RE: Porsche Cayman GT4 vs. Lotus Exige V6 Cup
Discussion
I actually think the report is pretty fair. Yes choosing badly surfaced roads for 2 supposedly track orientated sports cars is a stupid decision but i think dan trent and the ph crew know that so there is no need to dwell on what cant be changed.
And I agree that the exige cup really might have been a step to far as its really a track car that is road registered rather than the other way round and the Exige V6 S may have been a better comparison but again the article is what it is and that cant be changed.
I do actually own an Exige V6 S and it is my only car and is therefore used for the commute to work(80 mile round trip), shopping, trackdays and pretty much everything else you do in a car, so to those of you that are saying it cant be used as an everyday car im afraid you are wrong. I too looked at getting a cayman before getting the exige and although they are a very good car they just have no sense of occasion. The exige makes every trip feel exciting and i often take it out just for a drive which is something i just wouldnt do in a Porsche. For me it has replaced the old BMW Z4M as the everyday car and the GSXR1000 as the toy.
Now i will admit that i haven't driven the GT4 and im sure its a bit faster and holds the roads better than other caymans but this summer i spent a few days driving a friends Cayman GTS and i feel we would have had just as much fun in any larger engined bmw, merc or audi and for me that's were Porsche sits, alongside other premium luxury cruisers, the GT4 may be the halo model much like the M4 or the C63 buts that's all i see it as. I know this opinion will be smashed by the Porsche fan boys but that's how i feel about them. Porsche make absolutely fantastic cars but they just don't make a car that i want to drive and the main reason i looked at trying to order a GT4 originally was so that i could own it for 12 months then sell it for a premium, it would have purely been a financial decision. If in the future i need or want a fast luxury car Porsche will definitely be on the list but they aren't for me at the minute.
I believe the Exige sits in its own little bracket with very few if any real competitors. I don't think it competes with the luxury cruisers such as Porsche, BMW or maserati nor does it compete with supercars like the 458, and nor does it compete with sports cars like the gt86 and it doent compare to stripped back track cars like caterham either. For me it kind of fits in its own little mini stripped back supercar bracket. If you want a car that gives the great visual, aural (yes really that camry V6 can sound pretty tasty) and physical experience of a top end supercar with much lower purchase price and running costs then the exige is definitely worth a look. The new V6 really has come on leaps and bounds since the old S2 exiges in terms of both power and ride quality so if you haven't been in an exige V6 i suggest you give it a go, it might just be a whole lot better than you expected.
Well done to both Porsche and Lotus. You have both made fantastic cars and although they may appeal to different people for different reasons they are both fantastic in what they do.
And I agree that the exige cup really might have been a step to far as its really a track car that is road registered rather than the other way round and the Exige V6 S may have been a better comparison but again the article is what it is and that cant be changed.
I do actually own an Exige V6 S and it is my only car and is therefore used for the commute to work(80 mile round trip), shopping, trackdays and pretty much everything else you do in a car, so to those of you that are saying it cant be used as an everyday car im afraid you are wrong. I too looked at getting a cayman before getting the exige and although they are a very good car they just have no sense of occasion. The exige makes every trip feel exciting and i often take it out just for a drive which is something i just wouldnt do in a Porsche. For me it has replaced the old BMW Z4M as the everyday car and the GSXR1000 as the toy.
Now i will admit that i haven't driven the GT4 and im sure its a bit faster and holds the roads better than other caymans but this summer i spent a few days driving a friends Cayman GTS and i feel we would have had just as much fun in any larger engined bmw, merc or audi and for me that's were Porsche sits, alongside other premium luxury cruisers, the GT4 may be the halo model much like the M4 or the C63 buts that's all i see it as. I know this opinion will be smashed by the Porsche fan boys but that's how i feel about them. Porsche make absolutely fantastic cars but they just don't make a car that i want to drive and the main reason i looked at trying to order a GT4 originally was so that i could own it for 12 months then sell it for a premium, it would have purely been a financial decision. If in the future i need or want a fast luxury car Porsche will definitely be on the list but they aren't for me at the minute.
