RE: New Porsche Cayman R Revealed

[Wills2]

Porscheplayer said:

I’ve had both 911 and Cayman S and prefer the 911 easily; it’s nothing to do with badge snobby or anything like that.

Oh yes it is haven't you been reading this thread.

[Beefmeister]

sledge68 said:

you like it, i dont, there is no need for derogatory comments,

an opinion is not wrong, its different

i was jesting about the Carrera 4S as the guy in it actually laughed as i out accelerated him off a roundabout

please refrain from being rude

its nice to be important, but more important to be nice

Beefmeister said:

sledge68 said:

Porsche collaborated with Subaru in the development of the Legacy GTB.

Maybe if i said i had out performed him in my integrale i would get a different comment?

Beefmeister said:

sledge68 said:

you can go 911 baiting in a legacy gtb, carrera 4 s dealt with on sunday along the a3

Well i bet the Porsche driver was incensed with rage and embarrassment. I bet he went home, killed his wife in anger, then burnt the C4S to a crisp with her bloodied, lifeless body inside.


Or maybe, just maybe, he was quite happy in his lovely Porsche and didn't give a crap that someone in a Subaru 'dealt with him'...

I shall repost what i said earlier today, as it's fitting...

Earlier I said:

• <- the point______________________________________________you ->

Chortle. All i said was that you are missing the point. The fact that you are saying you 'dealt with' someone in a £70k Coupe in either car is the point - the Porsche driver wouldn't have cared either way.

Lets agree to disagree eh?

[Carl_Docklands]

Some pinch of salt to be taken here but there is a chance that the Cayman R will be quicker than a Gen2 911 C2S around some of the usual suspect tracks. Taken from laptimes:


Track 997 Carrera S (2008 facelift) Cayman S(facelift) PDK
Nordschleife 7:50.00 8:06.00
Tsukuba 1:05.35 1:06.66
Hockenheim Short 1:13.40 1:13.90
Virginia International Raceway 3:05.80 3:05.80
Autozeitung test track 1:39.00 1:40.60
Balocco 2:54.30 2:55.04
SportAuto wet handling test 1:30.50 1:34.40
Sachsenring 1:39.08 1:40.58
Anglesey National 1:03.20 1:04.10

[Carl_Docklands]

And against the Evora:

Track Cayman S(facelift) PDK Evora
Hockenheim Short 1:13.90 1:14.30
Willow Springs 1:38.30 1:38.51
Buttonwillow Configuration 13 2:05.01 2:07.00
Balocco 2:55.04 2:56.03
Rockingham 1:37.07 w 1:37.94 w
Sachsenring 1:40.58 1:43.70

[Mermaid]

Carl_Docklands said:

Some pinch of salt to be taken here but there is a chance that the Cayman R will be quicker than a Gen2 911 C2S around some of the usual suspect tracks. Taken from laptimes:


Track 997 Carrera S (2008 facelift) Cayman S(facelift) PDK
Nordschleife 7:50.00 8:06.00

Altogether likely,and this will probably be a departure from previous Porsche policy for it will make money.

[Tallbut Buxomly]

I read this in my autocar and burst out laughing when i got to the bit about it costing 5k more than the normal cayman s.

Porsche knows its's buyers so well. Less for more. This has to be a running German joke i know they do have an odd but very cool sense of humour.

[juansolo]

Tallbut Buxomly said:

I read this in my autocar and burst out laughing when i got to the bit about it costing 5k more than the normal cayman s.

Porsche knows its's buyers so well. Less for more. This has to be a running German joke i know they do have an odd but very cool sense of humour.

...and it's also complete bks. Like with the Spyder, add the bits that the R has to the S and you'll find it' costs significantly more.

[Wills2]

Mermaid said:

Carl_Docklands said:

Some pinch of salt to be taken here but there is a chance that the Cayman R will be quicker than a Gen2 911 C2S around some of the usual suspect tracks. Taken from laptimes:


Track 997 Carrera S (2008 facelift) Cayman S(facelift) PDK
Nordschleife 7:50.00 8:06.00

Altogether likely,and this will probably be a departure from previous Porsche policy for it will make money.

Do you think an extra 10bhp 55kg less will reduce the cayman's time by 16 secs round that circuit?

[Mermaid]

Wills2 said:

Mermaid said:

Carl_Docklands said:

Some pinch of salt to be taken here but there is a chance that the Cayman R will be quicker than a Gen2 911 C2S around some of the usual suspect tracks. Taken from laptimes:


Track 997 Carrera S (2008 facelift) Cayman S(facelift) PDK
Nordschleife 7:50.00 8:06.00

Altogether likely,and this will probably be a departure from previous Porsche policy for it will make money.

Do you think an extra 10bhp 55kg less will reduce the cayman's time by 16 secs round that circuit?

