RE: BMW M2: Review

[matt21]

BMW can build as many M2's as they want. If there was no supply constraint what would the demand be as a percentage of everything else they build in Liepzig? 1-2% max I would have thought. It's the diesels that the mass population want. A few extra M2's will make no difference in the grand scheme of things, plus all manufacturers will favour high margin cars if the demand is there.

I actually think demand will be lower than the M4. True enthusiasts like us are such a small market, particularly when you consider who could actually sink the best part of £50k into one. Look at the typical M4 owner these days, it's a status thing.

For me BMW are doing an Apple. Constraining initial supply which will slowly ramp up when the excitement has died down. It's not a bad thing, but I can assure you in 12mths you could place and order and get it within 3. That's when I will consider a purchase.

Simple demand and supply logic

[Kawasicki]

Fire99 said:

Kawasicki said:

The M3 is usually the most luxuriously appointed, heaviest version of the 3 series, at every generation. I think that the E46 felt much heavier and luxurious than the E36 did.

I don't think an E30 M3 was heavier or more luxurious than a 325i SE.. Just to buck the trend.

So, what makes you think a std E30 m3 was lighter than a standard 325i?

[Legacywr]

Onedesi said:

Legacywr said:

As a drivers car, I wonder how much better than the 30k Focus RS it is, if any?

Am I the first to bring this up?

I love the styling of the M2, aggressive and purposeful

The question of vs focus RS has crossed my mind a million times as the £15k differential is a fair old amount - any thoughts?

Well, I have a Focus RS on order, it will be my co car, so the price diference impacts in many ways!

It will be interesting to see them tested, back to back, which I'm sure will happen.

[kmack]

matt21 said:

BMW can build as many M2's as they want. If there was no supply constraint what would the demand be as a percentage of everything else they build in Liepzig? 1-2% max I would have thought. It's the diesels that the mass population want. A few extra M2's will make no difference in the grand scheme of things, plus all manufacturers will favour high margin cars if the demand is there.

Very true!

[kambites]

Kawasicki said:

So, what makes you think a std E30 m3 was lighter than a standard 325i?

Well it had two less cylinders, at least.

[s m]

kambites said:

Kawasicki said:

So, what makes you think a std E30 m3 was lighter than a standard 325i?

Well it had two less cylinders, at least.

They made up for it with heavier stuff at the corners though - all beefed up

[DMC2]

So what I take from that and other reviews is that the M2 has an uninspiring engine, uninspiring interior, crap steering feel, crap stereo enhanced engine sound, crap rebound and weighs the same as an M4. Wow, sounds like a winner....

[giger]

I don't remember reading any of that stuff! The main comment about the engine is that it isn't the S55. The comments from all the reviews are hugely positive. The main let down for me is the lack of a M3/M4 style sports seat.

Interior looks great, my last beemer was a great place to be. Carbon and alcantara as standard, and lots of toys (in-car go pro connectivity looks great!) I would be disappointed spending £45k to get a stripped out interior, with no satnav, leather etc.

Need a UK road review to get to the bottom of the suspension, but there is also nothing negative in the review so far.

[revtime]

DMC2 said:

So what I take from that and other reviews is that the M2 has an uninspiring engine, uninspiring interior, crap steering feel, crap stereo enhanced engine sound, crap rebound and weighs the same as an M4. Wow, sounds like a winner....

The fact that the UK car press have given it:

EVO - 4.5/5
Autocar - 4.5/5.0
Auto Express - 5/5
Car magazine - 5/5
Telegraph - 5/5

Shows that this is something special.
Also no where have I seen the engine been described as 'uninspiring', and the steering, sound and rebound as 'crap'.

[Pommygranite]

DMC2 said:

So what I take from that and other reviews is that the M2 has an uninspiring engine, uninspiring interior, crap steering feel, crap stereo enhanced engine sound, crap rebound and weighs the same as an M4. Wow, sounds like a winner....

You've just made all that st up.

Every review has been absolutely glowing so yeah,it actually does sound like a winner.

[DMC2]

Pommygranite said:

DMC2 said:

So what I take from that and other reviews is that the M2 has an uninspiring engine, uninspiring interior, crap steering feel, crap stereo enhanced engine sound, crap rebound and weighs the same as an M4. Wow, sounds like a winner....

You've just made all that st up.

Every review has been absolutely glowing so yeah,it actually does sound like a winner.

Haha of course I just made it up.

Autocar... on the interior
At this money, though, the overall quality of the interior is disappointing. The brittle back plastic adorning the dashboard and centre console looks cheap, as do other items, including certain controls and trims adorning the doors. For a car wearing the M badge you expect more sophisticated materials and a greater sense of occasion.

Car and Driver... On the steering
information coming through the light steering is distant and faint. The effort is higher in Sport mode, but there’s no progressive rise in effort in this setting when turning into a corner. Too often the car is gripping hard—or worse yet, slipping—while the steering tells you nothing.

