RE: New McLaren Senna revealed
Discussion
As an aside from it looking like Homer Simpson likes this sort of car ( with MSO "ultra lightweight" wood paneling down the side) , the rear diffuser looks very tame compared to the P1
The Senna has a larger rear wing than the P1, and smaller rear diffuser. Would be interesting to know why they chose that route given prior experience with the P1. This is why this car is fascinating. the more you look at it the more there is to ponder.
The Senna has a larger rear wing than the P1, and smaller rear diffuser. Would be interesting to know why they chose that route given prior experience with the P1. This is why this car is fascinating. the more you look at it the more there is to ponder.
Edited by Gandahar on Sunday 10th December 14:23
Quickmoose said:
...so now Lambo/Ferrari/Porsche/McLaren make 300 ugly as sin, mega wow trinket laden tech fest for only £1m...and they're all sold already..
and?
Paint a painting...its designed to make you look and think...hang it on a wall and do that.
Build a building...designed to allow you live in it and perhaps consider how it does that..... move in and do that
Write a piece of music...designed to make you listen and feel.... so you turn it on and listen
Make an amazing desirable car that performs beyond all others...... but make it goping and put it in dry storage...that's a fail in my book.
"Paint a painting...its designed to make you look and think...hang it on a wall and do that"and?
Paint a painting...its designed to make you look and think...hang it on a wall and do that.
Build a building...designed to allow you live in it and perhaps consider how it does that..... move in and do that
Write a piece of music...designed to make you listen and feel.... so you turn it on and listen
Make an amazing desirable car that performs beyond all others...... but make it goping and put it in dry storage...that's a fail in my book.
Are you saying the Mclaren is a bit Jackson Pollocks?
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=jackson+pollock&...
PS When Bizet wrote Carmen and it was first shown everybody hated it .... it only became popular after he was brown bread.
Edited by Gandahar on Sunday 10th December 14:20
the reverse, I think.
The painting still got hung on a wall and considered
the music still got played and listened to
This car I suspect like all the other ltd number baubles will not get driven.
It'll be reviewed, tested, stats made bare, a lap time here or there. Then consigned to a garage collection. might as well scrap the internals at that point.
The painting still got hung on a wall and considered
the music still got played and listened to
This car I suspect like all the other ltd number baubles will not get driven.
It'll be reviewed, tested, stats made bare, a lap time here or there. Then consigned to a garage collection. might as well scrap the internals at that point.
AndrewD said:
The design is about as far from greatness as it is possible to be.
Classic design is pure, simple and sensual. When form and function are combined and the result is fresh, instant and timeless. By definition, it doesn't depend on the latest and ephemeral fashion.
This is massively and overly fussy, with the subtlety of a rock in the face. It relies on shock value, and current technology and aero to make its impact. It will date like a 70s wedge or a tower block.
McL have been careful not to use a side shot in their publicity blurb, and to show it front quarter angle with the doors up. Who needs to do that when they have a design that touches greatness?
I would love for McL to be churning out real objects of desire, not clickbait looks for teenagers. Unfortunately their "brand value" seems to be "tech" and right now this means delving into the rather obvious Halfords parts bin of huge diffusers, scoops and wings. If it gets them one step closer to something half way interesting, however, then maybe it is a good thing. I would certainly like to see them kick Ferrari's complacent backside.
Anyway, just my 2p.
It's not classic design because its not intended to be. 'Classic' design is such because of simple production processes, mainly pressing, and - comparatively - little understanding of aero. It's tied to the past. This is a technical car for a technical age, designed for performance. It's not supposed to be elegant.Classic design is pure, simple and sensual. When form and function are combined and the result is fresh, instant and timeless. By definition, it doesn't depend on the latest and ephemeral fashion.
This is massively and overly fussy, with the subtlety of a rock in the face. It relies on shock value, and current technology and aero to make its impact. It will date like a 70s wedge or a tower block.
McL have been careful not to use a side shot in their publicity blurb, and to show it front quarter angle with the doors up. Who needs to do that when they have a design that touches greatness?
I would love for McL to be churning out real objects of desire, not clickbait looks for teenagers. Unfortunately their "brand value" seems to be "tech" and right now this means delving into the rather obvious Halfords parts bin of huge diffusers, scoops and wings. If it gets them one step closer to something half way interesting, however, then maybe it is a good thing. I would certainly like to see them kick Ferrari's complacent backside.
Anyway, just my 2p.
I appreciate the design in context of the machine - it's more if an out and out performance machine rather than traditional road car.
jonby said:
subirg said:
Itsallicanafford said:
Chaps, you have got to think like a billionaire, not a millionaire...you already have all the pretty HyperCars cars, it really doesn't matter what it looks like, this is your track car, for turning up a Spa, with a full support team and racing driver and then being about able to exploit 7/10th of the permanent and wipe the floor with everything else (10/10ths is for the racing driver when you are a passenger)...this is not your only car you trailer to Brans Hatch behind your jeep Cherokee...