I don't know, but if they were to offer Cup tyres (as with the CSL) on the car & Ceramics (as with the RS4 ) then possible. But it's going to be a smaller gap than the Cayman S. Also the average punter is likely to achieve a faster time with the Cayman R than the 997 C2S IMO.

Edited by Mermaid on Wednesday 17th November 19:15

[juansolo]

Wills2 said:

Mermaid said:

Carl_Docklands said:

Some pinch of salt to be taken here but there is a chance that the Cayman R will be quicker than a Gen2 911 C2S around some of the usual suspect tracks. Taken from laptimes:


Track 997 Carrera S (2008 facelift) Cayman S(facelift) PDK
Nordschleife 7:50.00 8:06.00

Altogether likely,and this will probably be a departure from previous Porsche policy for it will make money.

Do you think an extra 10bhp 55kg less will reduce the cayman's time by 16 secs round that circuit?

...are any of us actually good enough for it to matter?

In fact, does that completely negate the point of the C2S as well as the R? Hell in reality you could probably make do with a non-S and still have a scream...

Now there's a thought! ;-)

[Wills2]

Mermaid said:

Wills2 said:

Mermaid said:

Carl_Docklands said:

Some pinch of salt to be taken here but there is a chance that the Cayman R will be quicker than a Gen2 911 C2S around some of the usual suspect tracks. Taken from laptimes:


Track 997 Carrera S (2008 facelift) Cayman S(facelift) PDK
Nordschleife 7:50.00 8:06.00

Altogether likely,and this will probably be a departure from previous Porsche policy for it will make money.

Do you think an extra 10bhp 55kg less will reduce the cayman's time by 16 secs round that circuit?

I don't know, but if they were to offer Cup tyres (as with the CSL) on the car & Ceramics (as with the RS4 ) then possible. But it's going to be a smaller gap than the Cayman S. Also the average punter is likely to achieve a faster time with the Cayman R than the 997 C2S IMO.

Edited by Mermaid on Wednesday 17th November 19:15

Remember 16sec is the difference between the ring times of the 385bhp C2S and the new 530bhp GTR so the Cayman R would struggle to make the same gap up IMHO.

[Wills2]

juansolo said:

Wills2 said:

Mermaid said:

Carl_Docklands said:

Some pinch of salt to be taken here but there is a chance that the Cayman R will be quicker than a Gen2 911 C2S around some of the usual suspect tracks. Taken from laptimes:


Track 997 Carrera S (2008 facelift) Cayman S(facelift) PDK
Nordschleife 7:50.00 8:06.00

Altogether likely,and this will probably be a departure from previous Porsche policy for it will make money.

Do you think an extra 10bhp 55kg less will reduce the cayman's time by 16 secs round that circuit?

...are any of us actually good enough for it to matter?

In fact, does that completely negate the point of the C2S as well as the R? Hell in reality you could probably make do with a non-S and still have a scream...

Now there's a thought! ;-)

Of course not but that shouldn't stop us from pontificating.

[Porscheplayer]

HAB said:

RobM77 said:

I don't see why the things I mentioned for improvement on the Cayman couldn't be applied to the standard Cayman and S models. The GT3 is another step on, and really a fast road and track day car, I was thinking more of improvements for the standard model. I don't think steering feel, a responsive throttle or a better driving position are "hardcore" - they're just things I would expect from Porsche but which they don't deliver.

With respect, your repeated 'improvements' are purely opinion, and completely subjective. In fact, given from my own experiences, what I've heard first hand from Cayman owners, and the media in general; your views on the Caymans weaknesses are not one shared by very many. I've come to the conclusion they seem to be something that exist for a few on PH, but not in the real world!

Don't get me wrong - every car has much room for improvement, but it's harder to make on overall well-rounded package, than something that excels in one or two areas. And overall, as an ownership prospect the Cayman is very, very good and arguably the best in it's class. They don't really do it for me, (mainly the looks, and a little too modern/refined) but I can appreciate why they're so highly regarded.

I also find this 'They won't develop it, because it would usurp the 911' attitude distinctly odd. Nearly every marque has a model hierarchy - why on earth would Porsche be any different?

However, given the history of the 'R' moniker in Porsches history, the Cayman R is possibly one of the most cynical marketing exercises they've ever done (and that's saying something)

Edited by HAB on Wednesday 17th November 17:21

Correct on all counts, the "a responsive throttle or a better driving position " comment is way off the mark

[juansolo]

Wills2 said:

juansolo said:

Wills2 said:

Mermaid said:

Carl_Docklands said:

Some pinch of salt to be taken here but there is a chance that the Cayman R will be quicker than a Gen2 911 C2S around some of the usual suspect tracks. Taken from laptimes:


Track 997 Carrera S (2008 facelift) Cayman S(facelift) PDK
Nordschleife 7:50.00 8:06.00

Altogether likely,and this will probably be a departure from previous Porsche policy for it will make money.

Do you think an extra 10bhp 55kg less will reduce the cayman's time by 16 secs round that circuit?

