Used cars not selling?
Discussion
Deep Thought said:
Human beings consume. Thats what we do. Its not a big surprise that we want to consume new cars at an ever greater rate.
I think a lot of things these days are disposable - to the extent that if you chose to replace it you can. Mobile phones are a prime example.
Disgusting, wanton waste. As a species, we really do fI think a lot of things these days are disposable - to the extent that if you chose to replace it you can. Mobile phones are a prime example.
k this world over. Drive Blind said:
from what I see nobody wants a 12 year old car.
Nobody in my street has a 12 year old car and I think I'd struggle to find a vehicle of that age in the works car park.
I wonder if you live in a "PCP and Debt to your eyeballs" estate? Nobody in my street has a 12 year old car and I think I'd struggle to find a vehicle of that age in the works car park.
Where I live, most of the cars down my street are 10 years plus, but it is mainly the older person living here not people looking to "impress" the neighbour with their latest Audi A3.
Deep Thought said:
Scootersp said:
It's an interesting contradiction, where you have cars being produced on grounds of emissions and improved efficiencies, but where seemingly the end users wishes (and obviously the manufacturers want) to upgrade sooner and sooner? It's the clash of economics/capitalism with the green/save the planet ethos which, whilst they aren't exactly mutually exclusive, they definitely don't make perfect bedfellows!
Is there a stat for the average age of cars on the road over the years, has this been increasing for sure year on year as the lease/pcp talk would seem to suggest?
Human beings consume. Thats what we do. Its not a big surprise that we want to consume new cars at an ever greater rate.Is there a stat for the average age of cars on the road over the years, has this been increasing for sure year on year as the lease/pcp talk would seem to suggest?
I think a lot of things these days are disposable - to the extent that if you chose to replace it you can. Mobile phones are a prime example.
I think the Snowflake Generation are used to getting what they want when they want it and therefore they'll happily sign up for a new car over 3 years but demand to be able to change it after a year and then are shocked when there are consequences.
If you treat PCP deals as they were designed - a commitment over an agreed term, then not one just will you give about the fact you may for a big part of it owe more than its worth, yet some people seem to get really up in arms about it.
tannhauser said:
Deep Thought said:
Human beings consume. Thats what we do. Its not a big surprise that we want to consume new cars at an ever greater rate.
I think a lot of things these days are disposable - to the extent that if you chose to replace it you can. Mobile phones are a prime example.
Disgusting, wanton waste. As a species, we really do fI think a lot of things these days are disposable - to the extent that if you chose to replace it you can. Mobile phones are a prime example.
k this world over. ToothbrushMan said:
phone sales are dwindling and have been for years as people hold onto their existing handset for longer as it does what they want so when the contract is up they are free of the monthly payments. maybe this will occur with cars?
I think phone sales are plateauing as there isnt enough diffentiation between new phone iterations to warrant the change. For example the changes between an Samsung S8 and an S9 arent worth an upgrade.TV sales are also levelling off for similar reasons.
But cars are still evolving so theres still always reasons to change.
Deep Thought said:
I suspect its why used car PCP deals are at such a high interest rate. I think the big manufacturer finance houses are building a war chest for the coming storm....
Less than 6% apr is easily achievable on a used car PCP.People just go to the wrong places for finance...
I picked up a lovely cheap S2000 earlier in the year and have been trying to sell it for the majority of the summer.
Not had one serious bite and I am soon at the point of just trying to break even on it.
Had a similar discussion to this at work today with a fellow petrolhead and we both pointed out the same...in a car park of around 1000 cars, its either bangers/people who dont care for cars, or less than 5 years old PCP or mostly only two years old max. Some swap every 9 months.
Not had one serious bite and I am soon at the point of just trying to break even on it.
Had a similar discussion to this at work today with a fellow petrolhead and we both pointed out the same...in a car park of around 1000 cars, its either bangers/people who dont care for cars, or less than 5 years old PCP or mostly only two years old max. Some swap every 9 months.
Think I kinda agree with this....Earlier this year I tried to sell a DC5 Type r it was pretty mint decent mileage you could tell i loved it. However I didn’t get s single call not one, had to sell it to a trader. I’ve sold over 25 car private before and never had a problem.
I think a lot of middle earners say 20-35k take lease or PCP. People with financial knowledge will know ultimately it will cost you more in the long term as you have no asset to sell or you’ll have paid more for the car than if you bought a nearly new one for cash. I think most people who buy cars now are the kind who have the cash to buy outright, as if you need finance if you go for the lease or pcp you’ll be able to afford a newer. you’ll pay a lot more in the long run but most people don’t care sadly.
I think a lot of middle earners say 20-35k take lease or PCP. People with financial knowledge will know ultimately it will cost you more in the long term as you have no asset to sell or you’ll have paid more for the car than if you bought a nearly new one for cash. I think most people who buy cars now are the kind who have the cash to buy outright, as if you need finance if you go for the lease or pcp you’ll be able to afford a newer. you’ll pay a lot more in the long run but most people don’t care sadly.
indapendentlee said:
swisstoni said:
This ‘where do all the old lease cars go and why aren’t the s/h prices at rock bottom’ question has come up a few times over the years.
If cars can’t be re-leased or sold for a good price I would not be surprised if they weren’t being disappeared by those with a vested interest in there not being a good supply of cheap 3 year old cars about.
Just an idea - I’ve got no proof whatsoever.
They sit at airfields until the market requires them - unsustainable.If cars can’t be re-leased or sold for a good price I would not be surprised if they weren’t being disappeared by those with a vested interest in there not being a good supply of cheap 3 year old cars about.
Just an idea - I’ve got no proof whatsoever.
t again, do you really think that a manufacturer or a lease company will have fields of 2-4 year old cars worth many millions just sitting there depreciating whilst waiting for the right time to release them or to make sure more new cars are sold?! I understand why people PCP - if they can afford it.
For those with, say, only c500 quid per month left over after mortgage/rent & bills, it's not a good idea (20k-30k per year bracket)
But for those with over 1k net per month left over after mortgage/rent/bills, then a 350 quid pm PCP isn't going to hurt them
For those with, say, only c500 quid per month left over after mortgage/rent & bills, it's not a good idea (20k-30k per year bracket)
But for those with over 1k net per month left over after mortgage/rent/bills, then a 350 quid pm PCP isn't going to hurt them
j1mmy said:
People with financial knowledge will know ultimately it will cost you more in the long term as you have no asset to sell or you’ll have paid more for the car than if you bought a nearly new one for cash.
I don’t think you need ‘financial knowledge’ to know that continuously leasing cars over several years will cost more money than buying one car outright. That’s stating the obvious.However, a decent lease deal (yes there are poor ones) will usually cost you less if you intentionally plan to give the car back after the first 2/3 years. Obviously, if you don’t plan to give the car back for 5+ years... then buying usually ends up the most sensible option.
I’ve had my lease car(s) go back, and then found it on Autotrader going for more than what I paid for it!
Please find my post in a recent German cars thread where I owned Schmed with a better deal than his PCP that he was adamant couldn’t be beaten... he’s ignored me ever since.
People lease cars because they want that fixed cost every month, hand the car back, then get another one. They do it to always drive a new car they don’t need to worry about. They do it so they don’t have to worry about taxing and MOT’ing (first 3 years). They do it because they like the idea of a new car.
They don’t necessarily lease to save money long term. Biggest misconception I hear from the anti-leasers.
Sorry to pick on you.
If you have time, it is worth reading some of Tom Winnifirths posts on BCA.
Winnifirths is a bit of a headcase at times but I will give him his dues that he has picked out several companies I have looked at as about to fail and been correct.
All the speculation on the car credit bubble discussed here could very well happen.
Right now after lurking for the past 5 years I'm off to post about cars.
Main BCA article below but several newer ones there as well
https://www.shareprophets.com/views/32091/the-175-...
Winnifirths is a bit of a headcase at times but I will give him his dues that he has picked out several companies I have looked at as about to fail and been correct.
