RE: All-electric Caterham Seven promised
Discussion
I'm excited to hear the news. As a whole, the car industry hasn't worked out how to make electric sports cars yet. Lotus has dropped the no frills approach and described what the lotus values of the future are going to be.
I don't agree with the view that a new electric caterham is doomed from the off. I bet it's possible to build an electric car that embodies the driving essence of a caterham. Can they do it? I must say my expectations are low. With a quote from the MD that says I've got an idea and a couple of the chaps do too, it's not really convincing. Not exactly strategic or inspiriting.
I do wish them well and I'd have an electric caterham if it's any good.
But as Equus says it's all the fault of the customers! Really,????
Bert
I don't agree with the view that a new electric caterham is doomed from the off. I bet it's possible to build an electric car that embodies the driving essence of a caterham. Can they do it? I must say my expectations are low. With a quote from the MD that says I've got an idea and a couple of the chaps do too, it's not really convincing. Not exactly strategic or inspiriting.
I do wish them well and I'd have an electric caterham if it's any good.
But as Equus says it's all the fault of the customers! Really,????
Bert
Chris Harris captures the essence of why a car enthusiast would want a Caterham 7 in THIS YOUTUBE VIDEO something a Porsche or Ferrari can't offer.
If you've owned a Caterham you'll understand, but it still doesn't convey the sensory overload of actually driving one.
If you've owned a Caterham you'll understand, but it still doesn't convey the sensory overload of actually driving one.
rockin said:
None of those calling for one of these cars had yet explained,
I would imagine the battery would be installed somewhere in the body of the car, like most other cars do. - Where the battery will be installed, or
- How that battery is going to be miraculously light.
The battery isn't going to be miraculously light.
That isn't my idea of any sort of sports car, but we haven't much choice.
PH User said:
That isn't my idea of any sort of sports car, but we haven't much choice.
But isn't that an exciting prospect? A bunch of clever people trying to figure out how to make an electric sports car that's fun.I also think the weight thing is way over stated. I've just bought an electric bike. The epitome of heavy compared with my old yeti. But when I ride it, it's really good, very agile, I never think of the weight. It's fabulous.
Bert
NerveAgent said:
Murph7355 said:
They either do something like this or the company dies/becomes a spares provider/restorer.
They need to be innovative with it IMO. Motors and batteries instead of engines, gearboxes and diffs gives a lot of scope. Are EVs allowed to use regen braking only? Do away with old school brakes...perhaps go single pedal?
Batteries have plenty of scope for siting. I wonder if something could be done to allow battery packs to be dropped out really easily, say at a track. Range for road use isn't really a big deal. Long stints in 7s aren't what they're about. But track use will chew the battery quickly. If you could trailer a couple of spares with the car for a quick 10min swap....recharging whilst out on track.
Part of me thinks, like snotrag, that if they're going down this route, it may be an opportunity missed not to move away from the shape/dimensions and really leverage the flexibility an EV drivetrain could present - still tiny and as low weight as possible, but a different shape.
Will be interesting to see what they make of it. I wonder if they're working with Sheffield Uni on theirs?
Yep, that’s how I see it, it’s do or die.They need to be innovative with it IMO. Motors and batteries instead of engines, gearboxes and diffs gives a lot of scope. Are EVs allowed to use regen braking only? Do away with old school brakes...perhaps go single pedal?
Batteries have plenty of scope for siting. I wonder if something could be done to allow battery packs to be dropped out really easily, say at a track. Range for road use isn't really a big deal. Long stints in 7s aren't what they're about. But track use will chew the battery quickly. If you could trailer a couple of spares with the car for a quick 10min swap....recharging whilst out on track.
Part of me thinks, like snotrag, that if they're going down this route, it may be an opportunity missed not to move away from the shape/dimensions and really leverage the flexibility an EV drivetrain could present - still tiny and as low weight as possible, but a different shape.
Will be interesting to see what they make of it. I wonder if they're working with Sheffield Uni on theirs?
Their traditional potential pool of customers must be rapidly shrinking. They have to try something. I’m not sure it will work though.
Change the shape, and many wont want a Seven any more, no matter how modern, or how well it performs.,
So if they do introduce an electric 7 it must be within the confines of the existing
Seven shape . If it is not, it will no longer be a Seven, just another new type of electric car, and there are likely to be many more types of those to choose from, so why bother buying one from Caterham?
Whatever they do, they have to shoehorn the new electric technology into the existing Seven shape, or it wont even be worth doing.
Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Saturday 15th May 10:59
Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Saturday 15th May 11:00
I totally understand the resistance to this, and I’m not sure it’s a car that will appeal to me. But then again, my Caterham has twin 40s and I think a move to fuel injection takes away some of the purity - therefore, I’d consider myself one of the aforementioned Luddites.
However, I am glad that the company is exploring this route. Things move on and people, generally, embrace this change. It would be great if the petrol versions can somehow get a stay of execution beyond 2030, but it will also be great if a new generation of enthusiasts pick up the electric baton and maintain a love of cars such as the 7.