I believe the Exige sits in its own little bracket with very few if any real competitors. I don't think it competes with the luxury cruisers such as Porsche, BMW or maserati nor does it compete with supercars like the 458, and nor does it compete with sports cars like the gt86 and it doent compare to stripped back track cars like caterham either. For me it kind of fits in its own little mini stripped back supercar bracket. If you want a car that gives the great visual, aural (yes really that camry V6 can sound pretty tasty) and physical experience of a top end supercar with much lower purchase price and running costs then the exige is definitely worth a look. The new V6 really has come on leaps and bounds since the old S2 exiges in terms of both power and ride quality so if you haven't been in an exige V6 i suggest you give it a go, it might just be a whole lot better than you expected.
Well done to both Porsche and Lotus. You have both made fantastic cars and although they may appeal to different people for different reasons they are both fantastic in what they do.
This is a really good post, until the last paragraph!
Days Like These said:
Stop! Stop! Stop!
There are no two manufacturers (apart from perhaps Maserati and Aston?...) whose fans should have more in common with each other than Porsche and Lotus.
Even the 'lardy soulless' 991 Turbo S is very light, agile, and responsive for a leather-covered, turbocharged, 4wd GT.
Even the most meanly specced Elise is a well-designed, well set-up sports car.
Hell, the Macan Turbo takes an utterly anaesthetic Q5 (decent run-around it may be) and makes it go like stink, sound fantastic, look good, and handle like no car that looks like it does should.
Lotus will make an SUV, Porsche will make almost exclusively turbocharged cars soon. It doesn't matter, for both make excellent cars that may appeal to different pistonheads, but appeal very much to pistonheads. Even a Cayenne Diseaseal with no performance options will have had more attention paid to handling then any competitor.
Lotus chaps, having had a hangover in one of your fine products, never delude yourselves that (apart from maybe the Evora 400 vs GT4) you will make a better everyday sports car that can handle its own on a track than Porsche. Forget either of the two cars reviewed, the 911 has been doing that job for over 50 years. Also, Lotus fans who try to belittle the GT4 by pointing out it's propelled by a detuned Carerra S engine... It's still a potent Porsche flat six. Any real car bloke knows that is something non-trivial. Those who prefer the Lotus cannot justify it by accusing the GT4 of being some tarted up hairdresser's car, because the Lotus uses a tarted up Camry engine with a Toyota gearbox. The weight is more relevant, although given that the GT4 doesn't feel like a heavy car, or act like one, it could weigh as much as Prescott for all I care. Doesn't matter of course, because the Exige V6 is a great driver's car. Still, anyone who thinks the GT4 is anything other than a special, bone fide driver's car is either blinded by the badge, or a moron, or possibly both.
All that having been said, both cars being fantastic, I think this article raises a point. The Exige V6, and especially the Cup, might just be a little much for the sort of use I would be happy with in a GT4: Everyday summer car, and good weather weekends other times of year, perhaps every day if one has a short commute. To be honest, I think, however good it is, the Exige V6 doesn't make much sense. Track car? Caterham or Zenos (is that what they're called) or Elise. Road car? Much rather have an Evora 400 or Porsche.
Not sure how the Exige doesn't make sense. It's worth bearing in mind the non-Cup S (and Roadster) are less than £55k, for 300hp/ton performance which is far easier to live with than the track car options. The base Cup is £62k. For the more road biased option, the Evora 400 is a good chunk more at £72k. There are no two manufacturers (apart from perhaps Maserati and Aston?...) whose fans should have more in common with each other than Porsche and Lotus.
Even the 'lardy soulless' 991 Turbo S is very light, agile, and responsive for a leather-covered, turbocharged, 4wd GT.
Even the most meanly specced Elise is a well-designed, well set-up sports car.
Hell, the Macan Turbo takes an utterly anaesthetic Q5 (decent run-around it may be) and makes it go like stink, sound fantastic, look good, and handle like no car that looks like it does should.
Lotus will make an SUV, Porsche will make almost exclusively turbocharged cars soon. It doesn't matter, for both make excellent cars that may appeal to different pistonheads, but appeal very much to pistonheads. Even a Cayenne Diseaseal with no performance options will have had more attention paid to handling then any competitor.
