyback unit? Or ABT are just doing it that way for larger gains than normal. I'd still want a Golf R over the S3, purely because it's not an Audi. I know, irrational, but the VW is a little more neutral in image.
They've said that about every car since the MK3... The tuners will find a way past it, granted its getting harder with can-bus, but now you can get MK6's OBD mapped, you'll get MK7's in due course, they've not been out long.Ali_T said:
I'd still want a Golf R over the S3, purely because it's not an Audi. I know, irrational, but the VW is a little more neutral in image.
These kind of comments make me laugh!! You are the very type that accuse the people that buy Audi's of buying only for 'image', yet you'd choose another car, regardless if you like it because you don't like the 'image'!
I thought most petrolheads buy their chosen mode of transport because they like the car, not because of perceived 'image' by a handful of interforum warriors!!
aka_kerrly said:
I'l be honest I really struggle with the "dull to drive bit." It always strikes me as a total cop out and something which journos use when they can't find a significant fault with a car!
It's simply fashion right now, and unfortunately, in some circles, there seems to be less interest in driving properly, and more interest in "hooniganism." Rants about "understeer" in threads like this serve as reliable red flags that said poster fits into the above category. Assuming a driver actually pushes a car like the S3 anywhere near 8-9/10ths and also experiences an objectionable amount of US at some point, I question why there never seems to be discussion on the driver's role in the situation, his/her understanding of chassis dynamics, input, and weight transfer, etc. In most cases where a car of the S3's caliber would produce objectionable handling traits, driver error is the issue.And "dull" is indeed a cop out. How many of the "journos" you reference have had HPDE instruction? How do their subjective assessments of what is fun really affect you?
scherzkeks said:
aka_kerrly said:
I'l be honest I really struggle with the "dull to drive bit." It always strikes me as a total cop out and something which journos use when they can't find a significant fault with a car!
It's simply fashion right now, and unfortunately, in some circles, there seems to be less interest in driving properly, and more interest in "hooniganism." Rants about "understeer" in threads like this serve as reliable red flags that said poster fits into the above category. Assuming a driver actually pushes a car like the S3 anywhere near 8-9/10ths and also experiences an objectionable amount of US at some point, I question why there never seems to be discussion on the driver's role in the situation, his/her understanding of chassis dynamics, input, and weight transfer, etc. In most cases where a car of the S3's caliber would produce objectionable handling traits, driver error is the issue.And "dull" is indeed a cop out. How many of the "journos" you reference have had HPDE instruction? How do their subjective assessments of what is fun really affect you?
It's like the myth that only RWD cars handle. Anything RWD and high powered in anything other than dry roads is a complete PITA from my personal experience and yes in generally normal driving, not hooning.
Doesn't mean I don't like them, don't appreciate the driving experience or go around slagging them or folk that own them, just not a personal choice to live with for me, especially where I live.
anyideas said:
Local one to my office only has the SE trim in the showroom. I'm usually in Weybridge/Cobham a few days a week so could pop into a showroom in that area.
Yes. They have a red s-line in the showroom. Looks really nice. Dealt with a really good bloke there. I can pm his name if you need it.
Nors said:
scherzkeks said:
aka_kerrly said:
I'l be honest I really struggle with the "dull to drive bit." It always strikes me as a total cop out and something which journos use when they can't find a significant fault with a car!
It's simply fashion right now, and unfortunately, in some circles, there seems to be less interest in driving properly, and more interest in "hooniganism." Rants about "understeer" in threads like this serve as reliable red flags that said poster fits into the above category. Assuming a driver actually pushes a car like the S3 anywhere near 8-9/10ths and also experiences an objectionable amount of US at some point, I question why there never seems to be discussion on the driver's role in the situation, his/her understanding of chassis dynamics, input, and weight transfer, etc. In most cases where a car of the S3's caliber would produce objectionable handling traits, driver error is the issue.And "dull" is indeed a cop out. How many of the "journos" you reference have had HPDE instruction? How do their subjective assessments of what is fun really affect you?
It's like the myth that only RWD cars handle. Anything RWD and high powered in anything other than dry roads is a complete PITA from my personal experience and yes in generally normal driving, not hooning.
Doesn't mean I don't like them, don't appreciate the driving experience or go around slagging them or folk that own them, just not a personal choice to live with for me, especially where I live.