However, I am glad that the company is exploring this route. Things move on and people, generally, embrace this change. It would be great if the petrol versions can somehow get a stay of execution beyond 2030, but it will also be great if a new generation of enthusiasts pick up the electric baton and maintain a love of cars such as the 7.
With regard to the shape of the Seven, one would have to ask why many other small volume manufacturers, who could have produced a car of `any' shape, nevertheless chose to copy the Lotus 7 for all their offerings? Given the number of lookalikes, It seems that the seven shape was the thing that a lot of buyers out there were actually looking for.,
apexeater said:
With today’s battery tech and HV charging and management electronics it will be significantly heavier than today’s ICE variant and, due to the nature of the beast, will have a limited range unless you are cruising around.
So to start with it will be compromised, but like it has been said in the thread, you need to start somewhere, and the future is EV if you like it or not, so go for it Caterham and hang on until we have lighter more energy dense batteries that have high speed charging so you can top-up in-between your track sessions
It'll add maybe 80kg to the weight, so about the same as the average passenger. So to start with it will be compromised, but like it has been said in the thread, you need to start somewhere, and the future is EV if you like it or not, so go for it Caterham and hang on until we have lighter more energy dense batteries that have high speed charging so you can top-up in-between your track sessions
Edited by apexeater on Saturday 15th May 08:47
apexeater said:
rscott said:
It'll add maybe 80kg to the weight, so about the same as the average passenger.
Unfortunately it will add a lot more than 80kg, believe me.Max_Torque said:
Given that driving a Caterham for say 80miles is pretty hardcore, and that requires about 20kWH of batteries, i see no reason this EV Caterham can't be reasonably lightweight. No, not Caterham Hayabusa light, but not exactly a heavy weight.
A 250 bhp motor, which will have massive torque compared to the normal sorts of engines in these cars is about 20 kg these days, call it 40 with inverter and wirin, so you might just get the powertrain in at around 300kg, which is about say 80 kg, or 1 passenger, away from an ICE caterham.
A 250 bhp motor, which will have massive torque compared to the normal sorts of engines in these cars is about 20 kg these days, call it 40 with inverter and wirin, so you might just get the powertrain in at around 300kg, which is about say 80 kg, or 1 passenger, away from an ICE caterham.
rscott said:
apexeater said:
rscott said:
It'll add maybe 80kg to the weight, so about the same as the average passenger.
Unfortunately it will add a lot more than 80kg, believe me.Max_Torque said:
Given that driving a Caterham for say 80miles is pretty hardcore, and that requires about 20kWH of batteries, i see no reason this EV Caterham can't be reasonably lightweight. No, not Caterham Hayabusa light, but not exactly a heavy weight.
A 250 bhp motor, which will have massive torque compared to the normal sorts of engines in these cars is about 20 kg these days, call it 40 with inverter and wirin, so you might just get the powertrain in at around 300kg, which is about say 80 kg, or 1 passenger, away from an ICE caterham.
[/quoting
Like I said, I think the summary is extremely optimistic, but we are all allowed our own opinions.
My experience comes from a few decades of complete vehicle concept and geometry integration, currently working for an EV company,
A good example maybe:
Tesla Elise 1305kg
lotus Elise series 2 heaviest variant 910kg
Approx 400kg to electrify the Elise, even allowing for efficiencies and a 20kw/h batt vs the 54kw/h in the Tesla (approx 200kg) you are going to add closer to 200kg
I wouldn’t contemplate a 7 with max 20kw/h as you waont have access to that amount, again my opinion but for a frustration free product you would need to be looking closer to 40kw/h
A 250 bhp motor, which will have massive torque compared to the normal sorts of engines in these cars is about 20 kg these days, call it 40 with inverter and wirin, so you might just get the powertrain in at around 300kg, which is about say 80 kg, or 1 passenger, away from an ICE caterham.
[/quoting
Like I said, I think the summary is extremely optimistic, but we are all allowed our own opinions.
My experience comes from a few decades of complete vehicle concept and geometry integration, currently working for an EV company,
A good example maybe:
Tesla Elise 1305kg
lotus Elise series 2 heaviest variant 910kg
Approx 400kg to electrify the Elise, even allowing for efficiencies and a 20kw/h batt vs the 54kw/h in the Tesla (approx 200kg) you are going to add closer to 200kg
I wouldn’t contemplate a 7 with max 20kw/h as you waont have access to that amount, again my opinion but for a frustration free product you would need to be looking closer to 40kw/h
Edited by apexeater on Saturday 15th May 17:17
Max_Torque said:
Given that driving a Caterham for say 80miles is pretty hardcore, and that requires about 20kWH of batteries, i see no reason this EV Caterham can't be reasonably lightweight. No, not Caterham Hayabusa light, but not exactly a heavy weight.
You don't half talk a lot of crap! 80 miles, FFS, we used to go out for 150 miles on a Sunday morning for breakfast. most, if not all with aeroscreens. This thread is filled with the sort of wimpy lily-livered tin top drivers who s
t themselves at the sight of anything more intimidating than a warm, dry golf course 
And no. The point of the 7 is not huge torque, it's how playful it is. it'll add at least 100-150kg as the chassis will have to be braced all over the place, in fact it might even completely change the kerb weight.