Lotus chaps, having had a hangover in one of your fine products, never delude yourselves that (apart from maybe the Evora 400 vs GT4) you will make a better everyday sports car that can handle its own on a track than Porsche. Forget either of the two cars reviewed, the 911 has been doing that job for over 50 years. Also, Lotus fans who try to belittle the GT4 by pointing out it's propelled by a detuned Carerra S engine... It's still a potent Porsche flat six. Any real car bloke knows that is something non-trivial. Those who prefer the Lotus cannot justify it by accusing the GT4 of being some tarted up hairdresser's car, because the Lotus uses a tarted up Camry engine with a Toyota gearbox. The weight is more relevant, although given that the GT4 doesn't feel like a heavy car, or act like one, it could weigh as much as Prescott for all I care. Doesn't matter of course, because the Exige V6 is a great driver's car. Still, anyone who thinks the GT4 is anything other than a special, bone fide driver's car is either blinded by the badge, or a moron, or possibly both.
All that having been said, both cars being fantastic, I think this article raises a point. The Exige V6, and especially the Cup, might just be a little much for the sort of use I would be happy with in a GT4: Everyday summer car, and good weather weekends other times of year, perhaps every day if one has a short commute. To be honest, I think, however good it is, the Exige V6 doesn't make much sense. Track car? Caterham or Zenos (is that what they're called) or Elise. Road car? Much rather have an Evora 400 or Porsche.
PorscheGT4 said:
and after every track day you need to take it back to lotus to keep that very poor 1 year warranty.
what is the issue with the V6 Exige eating rear tyres ?
I know if you want to track it a few people now spend £15k to fit a working gear box :-p, but Motorsport places seem to state the C of G is too high and the car eats rears !
Seems the V6 Exige has a few of it own flaws ! and 1 year warranty is laughable esp on the Elise CUP road car !
£15k is a major commitment to fit that xtrac sequential box on top of a £65k car.
As I have stated lets hope some of these flaws are fixed on the charged cooled car, espthe gear change, not sure they will fix the high C of G or rear tyre eating problems.
When you really don't know what you are talking about, you should keep quiet.what is the issue with the V6 Exige eating rear tyres ?
I know if you want to track it a few people now spend £15k to fit a working gear box :-p, but Motorsport places seem to state the C of G is too high and the car eats rears !
Seems the V6 Exige has a few of it own flaws ! and 1 year warranty is laughable esp on the Elise CUP road car !
£15k is a major commitment to fit that xtrac sequential box on top of a £65k car.
As I have stated lets hope some of these flaws are fixed on the charged cooled car, espthe gear change, not sure they will fix the high C of G or rear tyre eating problems.
PorscheGT4 said:
and after every track day you need to take it back to lotus to keep that very poor 1 year warranty.
simply not true in the slightest. Lotus suggest if you track the car at regular intervals you may wish to change the oil more frequently due to the high stress environment of track driving but that would be the same for any car. The regular Exige V6S comes with a 3yr warranty which is better than the 2yr that is supplied by porsche. I believe porsche still purchase a 3rd party 3rd year warranty at your cost.PorscheGT4 said:
what is the issue with the V6 Exige eating rear tyres ?
Depends on your driving style. I know of people on the lotus forums that have done 6 trackdays and many road miles on the same rear tyres and other people that have only managed 2 trackdays. Either way its much better than cars such as 911 or nissan GTR which Ive heard often munch through tyres in a single day. Im sure if we really tried we could get the tires on any car to last just a few hundred milesPorscheGT4 said:
I know if you want to track it a few people now spend £15k to fit a working gear box :-p £15k is a major commitment to fit that xtrac sequential box on top of a £65k car.
Yes you can fit a sequential gearbox to the exige. Is it any cheaper to fit a sequential to a GT4? I suspect not. Ive done a fair few miles in my Exige V6 including a few track days and never had an issue with the gearbox. Yes its very mechanical in its feel and ill openly admits its not as slick as the manual in a porsche but its by no means bad and it definitely works.Im all for a bit of an open debate but don't see why you see the need to invent "facts" about other cars just because they arent to your taste. if you are going to contribute why not share your opinions or state actual facts rather than just slag off another products with made up stories. The exige is by no means perfect and it isnt suitable for everyone but it is a brilliant car to drive and im sure if you had a more open mind you may even realise its actually quite good even though it doesnt wear a porsche badge.
these are not made up comments
the service after a track day was from a Lotus dealer, one can only go on dealers advice esp if one wants to keep the very small 1 year warranty.
If that was wrong Lotus need to keep tabs on their dealers !
Still one year still sucks over the GT4's 3 year.
the eating rear tyres is from 2 Motorsport outfits, and not made up one bit, ie people who use and set up these cars for a living on track.
Only interesting as I do fancy the 2017 Charged cooled car, and now starting to get advice from people who REALLY use them.
when I tracked my S2 a set of tyres lasted ages, in fact the only reason to change was they went off at the front, causing understeer, not because tyres were worn.
This high C of G seems to pop up a lot, esp on the new 3-11
Better to get advice from people who race over blinkerd Lotus fan boys ;-p
the service after a track day was from a Lotus dealer, one can only go on dealers advice esp if one wants to keep the very small 1 year warranty.
If that was wrong Lotus need to keep tabs on their dealers !
Still one year still sucks over the GT4's 3 year.
the eating rear tyres is from 2 Motorsport outfits, and not made up one bit, ie people who use and set up these cars for a living on track.
Only interesting as I do fancy the 2017 Charged cooled car, and now starting to get advice from people who REALLY use them.
when I tracked my S2 a set of tyres lasted ages, in fact the only reason to change was they went off at the front, causing understeer, not because tyres were worn.
This high C of G seems to pop up a lot, esp on the new 3-11
Better to get advice from people who race over blinkerd Lotus fan boys ;-p
Edited by PorscheGT4 on Tuesday 8th September 12:08
So you can buy a Lotus which is better in some things than the GT4 but not quite as good in others. Whereas you cannot buy a GT4.
Oh and the Lotus is significantly cheaper.
Does this mean Lotus have got right alongside the best Porsche can make from being quite a way behind in a matter of a couple of years? Lets see what happens with the next generation of cars, will Lotus be better than the Porsche?
Oh and the Lotus is significantly cheaper.
Does this mean Lotus have got right alongside the best Porsche can make from being quite a way behind in a matter of a couple of years? Lets see what happens with the next generation of cars, will Lotus be better than the Porsche?
PorscheGT4 said:
these are not made up comments
the service after a track day was from a Lotus dealer, one can only go on dealers advice esp if one wants to keep the very small 1 year warranty.
If that was wrong Lotus need to keep tabs on their dealers !
Still one year still sucks over the GT4's 3 year.
the eating rear tyres is from 2 Motorsport outfits, and not made up one bit, ie people who use and set up these cars for a living on track.
Only interesting as I do fancy the 2017 Charged cooled car, and now starting to get advice from people who REALLY use them.
when I tracked my S2 a set of tyres lasted ages, in fact the only reason to change was they went off at the front, causing understeer, not because tyres were worn.
This high C of G seems to pop up a lot, esp on the new 3-11
Better to get advice from people who race over blinkerd Lotus fan boys ;-p
Drop some names then, who was the dealer, who are the motorsport outfits you speak of? I'm sure they won't mind you mentioning them.the service after a track day was from a Lotus dealer, one can only go on dealers advice esp if one wants to keep the very small 1 year warranty.
If that was wrong Lotus need to keep tabs on their dealers !
Still one year still sucks over the GT4's 3 year.
the eating rear tyres is from 2 Motorsport outfits, and not made up one bit, ie people who use and set up these cars for a living on track.
Only interesting as I do fancy the 2017 Charged cooled car, and now starting to get advice from people who REALLY use them.
when I tracked my S2 a set of tyres lasted ages, in fact the only reason to change was they went off at the front, causing understeer, not because tyres were worn.
This high C of G seems to pop up a lot, esp on the new 3-11
Better to get advice from people who race over blinkerd Lotus fan boys ;-p
Edited by PorscheGT4 on Tuesday 8th September 12:08
PorscheGT4 said:
these are not made up comments
the service after a track day was from a Lotus dealer, one can only go on dealers advice esp if one wants to keep the very small 1 year warranty.
If that was wrong Lotus need to keep tabs on their dealers !
Still one year still sucks over the GT4's 3 year.
the eating rear tyres is from 2 Motorsport outfits, and not made up one bit, ie people who use and set up these cars for a living on track.
Only interesting as I do fancy the 2017 Charged cooled car, and now starting to get advice from people who REALLY use them.
when I tracked my S2 a set of tyres lasted ages, in fact the only reason to change was they went off at the front, causing understeer, not because tyres were worn.
This high C of G seems to pop up a lot, esp on the new 3-11
Better to get advice from people who race over blinkerd Lotus fan boys ;-p
I am no fanboy but you really do chat some sthe service after a track day was from a Lotus dealer, one can only go on dealers advice esp if one wants to keep the very small 1 year warranty.