Wrong. A billionaire will take a merc project 1 or Aston Valkyrie or Ferrari fxxk EVO etc before being seen dead in this hound of a thing. mwstewart said:
AndrewD said:
The design is about as far from greatness as it is possible to be.
Classic design is pure, simple and sensual. When form and function are combined and the result is fresh, instant and timeless. By definition, it doesn't depend on the latest and ephemeral fashion.
This is massively and overly fussy, with the subtlety of a rock in the face. It relies on shock value, and current technology and aero to make its impact. It will date like a 70s wedge or a tower block.
McL have been careful not to use a side shot in their publicity blurb, and to show it front quarter angle with the doors up. Who needs to do that when they have a design that touches greatness?
I would love for McL to be churning out real objects of desire, not clickbait looks for teenagers. Unfortunately their "brand value" seems to be "tech" and right now this means delving into the rather obvious Halfords parts bin of huge diffusers, scoops and wings. If it gets them one step closer to something half way interesting, however, then maybe it is a good thing. I would certainly like to see them kick Ferrari's complacent backside.
Anyway, just my 2p.
It's not classic design because its not intended to be. 'Classic' design is such because of simple production processes, mainly pressing, and - comparatively - little understanding of aero. It's tied to the past. This is a technical car for a technical age, designed for performance. It's not supposed to be elegant.Classic design is pure, simple and sensual. When form and function are combined and the result is fresh, instant and timeless. By definition, it doesn't depend on the latest and ephemeral fashion.
This is massively and overly fussy, with the subtlety of a rock in the face. It relies on shock value, and current technology and aero to make its impact. It will date like a 70s wedge or a tower block.
McL have been careful not to use a side shot in their publicity blurb, and to show it front quarter angle with the doors up. Who needs to do that when they have a design that touches greatness?
I would love for McL to be churning out real objects of desire, not clickbait looks for teenagers. Unfortunately their "brand value" seems to be "tech" and right now this means delving into the rather obvious Halfords parts bin of huge diffusers, scoops and wings. If it gets them one step closer to something half way interesting, however, then maybe it is a good thing. I would certainly like to see them kick Ferrari's complacent backside.
Anyway, just my 2p.
I appreciate the design in context of the machine - it's more if an out and out performance machine rather than traditional road car.
Quickmoose said:
the reverse, I think.
The painting still got hung on a wall and considered
the music still got played and listened to
This car I suspect like all the other ltd number baubles will not get driven.
It'll be reviewed, tested, stats made bare, a lap time here or there. Then consigned to a garage collection. might as well scrap the internals at that point.
I think manufacturers are pretty good these days at making sure at least some of these cars go to people that will drive them in the manner they were intended to be driven. Certainly on Instagram a couple of the people that have cars like this (andy74b and woppum) do drive them properly and put miles on them.The painting still got hung on a wall and considered
the music still got played and listened to
This car I suspect like all the other ltd number baubles will not get driven.
It'll be reviewed, tested, stats made bare, a lap time here or there. Then consigned to a garage collection. might as well scrap the internals at that point.
Sure, it will probably be no more than a third of the cars will go to owners that drive them, if even a third, but it's better than nothing right?
Gandahar said:
Quickmoose said:
Gandahar said:
See my point on 288GTO, F40, F50 and Enzo.
When the F40 came out you could say, well that ain't a looker compared to the 288, but if you saw one now we all love the simple wedge shape with lack of aero "bits"
Same argument goes for F1 cars through the years of course. Mind you that is extreme, they do vary in lovelyness or pig uglyness, depending. But that is F1, no points for beauty. This is the way the top performing road cars are going.
Slower cars can afford to be more attractive to the eye. Hence why simple aero cars like Singer 911 or modern day E type creations still look fantastic. They are not pushing the envelope.
I know its subjective but ..no.When the F40 came out you could say, well that ain't a looker compared to the 288, but if you saw one now we all love the simple wedge shape with lack of aero "bits"
Same argument goes for F1 cars through the years of course. Mind you that is extreme, they do vary in lovelyness or pig uglyness, depending. But that is F1, no points for beauty. This is the way the top performing road cars are going.
Slower cars can afford to be more attractive to the eye. Hence why simple aero cars like Singer 911 or modern day E type creations still look fantastic. They are not pushing the envelope.
Edited by Gandahar on Sunday 10th December 13:10
Those Ferraris were all poster cars. I very much doubt this will be.
And personally (again subjectively) I didn't fall for the F50 or Enzo when they came out and I haven't changed my mind.
F1 can and does abide by the same rules.
Overall, this "Senna" is getting slated for it's lack of style.
Everyone recognises aesthetic quality within the brief it's trying to fill. road or track, you can have a bit of quircky to buck the trend or change direction, but proportion and detail retain visual rules.
Strangely, from the front, the insectoid front headlights / hole for aero, looks less insectoid than than 720S to me, a bit of 650 melded into it.
Things are very different to what they once were.
I could be wrong, of course, but I sense the change.
leglessAlex said:
Quickmoose said:
the reverse, I think.
The painting still got hung on a wall and considered
the music still got played and listened to
This car I suspect like all the other ltd number baubles will not get driven.
It'll be reviewed, tested, stats made bare, a lap time here or there. Then consigned to a garage collection. might as well scrap the internals at that point.
I think manufacturers are pretty good these days at making sure at least some of these cars go to people that will drive them in the manner they were intended to be driven. Certainly on Instagram a couple of the people that have cars like this (andy74b and woppum) do drive them properly and put miles on them.The painting still got hung on a wall and considered
the music still got played and listened to
This car I suspect like all the other ltd number baubles will not get driven.
It'll be reviewed, tested, stats made bare, a lap time here or there. Then consigned to a garage collection. might as well scrap the internals at that point.
Sure, it will probably be no more than a third of the cars will go to owners that drive them, if even a third, but it's better than nothing right?
To me that makes it a joke.
Imagine two thirds of houses getting built were removed from sale and not to be lived in..
two thirds of paintings painted and not ever seen
two thirds of a musical instrument, produced and then never played.
Probably makes the ones that ARE lived in/played/driven that bit more special.
Still sounds bloody stupid to me.
Fools and their money though eh...
Quickmoose said:
leglessAlex said:
Quickmoose said:
the reverse, I think.
The painting still got hung on a wall and considered
the music still got played and listened to
This car I suspect like all the other ltd number baubles will not get driven.
It'll be reviewed, tested, stats made bare, a lap time here or there. Then consigned to a garage collection. might as well scrap the internals at that point.
I think manufacturers are pretty good these days at making sure at least some of these cars go to people that will drive them in the manner they were intended to be driven. Certainly on Instagram a couple of the people that have cars like this (andy74b and woppum) do drive them properly and put miles on them.The painting still got hung on a wall and considered
the music still got played and listened to
This car I suspect like all the other ltd number baubles will not get driven.
It'll be reviewed, tested, stats made bare, a lap time here or there. Then consigned to a garage collection. might as well scrap the internals at that point.
Sure, it will probably be no more than a third of the cars will go to owners that drive them, if even a third, but it's better than nothing right?
To me that makes it a joke.
Imagine two thirds of houses getting built were removed from sale and not to be lived in..
two thirds of paintings painted and not ever seen
two thirds of a musical instrument, produced and then never played.
Probably makes the ones that ARE lived in/played/driven that bit more special.
Still sounds bloody stupid to me.
Fools and their money though eh...
Something else that makes me feel better about it is that for me at least, I would have no real interest in driving a car like this on the road anyway. The 911 R, Cayman GT4 or Elise GT430 being special editions get on my tits a lot more, those are cars that would make brilliant road cars for anyone.
Quickmoose said:
And then the F1, 918, Chiron, Valkyrie and Merc Project thing prove why 'classic' design is absolutely still fundamentally as true today as it ever was.
The Chiron is more of a GT, so classic is more relevant. I like it.The rear of the 918 is great but the rest looks dated - exactly because it is styled in a very classic way. Due to this it looks better in black.
The Valkyrie is hideous - a failed mix of different eras, though in isolation some aspects are ok.
I find the F1 an ungainly looking thing. Rather dumpy unless in race clothes.
Horses for courses, eh?
mwstewart said:
Quickmoose said:
And then the F1, 918, Chiron, Valkyrie and Merc Project thing prove why 'classic' design is absolutely still fundamentally as true today as it ever was.
The Chiron is more of a GT, so classic is more relevant. I like it.The rear of the 918 is great but the rest looks dated - exactly because it is styled in a very classic way. Due to this it looks better in black.
The Valkyrie is hideous - a failed mix of different eras, though in isolation some aspects are ok.
I find the F1 an ungainly looking thing. Rather dumpy unless in race clothes.
Horses for courses, eh?
And in the case of the Valkeryie and Project, they are 'right now'....not GT, not dated... current. and devoid of any kind of style that brings about the level of derision this car has gotten so far...
oh and 918 'dated'....
Jam12321 said:
Personally thought the 918 looked dated upon release. Each to their own...
I was going on the basis of a smooth, classically beautiful car that paid homage to it's history...and by tying it into what has gone before you're using cues form another age....'dating' it?...maybe...But we can agree the 918 looks somewhat different to a 1960's 'classic' car right?
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