End of petrol and hybrid
Discussion
Wacky Racer said:
I have a copy of "The AA Book of the car" from around 1968.
It says the "economical" life of an average new car is eight years.
When they were made of old baked bean tin/steel and they did not underseal protect the metal they were made from.It says the "economical" life of an average new car is eight years.
Body work on cars made from the mid 90's on can be in superb condition.
There is no real reason (with care) that any car can last 20-50 years if it is designed to do so.
Edited by Dont like rolls on Tuesday 4th February 10:34
otolith said:
The denial is breath taking.
This is where we are going.
It has been utterly obvious that this is where we are going for ages now.
But but but but power stations lithium mines cobalt hydrogen terraced houses cables over pavements 500 miles a day batteries dead in 8 years wah wah wah - just shut the f
k up.
You don't have to like it, I certainly don't, but in the medium to long term we are not going to be allowed to drive ICE cars. The writing is on the wall. We are either going to make electric cars work for our circumstances, or we are going to change our circumstances, or we are going to get the bus.
We will always be 'allowed' to drive ICE cars - they just might become a bit more expensive to use or restricted where/when they can be used, & likely viewed as more of an in inconvenience compared to EV for the majority of journeys This is where we are going.
It has been utterly obvious that this is where we are going for ages now.
But but but but power stations lithium mines cobalt hydrogen terraced houses cables over pavements 500 miles a day batteries dead in 8 years wah wah wah - just shut the f
k up. You don't have to like it, I certainly don't, but in the medium to long term we are not going to be allowed to drive ICE cars. The writing is on the wall. We are either going to make electric cars work for our circumstances, or we are going to change our circumstances, or we are going to get the bus.
Much like horses. Last time I checked there are still a million+ of those being regularly driven in the UK?
rjg48 said:
Not fear of change.
Charging a car at home is not possible for millions of Londoners, for one.
All those short urban journeys in the bit of the country with poor air quality and by far the best public transport. How will they cope with using a public charger once a week or using the excellent public transport?Charging a car at home is not possible for millions of Londoners, for one.
A Winner Is You said:
We're alrwdy starting to see reports on the dangers of brake dust and tyre debris, so what's the betting this will be the discovery that shows EVs aren't as good for the environment as originally thought?
No that’s just a statement to ready you for the tyre and brake tax that will replace the huge loss of tax from ice fuels I don't get the arguments against... sure right now people can't charge if they don't have a drive, range isn't great on all models, models are pricey and few and far between etc. etc.
No, we couldn't cope if everyone changed to an EV right now. That's irrelevant. This is about 15 years from now. As someone has pointed out we've made a lot of progress in the past 10 years, I suspect we'll make a lot more in the next 15. And it's likely any problems you have (range, cost or charging) are the things that are solved in that time, because what puts people off doesn't sell cars.
Can we build a new nuclear power station in 15 years. No. But we can build wind and solar pretty well, 31% of our power generation right now is wind power. Again, over 15 years that can change (yes, I know we'll need Nuclear for base generation, when it's night and the wind is still).
What I would be doing if I were you is thinking about the knock on effects. As people have said, PCP may become much more expensive as residuals drop, petrol stations may become much rarer as they can't enough petrol, non-dealer garages closing as not enough trade, tax may change too. The sensible thing to do would be to start seeing how you can move to an EV rather than stick with something that is much harder and costly to run. Not now, perhaps not even your next car... but certainly 10 or so years from now.
It's not about short term thinking, it's long term thinking. Things will be different.
No, we couldn't cope if everyone changed to an EV right now. That's irrelevant. This is about 15 years from now. As someone has pointed out we've made a lot of progress in the past 10 years, I suspect we'll make a lot more in the next 15. And it's likely any problems you have (range, cost or charging) are the things that are solved in that time, because what puts people off doesn't sell cars.
Can we build a new nuclear power station in 15 years. No. But we can build wind and solar pretty well, 31% of our power generation right now is wind power. Again, over 15 years that can change (yes, I know we'll need Nuclear for base generation, when it's night and the wind is still).
What I would be doing if I were you is thinking about the knock on effects. As people have said, PCP may become much more expensive as residuals drop, petrol stations may become much rarer as they can't enough petrol, non-dealer garages closing as not enough trade, tax may change too. The sensible thing to do would be to start seeing how you can move to an EV rather than stick with something that is much harder and costly to run. Not now, perhaps not even your next car... but certainly 10 or so years from now.
It's not about short term thinking, it's long term thinking. Things will be different.
DaveCWK said:
We will always be 'allowed' to drive ICE cars - they just might become a bit more expensive to use or restricted where/when they can be used, & likely viewed as more of an in inconvenience compared to EV for the majority of journeys
Much like horses. Last time I checked there are still a million+ of those being regularly driven in the UK?
Once you can't buy them new, the used market has dried up, you can't drive them into conurbations, you get taxed up the arse to drive them - to all intents and purposes they will be about as realistic a form of transport as the horse is. You might be allowed to play with them.Much like horses. Last time I checked there are still a million+ of those being regularly driven in the UK?
Fittster said:
rjg48 said:
MC Bodge said:
I detect fear of change.
Not fear of change.Charging a car at home is not possible for millions of Londoners, for one.
London has very different transport needs to the rest of the country.
If you knew London you'd know how hard it can be to park anywhere near your house at times.
A Winner Is You said:
We're alrwdy starting to see reports on the dangers of brake dust and tyre debris, so what's the betting this will be the discovery that shows EVs aren't as good for the environment as originally thought?