If that was wrong Lotus need to keep tabs on their dealers !
Still one year still sucks over the GT4's 3 year.
the eating rear tyres is from 2 Motorsport outfits, and not made up one bit, ie people who use and set up these cars for a living on track.
Only interesting as I do fancy the 2017 Charged cooled car, and now starting to get advice from people who REALLY use them.
when I tracked my S2 a set of tyres lasted ages, in fact the only reason to change was they went off at the front, causing understeer, not because tyres were worn.
This high C of G seems to pop up a lot, esp on the new 3-11
Better to get advice from people who race over blinkerd Lotus fan boys ;-p
Edited by PorscheGT4 on Tuesday 8th September 12:08
te. Others on here have already questioned the bks you talk so I won't bother.But as an example of the above, I am not sure anyone outside the factory has actually driven a 3-11 so how do you know anything about its CoG? Or it is you have had access and actually driven it?
I presume it is pure hearsay and if so, how can anyone take what you say seriously? bobo said:
HokumPokum said:
no no.. i prefer the tarted up toyota engine with the elise interior that you can sell me at 63k... and add in the superb dampers and racing kit..
why would I want to spend money on crappy german motors when british stuff is more rare and unique and better.....
i must be an idiot...................
You tell me ? Seems they are comparing favourably the turnip farmers v hetro 2012 offering to Stuttgarts latest finest thing since a 2.7 ? According to some on here.....why would I want to spend money on crappy german motors when british stuff is more rare and unique and better.....
i must be an idiot...................
But wait ! What gives with the luxo barge gear ratios? Wtf is that all about ??????
you know how good that product is.
Days Like These said:
leglessAlex said:
Days Like These said:
...To be honest, I think, however good it is, the Exige V6 doesn't make much sense...
Eh?! If you want a small, light(or at least lighter than most), two seat, really fast sports car the V6 Exige makes a huge amount of sense. What else is there out there that has similar performance for the price, and delivers similar thrills? The Cayman or Boxster GTS are the only ones out there really that might deliver similar thrills for the money and yet they are considerably slower. Not to mention Gales seems to be making sure the cars are better put together and, rather importantly for many people, easier to get into and out of.
Plus, as you say, it's good. In Sport Auto mag (a German mag no less) they rated the Exige S as the better car next to the Cayman GT4 and it drew with the Pagani Huyra(spelling?) in EVO Car of the Year.
Exige (cup or otherwse) is a good car but too expensive for what it is. The 1-year warranty isn't a good start but that's not the main issue. The gearbox and engine is. If you want to charge more at least throw in the sequential........ the toyota engine/gearbox combo whilst reliable and cheap to replace just isn't special enough.
good thing they only sell so few. otherwise prices would have to adjust.
HokumPokum said:
yes. the gear ratios... it is the cherry on top. if that's the only issue.................
you know how good that product is.
keep your pink g string on old chap! you know how good that product is.
its just a discussion.
i didnt write this article that shows how some older lotus product built by turnip farmers powered by a camery v6 and diesel g box can live with porsches finest thing since sliced bread ! i do wonder how the cheaper v6 won joint ecoty along with a Pagani even though it 'eats its rears' lol
HokumPokum said:
This makes a lot of sense.
Exige (cup or otherwise) is a good car but too expensive for what it is. The 1-year warranty isn't a good start but that's not the main issue. The gearbox and engine is. If you want to charge more at least throw in the sequential........ the toyota engine/gearbox combo whilst reliable and cheap to replace just isn't special enough.
good thing they only sell so few. otherwise prices would have to adjust.
The standard Exige is £54k and considerably faster than most two seat coupes at that price. Only the Cup has one year, the standard Exige has a three year warranty. Exige (cup or otherwise) is a good car but too expensive for what it is. The 1-year warranty isn't a good start but that's not the main issue. The gearbox and engine is. If you want to charge more at least throw in the sequential........ the toyota engine/gearbox combo whilst reliable and cheap to replace just isn't special enough.
good thing they only sell so few. otherwise prices would have to adjust.
Your 'not special enough' comment holds up on paper but not, it seems, in the real world. As I said earlier, it drew with the Huayra for EVO Car of the Year and that doesn't tend to happen unless it's a very special car.
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