...are any of us actually good enough for it to matter?

In fact, does that completely negate the point of the C2S as well as the R? Hell in reality you could probably make do with a non-S and still have a scream...

Now there's a thought! ;-)

Of course not but that shouldn't stop us from pontificating.

Damn right!

[havoc]

Porscheplayer said:

HAB said:

RobM77 said:

I don't see why the things I mentioned for improvement on the Cayman couldn't be applied to the standard Cayman and S models. The GT3 is another step on, and really a fast road and track day car, I was thinking more of improvements for the standard model. I don't think steering feel, a responsive throttle or a better driving position are "hardcore" - they're just things I would expect from Porsche but which they don't deliver.

With respect, your repeated 'improvements' are purely opinion, and completely subjective. In fact, given from my own experiences, what I've heard first hand from Cayman owners, and the media in general; your views on the Caymans weaknesses are not one shared by very many. I've come to the conclusion they seem to be something that exist for a few on PH, but not in the real world!

Don't get me wrong - every car has much room for improvement, but it's harder to make on overall well-rounded package, than something that excels in one or two areas. And overall, as an ownership prospect the Cayman is very, very good and arguably the best in it's class. They don't really do it for me, (mainly the looks, and a little too modern/refined) but I can appreciate why they're so highly regarded.

I also find this 'They won't develop it, because it would usurp the 911' attitude distinctly odd. Nearly every marque has a model hierarchy - why on earth would Porsche be any different?

However, given the history of the 'R' moniker in Porsches history, the Cayman R is possibly one of the most cynical marketing exercises they've ever done (and that's saying something)

Edited by HAB on Wednesday 17th November 17:21

Correct on all counts, the "a responsive throttle or a better driving position " comment is way off the mark

Of all the people on here, I've found Rob's comments on the driveability of cars to be more precise and considered than almost everyone else.

- Road-testers won't moan about a car too much as manufacturers have been known to take offence. Plus most cars are heading the same way, so compared against the current competition there's not a lot better. Doesn't mean it's right though - compare steering, throttle-response and ride quality vs a 1990s supercar like a 993 or an NSX and you'll realise how bad modern cars really are!

- Owners won't always give you a 'warts and all' opinion as they won't want people to think they've bought the wrong car - particularly owners of 'image' cars (which Porsche most definitely are). Plus how many owners actually go out and test-drive half the competition before buying their car - many buy on looks, image and maybe road-tests!

[Wills2]

juansolo said:

Wills2 said:

juansolo said:

Wills2 said:

Mermaid said:

Carl_Docklands said:

Some pinch of salt to be taken here but there is a chance that the Cayman R will be quicker than a Gen2 911 C2S around some of the usual suspect tracks. Taken from laptimes:


Track 997 Carrera S (2008 facelift) Cayman S(facelift) PDK
Nordschleife 7:50.00 8:06.00

Altogether likely,and this will probably be a departure from previous Porsche policy for it will make money.

Do you think an extra 10bhp 55kg less will reduce the cayman's time by 16 secs round that circuit?

...are any of us actually good enough for it to matter?

In fact, does that completely negate the point of the C2S as well as the R? Hell in reality you could probably make do with a non-S and still have a scream...

Now there's a thought! ;-)

Of course not but that shouldn't stop us from pontificating.

Damn right!

I had a boxster 2.9 for a day and that was a great drive too.

[Niffty951]

Where's the turbo model!! The turbo.. come on that's what we all want really!

[obscene]

juansolo said:

A massive disappointment. Air-con is essential in a coupe and rubbish though the radio is, most people spec it, and when you add those back there's little in the way of weight saving. If you were allowed to pick the combination of options on the Cayman S, the only things this car is adding of worth is the Spyder suspension and a tiny hike in power. They've not gone anywhere near far enough with this.

Also I don't like the spoiler and was hoping for something more along the lines of the Spyder in that respect. It's lazy just slapping the aero pack on and painting a few things black. The spyder *looks* special. This is just a parts bin special. Even if it was using the bumpers/spoiler from the Spyder, at least then they'd both have the same look.

The half-arsedness of it all is a show stopper for me. They had a real opportunity to give the Cayman some teeth here and they've once again cowered away behind the bulbous rump of a 911. Very disappointing, but on the plus side it saves me a load of cash so I'm not complaining too much.

Edited by juansolo on Wednesday 17th November 10:31

Last time I checked there was still a Porsche badge on it.

[clarki]

Stunning!!

Being a megane R26.R owner this car, as you can probably imagine, is right up my street. Deals with the commute during the week and then head off for some trackday fun with your mates at the weekend - perfect.

Only problems; I havent got £52K and personnally I think the lack of aircon is not a good move.

However, if you do end up buying one, I will be very jealous!!

[RadQuinn]

Yeah, it's nice...

But it doesn't look any nicer (to me) than most other porches... so..meh.