Autocar... On the suspension
Overall compliance is nicely judged, although it does suffer from some annoying surface sensitivity and bump-thump due to aggressive rebound properties.


Car and Driver... On the sound
The wide tires sing over most surfaces, and synthetic engine noise throbs through the stereo speakers. Set the cruise at 80 mph and there’s a deep and ever-present hum in your ears. What we’d really like to hear is the turbine snarl of the M2’s inline-six under pressure, instead of the automotive equivalent of elevator Muzak.

I could go on with more of the same from other reviews but bored now of proving you wrong. I'm also bored of reviewers saying a car is great, except for etc etc.

[hufggfg]

Pommygranite said:

DMC2 said:

So what I take from that and other reviews is that the M2 has an uninspiring engine, uninspiring interior, crap steering feel, crap stereo enhanced engine sound, crap rebound and weighs the same as an M4. Wow, sounds like a winner....

You've just made all that st up.

Every review has been absolutely glowing so yeah,it actually does sound like a winner.

While the reviews overall are very positive, if you dig down into the detail, they do say a lot of what DMC2 has said above. Engine isn't bad for a modern turbo, is powerful etc, but not exactly characterful, and certainly won't go down as one of the great engines. Steering again isn't bad by modern BMW standards (pretty low bar here), but as per modern EPAS systems, doesn't exactly have much feel. Interior is perfectly nice place to be, though a little dull if anything (personally this doesn't really matter to me that much, how it drives is more important). Weight while slightly less than an M4, again isn't exactly something to write home about.

I really hope it's one of those cars that adds up to more than the sum of its parts, and it may well be, but unfortunately a lot of the things that have to be done these days in the name of efficiency and "useable performance" are detrimental when it comes to making great drivers cars.

I have an M2 order in (2nd at dealership and due mid-May I think), but not 100% sure how much I actually want it.... I'm sure it won't be bad, but I'm wondering if I might prefer a well spec'd E92 M3.... hmmmmmm....

[revtime]

DMC2 said:

Haha of course I just made it up.

Autocar... on the interior
At this money, though, the overall quality of the interior is disappointing. The brittle back plastic adorning the dashboard and centre console looks cheap, as do other items, including certain controls and trims adorning the doors. For a car wearing the M badge you expect more sophisticated materials and a greater sense of occasion.

Car and Driver... On the steering
information coming through the light steering is distant and faint. The effort is higher in Sport mode, but there’s no progressive rise in effort in this setting when turning into a corner. Too often the car is gripping hard—or worse yet, slipping—while the steering tells you nothing.

Autocar... On the suspension
Overall compliance is nicely judged, although it does suffer from some annoying surface sensitivity and bump-thump due to aggressive rebound properties.


Car and Driver... On the sound
The wide tires sing over most surfaces, and synthetic engine noise throbs through the stereo speakers. Set the cruise at 80 mph and there’s a deep and ever-present hum in your ears. What we’d really like to hear is the turbine snarl of the M2’s inline-six under pressure, instead of the automotive equivalent of elevator Muzak.

I could go on with more of the same from other reviews but bored now of proving you wrong. I'm also bored of reviewers saying a car is great, except for etc etc.

I still think using the word 'crap' to describe certain elements is overkill based on singular held views which do not match the general consensus of the majority of journo's - The 'Car and Driver' piece certainly falls into this category.

Either way BMW have certainly created demand, if you walk into a dealer today you're looking at late 2017 / early 2018 delivery.
What we need is Chris Harris behind the wheel in the black mountains, that would be epic!

[Pommygranite]

DMC2 said:

Pommygranite said:

DMC2 said:

So what I take from that and other reviews is that the M2 has an uninspiring engine, uninspiring interior, crap steering feel, crap stereo enhanced engine sound, crap rebound and weighs the same as an M4. Wow, sounds like a winner....

You've just made all that st up.

Every review has been absolutely glowing so yeah,it actually does sound like a winner.

Haha of course I just made it up.

Autocar... on the interior
At this money, though, the overall quality of the interior is disappointing. The brittle back plastic adorning the dashboard and centre console looks cheap, as do other items, including certain controls and trims adorning the doors. For a car wearing the M badge you expect more sophisticated materials and a greater sense of occasion.

Car and Driver... On the steering
information coming through the light steering is distant and faint. The effort is higher in Sport mode, but there’s no progressive rise in effort in this setting when turning into a corner. Too often the car is gripping hard—or worse yet, slipping—while the steering tells you nothing.

Autocar... On the suspension
Overall compliance is nicely judged, although it does suffer from some annoying surface sensitivity and bump-thump due to aggressive rebound properties.


Car and Driver... On the sound
The wide tires sing over most surfaces, and synthetic engine noise throbs through the stereo speakers. Set the cruise at 80 mph and there’s a deep and ever-present hum in your ears. What we’d really like to hear is the turbine snarl of the M2’s inline-six under pressure, instead of the automotive equivalent of elevator Muzak.