Nors said:
Totally agree!!
It's like the myth that only RWD cars handle. Anything RWD and high powered in anything other than dry roads is a complete PITA from my personal experience and yes in generally normal driving, not hooning.
Doesn't mean I don't like them, don't appreciate the driving experience or go around slagging them or folk that own them, just not a personal choice to live with for me, especially where I live.
One amusing little factoid to add here since we are discussing the S3's handling characteristics and some of the responses we get in these threads from the Face-tweet generation on the subject: When Volkswagen introduced the MKVI Golf R in the litigation-happy US market, the initial cars contained non-defeatable version of Conti-Teves' ESP system. ASR was defeatable at the click of a button, but not ESP. The reason? At high speeds, and particularly in fast transitions the chassis is balanced to oversteer near its tractive limits. Ponder that one if you will. It's like the myth that only RWD cars handle. Anything RWD and high powered in anything other than dry roads is a complete PITA from my personal experience and yes in generally normal driving, not hooning.
Doesn't mean I don't like them, don't appreciate the driving experience or go around slagging them or folk that own them, just not a personal choice to live with for me, especially where I live.
aka_kerrly said:
Nors said:
scherzkeks said:
aka_kerrly said:
I'l be honest I really struggle with the "dull to drive bit." It always strikes me as a total cop out and something which journos use when they can't find a significant fault with a car!
It's simply fashion right now, and unfortunately, in some circles, there seems to be less interest in driving properly, and more interest in "hooniganism." Rants about "understeer" in threads like this serve as reliable red flags that said poster fits into the above category. Assuming a driver actually pushes a car like the S3 anywhere near 8-9/10ths and also experiences an objectionable amount of US at some point, I question why there never seems to be discussion on the driver's role in the situation, his/her understanding of chassis dynamics, input, and weight transfer, etc. In most cases where a car of the S3's caliber would produce objectionable handling traits, driver error is the issue.And "dull" is indeed a cop out. How many of the "journos" you reference have had HPDE instruction? How do their subjective assessments of what is fun really affect you?
It's like the myth that only RWD cars handle. Anything RWD and high powered in anything other than dry roads is a complete PITA from my personal experience and yes in generally normal driving, not hooning.
Doesn't mean I don't like them, don't appreciate the driving experience or go around slagging them or folk that own them, just not a personal choice to live with for me, especially where I live.
scherzkeks said:
One amusing little factoid to add here since we are discussing the S3's handling characteristics and some of the responses we get in these threads from the Face-tweet generation on the subject: When Volkswagen introduced the MKVI Golf R in the litigation-happy US market, the initial cars contained non-defeatable version of Conti-Teves' ESP system. ASR was defeatable at the click of a button, but not ESP. The reason? At high speeds, and particularly in fast transitions the chassis is balanced to oversteer near its tractive limits. Ponder that one if you will.
Yeah and so did the first TT, going backwards off an autobahn near you, only sorted by a tiny back spoiler and electronics, most other manufacturers develop the cars to handle on test tracks but Audi seem to rely on electronics instead (and btw if the legislators have their way no ESP will be switchable)Riyazc said:
Have an audi a6 avant.... it works... but thats about it... its purely functional, doesnt engage on any levels.
But then as a workhorse - its brilliant and does whats needed.
Would still consider an S3 and judge the car on it own merits, rather that then tar a car with the faults of others.
I have a 2013 A4 TDI and it is competent.. and thats it. What I do find though is the MPG Audi quote is bBut then as a workhorse - its brilliant and does whats needed.
Would still consider an S3 and judge the car on it own merits, rather that then tar a car with the faults of others.
ks, I get 32-34 MPG on a mainly urban run which is only a little better than what I got from a 2 litre petrol BMW 3 Series so not sure its really worth the minimal saving when you consider petrol is cheaper than the black stuff! I think a lot boils down to what makes a good racing car (on the track) is not necessarily what makes a good road car. The question is do you want a track car or a road car?
The likes of the S3 would be pretty poor on a racing circuit, where RWD would probably be better then FWD-biased AWD - but for a road car it's a very good design indeed: Extremely quick (as fast as a basic 911), easy to drive (doesn't constantly threaten to send you into a tree or backwards through a hedge if you overcook it a smidgen), reasonably economical for the performance, very practical, very comfortable/smart interior etc.