All the speculation on the car credit bubble discussed here could very well happen.
Right now after lurking for the past 5 years I'm off to post about cars.
Main BCA article below but several newer ones there as well
https://www.shareprophets.com/views/32091/the-175-...
roadsmash said:
I don’t think you need ‘financial knowledge’ to know that continuously leasing cars over several years will cost more money than buying one car outright. That’s stating the obvious.
However, a decent lease deal (yes there are poor ones) will usually cost you less if you intentionally plan to give the car back after the first 2/3 years. Obviously, if you don’t plan to give the car back for 5+ years... then buying usually ends up the most sensible option.
I’ve had my lease car(s) go back, and then found it on Autotrader going for more than what I paid for it!
Please find my post in a recent German cars thread where I owned Schmed with a better deal than his PCP that he was adamant couldn’t be beaten... he’s ignored me ever since.
People lease cars because they want that fixed cost every month, hand the car back, then get another one. They do it to always drive a new car they don’t need to worry about. They do it so they don’t have to worry about taxing and MOT’ing (first 3 years). They do it because they like the idea of a new car.
They don’t necessarily lease to save money long term. Biggest misconception I hear from the anti-leasers.
.
That's exactly my position. I really don't want to run a family car out of manufacturer's warranty. It doesn't mean it will spontaneously combust but I prefer new, although it's not new for very long. As soon as I can't find a lease rate that I think will beat depreciation however I will probably buy rather than rent. However, a decent lease deal (yes there are poor ones) will usually cost you less if you intentionally plan to give the car back after the first 2/3 years. Obviously, if you don’t plan to give the car back for 5+ years... then buying usually ends up the most sensible option.
I’ve had my lease car(s) go back, and then found it on Autotrader going for more than what I paid for it!
Please find my post in a recent German cars thread where I owned Schmed with a better deal than his PCP that he was adamant couldn’t be beaten... he’s ignored me ever since.
People lease cars because they want that fixed cost every month, hand the car back, then get another one. They do it to always drive a new car they don’t need to worry about. They do it so they don’t have to worry about taxing and MOT’ing (first 3 years). They do it because they like the idea of a new car.
They don’t necessarily lease to save money long term. Biggest misconception I hear from the anti-leasers.
.
I spend £490/month amortised/taxed on 2 leased cars worth about £45k in total after max discount. For me that's excellent value but I have no issues with anyone preferring to run older cars. They are probably laughing all the way to the bank at the expense of the poor mug who has ran the car from new (joke).
nickfrog said:
That's exactly my position. I really don't want to run a family car out of manufacturer's warranty. It doesn't mean it will spontaneously combust but I prefer new...
I know we are all different, but I don't understand this position. The risk is minimal for most people/situations.
A car will typically run for over 100K miles with normal servicing, without the sort of problems that a warranty will cover. Defects will often show up in the warranty period, very few in the middle and then faults develop towards the end of its life -"The bath tub model".
If you have 2 or more cars in the household, then the impact of having one of them off the road for a short period is reduced anyway.
indapendentlee said:
swisstoni said:
This ‘where do all the old lease cars go and why aren’t the s/h prices at rock bottom’ question has come up a few times over the years.
If cars can’t be re-leased or sold for a good price I would not be surprised if they weren’t being disappeared by those with a vested interest in there not being a good supply of cheap 3 year old cars about.
Just an idea - I’ve got no proof whatsoever.
They sit at airfields until the market requires them - unsustainable.If cars can’t be re-leased or sold for a good price I would not be surprised if they weren’t being disappeared by those with a vested interest in there not being a good supply of cheap 3 year old cars about.
Just an idea - I’ve got no proof whatsoever.
I can tell you that in 2014 about 50,000 cars came to Ireland from the UK and with the pound dropping in value this has increased over the last few years as well.
(Figures for 2014 can be found here : https://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublicat... )
I will see if I can get any newer figures as well.
Found some later figures...
Looks like around 97,000 in 2017
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-ser...
Edited by Olivergt on Tuesday 14th August 10:56
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