Yeah, all these EV's with tyres and brakes, shouldnt be allowed ! I think what we need is good old fashioned ICE vehicles that use tyres, brakes and pump out hydrocarbons and god knows what as well.
EV's generally dont use the wheel brakes, the energy is harvested by the motor back into the battery, so unless its hard braking they dont get used, so less brake dust.
Tyres, well, cant avoid that at the moment if we insist on having motorized transport, all we can do is drive sensibly and make the tyres last, hopefully the scientists may develop something that doesnt emit so many particles.
The brief period, ~60 years in the UK, of mass individual car ownership is passing. Internal combustion piston engines are now ancient tech.
Unless you live in the wilds or get out there often, UK driving is mostly A to B, in traffic, with lots of start/stop.
The future will be increasingly autonomous vehicles, hired on demand and arriving at your door. Like Blade Runner taxis, of different sizes and utility.
The image conscious will be able to rent big, flashy looking, impractical vehicles if they so wish.
The stone age passed, the bronze age passed, the iron age passed, the canal age passed, the horse age passed, the steam age passed.
I have some great memories of driving cars.
Unless you live in the wilds or get out there often, UK driving is mostly A to B, in traffic, with lots of start/stop.
The future will be increasingly autonomous vehicles, hired on demand and arriving at your door. Like Blade Runner taxis, of different sizes and utility.
The image conscious will be able to rent big, flashy looking, impractical vehicles if they so wish.
The stone age passed, the bronze age passed, the iron age passed, the canal age passed, the horse age passed, the steam age passed.
I have some great memories of driving cars.
Dont like rolls said:
Wacky Racer said:
I have a copy of "The AA Book of the car" from around 1968.
It says the "economical" life of an average new car is eight years.
When they were made of old baked bean tin/steel and they did not underseal protect the metal they were made from.It says the "economical" life of an average new car is eight years.
Body work on cars made from the mid 90's on can be in superb condition.
There is no real reason (with care) that any car can last 20-50 years if it is designed to do so.
For example if it needed a new engine and the car was only worth a few hundred pounds.
But yes, I agree with you about better build quality.
HealeyV8 said:
It's just a shame everyone has settled for electric instead of petrol / deisel. It's still not really a green energy source or that pratical.
It means research into some other power source that might be better has all but stopped.
Like ?It means research into some other power source that might be better has all but stopped.
Electricity and a motor is the best we have, if there was something better Porsche wouldn't have spent millions developing the Taycan, manufacturers wouldn't be clamouring to get EV's to market.
ICE has had 100 years of development or more, some of the first cars were electric but they couldn't store enough in the batteries so it got dropped until what, about 12 years ago, aside from the odd bloke in sheds creation
The painful truth is one person hurtling round in tin boxes at speed isn't very environmentally friendly, especially when its burning fossil fuels, and to go forward we have to go back a couple of steps in terms of range, charging and stuff, wont be long before EV's batter ICE in every measure and bottom feeders like me have a field day picking through the left overs
otolith said:
rjg48 said:
Not fear of change.
Charging a car at home is not possible for millions of Londoners, for one.
All those short urban journeys in the bit of the country with poor air quality and by far the best public transport. How will they cope with using a public charger once a week or using the excellent public transport?Charging a car at home is not possible for millions of Londoners, for one.
rjg48 said:
Fittster said:
rjg48 said:
MC Bodge said:
I detect fear of change.
Not fear of change.Charging a car at home is not possible for millions of Londoners, for one.
London has very different transport needs to the rest of the country.
If you knew London you'd know how hard it can be to park anywhere near your house at times.
ITT
1. Lithium batteries are recyclable
2. It’s a ban on the sale of new combustion engined cars, no-one is taking away your old car or stopping you working on them.
3. This type of legislation is necessary to push manufacturers towards EV
4. This is great for Tesla shareholders
5. This isn’t nearly enough. We need to tackle emissions from shipping which are massive compared to consumer car emissions
6. Local authorities should get money from Central govt to improve infrastructure
7. Businesses should be incentivised to provide charging spots
1. Lithium batteries are recyclable
2. It’s a ban on the sale of new combustion engined cars, no-one is taking away your old car or stopping you working on them.
3. This type of legislation is necessary to push manufacturers towards EV
4. This is great for Tesla shareholders
5. This isn’t nearly enough. We need to tackle emissions from shipping which are massive compared to consumer car emissions
6. Local authorities should get money from Central govt to improve infrastructure
7. Businesses should be incentivised to provide charging spots
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 4th February 11:17
Fittster said:
rjg48 said:
MC Bodge said:
I detect fear of change.
Not fear of change.Charging a car at home is not possible for millions of Londoners, for one.
No chance of home charging, and every one of the 36 homes had a vehicle, many of them had 2 or 3, as most were now rental properties, and many had 3 or 4 people living in them, all with a vehicle.
greenarrow said:
I really don't know why so ,many people are so angsty about something that is 15 years away.
Just get on with enjoying your life (and car). Its not like petrols and diesels are being banned from next year.
All car makers will be ahead of that date by some margin I’d wager. Those who don’t will suffer. Just get on with enjoying your life (and car). Its not like petrols and diesels are being banned from next year.
ULEZ in Oxford this year ditto London that will keep rolling out. Unless you have a Hybrid that can run EV mode in those zones or an EV it’s going to get mighty pricy if you need an ICE to get into those areas.
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