I prefer my road cars to be biased heavily towards road driving (whilst being quick of course) so I really rate the S3 but some may prefer something more biased towards the track car end of the spectrum.
The likes of the S3 would be pretty poor on a racing circuit, where RWD would probably be better then FWD-biased AWD - but for a road car it's a very good design indeed: Extremely quick (as fast as a basic 911), easy to drive (doesn't constantly threaten to send you into a tree or backwards through a hedge if you overcook it a smidgen), reasonably economical for the performance, very practical, very comfortable/smart interior etc.
I prefer my road cars to be biased heavily towards road driving (whilst being quick of course) so I really rate the S3 but some may prefer something more biased towards the track car end of the spectrum.
Lucas Ayde said:
I think a lot boils down to what makes a good racing car (on the track) is not necessarily what makes a good road car. The question is do you want a track car or a road car?
The likes of the S3 would be pretty poor on a racing circuit, where RWD would probably be better then FWD-biased AWD - but for a road car it's a very good design indeed: Extremely quick (as fast as a basic 911), easy to drive (doesn't constantly threaten to send you into a tree or backwards through a hedge if you overcook it a smidgen), reasonably economical for the performance, very practical, very comfortable/smart interior etc.
I prefer my road cars to be biased heavily towards road driving (whilst being quick of course) so I really rate the S3 but some may prefer something more biased towards the track car end of the spectrum.
Just as the 8P was quite rapid and tidy on the track, I have no doubt this model will be the same for any driver interested in setting times and driving clean, which is traditionally the point of track driving. Drivers who understand weight transfer, how to properly manage the steering and throttle inputs, and the approach required for getting the most out of the chassis will do quite well with the car and find it more than capable of matching any of its competitors.The likes of the S3 would be pretty poor on a racing circuit, where RWD would probably be better then FWD-biased AWD - but for a road car it's a very good design indeed: Extremely quick (as fast as a basic 911), easy to drive (doesn't constantly threaten to send you into a tree or backwards through a hedge if you overcook it a smidgen), reasonably economical for the performance, very practical, very comfortable/smart interior etc.
I prefer my road cars to be biased heavily towards road driving (whilst being quick of course) so I really rate the S3 but some may prefer something more biased towards the track car end of the spectrum.
RWD is definitely the be all and all for track. A well set up FWD car also deliver. Both cars will struggle in the wet. 4WD can deploy big power and I 'm sure this S3 will be producing 360 plus loads of torque. The only issue is controlling under steer. Again a Haldex controller gives access for a more rear wheel bias. For most this car on the road will be more than fast enough. For our climate and roads this is a compelling package. Even track lovers will see potential in this car. I do.
I'm sure the will be a huge aftermarket for this like there is off Golf 5, S3 and all things VAG !
I'm sure the will be a huge aftermarket for this like there is off Golf 5, S3 and all things VAG !
scherzkeks said:
Just as the 8P was quite rapid and tidy on the track, I have no doubt this model will be the same for any driver interested in setting times and driving clean, which is traditionally the point of track driving. Drivers who understand weight transfer, how to properly manage the steering and throttle inputs, and the approach required for getting the most out of the chassis will do quite well with the car and find it more than capable of matching any of its competitors.
It might match or beat its competitors for lap times on track, but if it's anything like the last A3 it won't be close to the best for fun. scherzkeks said:
Just as the 8P was quite rapid and tidy on the track, I have no doubt this model will be the same for any driver interested in setting times and driving clean, which is traditionally the point of track driving. Drivers who understand weight transfer, how to properly manage the steering and throttle inputs, and the approach required for getting the most out of the chassis will do quite well with the car and find it more than capable of matching any of its competitors.
Please no.Will there be an RS3 in saloon form?
I wasn't a big fan of the RS3 when I had one for a short while, but the one thing that stood out was the engine - you could keep the rest as far as I was concerned.
If they've got the packaging right, which it sounds like they have and they can stick the 5 pot back in, that should make a pretty decent car.
I wasn't a big fan of the RS3 when I had one for a short while, but the one thing that stood out was the engine - you could keep the rest as far as I was concerned.
If they've got the packaging right, which it sounds like they have and they can stick the 5 pot back in, that should make a pretty decent car.
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