I could go on with more of the same from other reviews but bored now of proving you wrong. I'm also bored of reviewers saying a car is great, except for etc etc.

You sound very bored.

Perhaps find something less boring to be discussing.

[revtime]

hufggfg said:

While the reviews overall are very positive, if you dig down into the detail, they do say a lot of what DMC2 has said above. Engine isn't bad for a modern turbo, is powerful etc, but not exactly characterful, and certainly won't go down as one of the great engines. Steering again isn't bad by modern BMW standards (pretty low bar here), but as per modern EPAS systems, doesn't exactly have much feel. Interior is perfectly nice place to be, though a little dull if anything (personally this doesn't really matter to me that much, how it drives is more important). Weight while slightly less than an M4, again isn't exactly something to write home about.

I really hope it's one of those cars that adds up to more than the sum of its parts, and it may well be, but unfortunately a lot of the things that have to be done these days in the name of efficiency and "useable performance" are detrimental when it comes to making great drivers cars.

I have an M2 order in (2nd at dealership and due mid-May I think), but not 100% sure how much I actually want it.... I'm sure it won't be bad, but I'm wondering if I might prefer a well spec'd E92 M3.... hmmmmmm....

I too have an M2 on order, unfortunately mine is not expected till October, despite me putting down my deposit last September

Edited by revtime on Friday 19th February 23:05

[RicM5]

pork911 said:

a flipper's investment AND a warranty. hmmm

Really..........
You'd have to be a fool not to think that you could enjoy a car like this for potentially up to a year and then sell it for at least what you paid for it and have the peace of mind of a " whatever needs sorting BMW warranty"
It's a second car for me so will never have high miles and apologies if someone won't wait for the build time and happens to offer more than list..... Does that make me a bad person ?????😳🍻

[Fire99]

Kawasicki said:

Fire99 said:

Kawasicki said:

The M3 is usually the most luxuriously appointed, heaviest version of the 3 series, at every generation. I think that the E46 felt much heavier and luxurious than the E36 did.

I don't think an E30 M3 was heavier or more luxurious than a 325i SE.. Just to buck the trend.

So, what makes you think a std E30 m3 was lighter than a standard 325i?

That wasn't your point... "Most luxuriously appointed, heaviest version of the 3 series"... My point was that in the case of the E30 you could get a more luxuriously appointed & heavier 3 series than the M3... A few if you included the X models..

[VeeFource]

In many ways this car embodies what would be my perfect car. But I just can't get past how extreme it all is for the road in terms of the huge tyres, electronic aids and sheer power. A criticism of many modern performance cars I suppose, but surely unless you go on regular track days, most of the time you're going to be fairly bored on the road? I mean once the novelty of the acceleration has worn off, how often are you going to be able get close to the limits of traction which is where most of the enduring fun of a car is to be had? I know many will scoff at this and in terms of engineering accomplishment there's no comparison, but on the road I can't help but think my quarter of the price Swift Sport would still be more fun day to day :S

[SidewaysSi]

VeeFource said:

In many ways this car embodies what would be my perfect car. But I just can't get past how extreme it all is for the road in terms of the huge tyres, electronic aids and sheer power. A criticism of many modern performance cars I suppose, but surely unless you go on regular track days, most of the time you're going to be fairly bored on the road? I mean once the novelty of the acceleration has worn off, how often are you going to be able get close to the limits of traction which is where most of the enduring fun of a car is to be had? I know many will scoff at this and in terms of engineering accomplishment there's no comparison, but on the road I can't help but think my quarter of the price Swift Sport would still be more fun day to day :S

I mostly agree but that's the modern motor car for you.

The M2 seems like a fine car but for me, something like the Cayman GT4 is a lot better. And probably cheaper to run too once you account for residuals.

[cerb4.5lee]

Kawasicki said:

cerb4.5lee said:

-Z- said:

I.e. that same process that happened to the e92 M3, intial underwhelming performances giving way to the the new opinion that it was an all time great.

I am not sure many would class the E92 M3 as an all time great to be fair, the E46 M3 was recognised as being a nice sweet spot but the E92 M3 took the M3 in the direction of a fairly big and heavy cruiser for me and in a similar mould to the M4.

The M3 is usually the most luxuriously appointed, heaviest version of the 3 series, at every generation. I think that the E46 felt much heavier and luxurious than the E36 did.

I think that is the biggest problem to be fair, most people I would imagine associate the M3 as a sporty type of car rightly or wrongly and the fact that it is the most luxuriously appointed and the heaviest version is a big part of the problem arguably.

What I experienced with my E92 M3 was that it focused on being comfortable and it was happy to have all the mod cons but obviously that adds weight and takes away some of the sportiness, and the market has dictated that customers want something that is heavy and spec laden over something that is driver focused for sure.

Hence why both the M2/M4 are practically the same weight and punters don't want a drivers car they want comfort and all the mods cons, and sadly that is why we haven't had another M3 like the E46 M3 CSL since.