It'll also be devoid of the personality of a 7. But nobody on PH seems to really be bothered about this basic fact. 80 miles
I once very happily did a 525 mile blat in my R400, only stopping for fuel, mainly on A roads . It was joyous - and unforgettable . But range anxiety is already a familiar source of angst for non SV Sevens . With its very small tank , it was the equivalent of driving my daily car with a quarter tank's worth .
A car like this is very much needed in the EV sector. Exciting to drive, light and perhaps a new race series on the way for it.
I'm a petrol head i have a TVR Griffith amd i am also doing a TVR Wedge EV build.
Electric cars are here and its thr future of propolsion in 20 plus years time most people will see petrol cars like we see steam engines.
I'm a petrol head i have a TVR Griffith amd i am also doing a TVR Wedge EV build.
Electric cars are here and its thr future of propolsion in 20 plus years time most people will see petrol cars like we see steam engines.
- ChargeheadsUK
- TVRWedgee
apexeater said:
A good example maybe:
Tesla Elise 1305kg
lotus Elise series 2 heaviest variant 910kg
Approx 400kg to electrify the Elise, even allowing for efficiencies and a 20kw/h batt vs the 54kw/h in the Tesla (approx 200kg) you are going to add closer to 200kg
I wouldn’t contemplate a 7 with max 20kw/h as you waont have access to that amount, again my opinion but for a frustration free product you would need to be looking closer to 40kw/h
Tbf, calling the Tesla Roadster an "electrified Elise" is a bit unfair the two cars share a different ethos and the Roadster was the longest range ev at the time, and quite a bit more powerful than the Elise. It wasn't designed to be a lightweight sportscar.Tesla Elise 1305kg
lotus Elise series 2 heaviest variant 910kg
Approx 400kg to electrify the Elise, even allowing for efficiencies and a 20kw/h batt vs the 54kw/h in the Tesla (approx 200kg) you are going to add closer to 200kg
I wouldn’t contemplate a 7 with max 20kw/h as you waont have access to that amount, again my opinion but for a frustration free product you would need to be looking closer to 40kw/h
As many have seen, the extra oomph and freedom with weight distribution can possibly make up for another 100kg at the kerb.
I rather hope that they can come up with an wonderful handling, efficient, lightweight, reasonably cheap open car with satisfying punch but not mental performance.
Rather contentiously I wonder if the best layout might have a very concentrated drivetrain/battery mass and electric motors driving each front wheel. FWD would provide the best regen and torque vectoring could be used to provide exceptional turn in and pointiness.
Rather contentiously I wonder if the best layout might have a very concentrated drivetrain/battery mass and electric motors driving each front wheel. FWD would provide the best regen and torque vectoring could be used to provide exceptional turn in and pointiness.
AnotherClarkey said:
I rather hope that they can come up with an wonderful handling, efficient, lightweight, reasonably cheap open car with satisfying punch but not mental performance.
Rather contentiously I wonder if the best layout might have a very concentrated drivetrain/battery mass and electric motors driving each front wheel. FWD would provide the best regen and torque vectoring could be used to provide exceptional turn in and pointiness.
Whilst people are struggling to contemplate electric instead of petrol in a caterham and I'm ok with it. But FWD? I hope you didn't wonder about it for long! Rather contentiously I wonder if the best layout might have a very concentrated drivetrain/battery mass and electric motors driving each front wheel. FWD would provide the best regen and torque vectoring could be used to provide exceptional turn in and pointiness.
ZesPak said:
apexeater said:
A good example maybe:
Tesla Elise 1305kg
lotus Elise series 2 heaviest variant 910kg
Approx 400kg to electrify the Elise, even allowing for efficiencies and a 20kw/h batt vs the 54kw/h in the Tesla (approx 200kg) you are going to add closer to 200kg
I wouldn’t contemplate a 7 with max 20kw/h as you waont have access to that amount, again my opinion but for a frustration free product you would need to be looking closer to 40kw/h
Tbf, calling the Tesla Roadster an "electrified Elise" is a bit unfair the two cars share a different ethos and the Roadster was the longest range ev at the time, and quite a bit more powerful than the Elise. It wasn't designed to be a lightweight sportscar.Tesla Elise 1305kg
lotus Elise series 2 heaviest variant 910kg
Approx 400kg to electrify the Elise, even allowing for efficiencies and a 20kw/h batt vs the 54kw/h in the Tesla (approx 200kg) you are going to add closer to 200kg
I wouldn’t contemplate a 7 with max 20kw/h as you waont have access to that amount, again my opinion but for a frustration free product you would need to be looking closer to 40kw/h
As many have seen, the extra oomph and freedom with weight distribution can possibly make up for another 100kg at the kerb.
And with all of the EV's seemingly requiring the use of a "skateboard chassis", which are all pretty much laid out the same, there doesn't seem to be a lot of freedom with weight distribution.
Anyway, people who seem to want to see a nine hundred kilo front wheel drive Caterham are probably not going to buy one. Nor will anyone else for that matter.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff