Petrol prices- when does the madness end?
Discussion
Fastdruid said:
The issue as ever is not that we produce it (or not) but rather the (world) market prices and those are driven up by events in Ukraine/Russia. Same with everything else as well. for example wheat prices. The UK is self-sufficient and not dependent on Ukraine wheat but because the scarcity has driven prices up the UK prices have also risen.
Exactly.This is of course the whole premise of the recently announced windfall tax on the oil companies.
Recent events have driven the price of oil on the open market upwards, but the cost of getting the stuff out of the ground hasn't risen. This significant additional revenue for oil producers tips almost exclusively into profit. Hence the windfall tax is a relatively easy (and politically popular) course of action for the government in this time of need.
Gweeds said:
And of course with fuel tax and VAT on fuel the tax take for the government here isn't insignificant.
I wonder if they're looking at cutting VAT on fuel because I assume that can't be milked by the forecourts.
They're not looking at anything apart from saving Big Dog at the moment. We're just being let to get on with it.I wonder if they're looking at cutting VAT on fuel because I assume that can't be milked by the forecourts.
Fastdruid said:
Even with prices being what they are an EV is still not economically viable when you're talking about spending thousands to save a few hundred. It's the old classic of spending ~£10k on a newer car to save £100 VED/year and 5mpg.
The times when it does make sense are if you are:
I worked out just a short while ago that it would be 4 years payback on even the cheapest Leaf (~£5k) I could find if I could replace my daily...but a leaf *couldn't* replace the daily for everything (its too small for family + dog) and so I'd still need a second car *or* hire something which would mean the payback would be >12 years and expecting an already 11 year old car to last another 12 is unrealistic (not talking even about battery life etc, just normal stuff, rust etc).
I didn't spend thousands to save a few hundred.The times when it does make sense are if you are:
- A company car owner making massive BIK savings.
- On the PCP escalator and need a new car every 2-4 regardless.
- Going to get a new car regardless.
- Do massive regular daily mileages within the range of an EV.
I worked out just a short while ago that it would be 4 years payback on even the cheapest Leaf (~£5k) I could find if I could replace my daily...but a leaf *couldn't* replace the daily for everything (its too small for family + dog) and so I'd still need a second car *or* hire something which would mean the payback would be >12 years and expecting an already 11 year old car to last another 12 is unrealistic (not talking even about battery life etc, just normal stuff, rust etc).
I do 20,000 miles a year - so will save around £11,000 a year in fuel, servicing and road tax compared to the RR. I also put it through my company, so have saved there too - the car will have fully paid for itself in 2.7 years.
Depends on individual use cases, in my case it works very well. But my original point was that electricity would have to rise by a phenomenal amount to make running an EV costly.
NDA said:
Fastdruid said:
Even with prices being what they are an EV is still not economically viable when you're talking about spending thousands to save a few hundred. It's the old classic of spending ~£10k on a newer car to save £100 VED/year and 5mpg.
The times when it does make sense are if you are:
I worked out just a short while ago that it would be 4 years payback on even the cheapest Leaf (~£5k) I could find if I could replace my daily...but a leaf *couldn't* replace the daily for everything (its too small for family + dog) and so I'd still need a second car *or* hire something which would mean the payback would be >12 years and expecting an already 11 year old car to last another 12 is unrealistic (not talking even about battery life etc, just normal stuff, rust etc).
I didn't spend thousands to save a few hundred.The times when it does make sense are if you are:
- A company car owner making massive BIK savings.
- On the PCP escalator and need a new car every 2-4 regardless.
- Going to get a new car regardless.
- Do massive regular daily mileages within the range of an EV.
I worked out just a short while ago that it would be 4 years payback on even the cheapest Leaf (~£5k) I could find if I could replace my daily...but a leaf *couldn't* replace the daily for everything (its too small for family + dog) and so I'd still need a second car *or* hire something which would mean the payback would be >12 years and expecting an already 11 year old car to last another 12 is unrealistic (not talking even about battery life etc, just normal stuff, rust etc).
I do 20,000 miles a year - so will save around £11,000 a year in fuel, servicing and road tax compared to the RR. I also put it through my company, so have saved there too - the car will have fully paid for itself in 2.7 years.
Depends on individual use cases, in my case it works very well. But my original point was that electricity would have to rise by a phenomenal amount to make running an EV costly.
If I was saving £11k/year I'd be doing the same. As it stands I would save maybe £500/year if electricity was free and there were no other costs with an EV!
If I could pick up something like a shagged Leaf that had 10Mi range for £500 I'd snap it up for local journeys but as the cheapest is about £5k and with fuel prices still rising not a hope in hell. I paid a personal record high price on Saturday evening at Esso, Blyth Services, Notts.
Two pounds and six pence per litre for their 99 Octane offering. Just in case you wish to avoid. Hey I was low on fuel and managed to fit 66 litres into a car that supposedly only has a 65 litre tank. Skills.
Two pounds and six pence per litre for their 99 Octane offering. Just in case you wish to avoid. Hey I was low on fuel and managed to fit 66 litres into a car that supposedly only has a 65 litre tank. Skills.
bigothunter said:
NDA said:
My Range Rover is £180 to fill up. My Tesla £15 (from empty to full). I think the price of 'trickery would have to increase a huge amount for an EV to be seen as expensive to run.
I am taking a V8 to the Med this summer. I expect the petrol costs to be mahoosive. Ho hum.
For a man of your obvious wealth, a couple of grand blown on petrol is hardly significant...I am taking a V8 to the Med this summer. I expect the petrol costs to be mahoosive. Ho hum.
Fastdruid said:
ashenfie said:
NDA said:
Welshbeef said:
With EV pence per mile stepping up with energy costs nothing is easy is it now.
My Range Rover is £180 to fill up. My Tesla £15 (from empty to full). I think the price of 'trickery would have to increase a huge amount for an EV to be seen as expensive to run.I am taking a V8 to the Med this summer. I expect the petrol costs to be mahoosive. Ho hum.
The UK government is planning for power cuts and using coal in power stations, so you might want to keep hold of your RR just in case
The times when it does make sense are if you are:
- A company car owner making massive BIK savings.
- On the PCP escalator and need a new car every 2-4 regardless.
- Going to get a new car regardless.
- Do massive regular daily mileages within the range of an EV.
I worked out just a short while ago that it would be 4 years payback on even the cheapest Leaf (~£5k) I could find if I could replace my daily...but a leaf *couldn't* replace the daily for everything (its too small for family + dog) and so I'd still need a second car *or* hire something which would mean the payback would be >12 years and expecting an already 11 year old car to last another 12 is unrealistic (not talking even about battery life etc, just normal stuff, rust etc).
Gets 36 mpg generally to work and back, 50 miles round trip.
Easily within EV range, almost for the whole 5 day working week.
Currently about £56.00 a week in fuel.
We were considering a fully electric MG, or a Hyundai Kona, used is all we could afford.
There must be a break even point, and I think we are there.
Edited by Register1 on Tuesday 31st May 20:57
alfaspecial said:
Mr Spoon said:
None of the forecourts are profiteering. None.
It is the major oil companies that control the supplied fuel price to this country. A forecourt making a few extra pence per litre is nothing in comparison to the tens of pence per litre the majors make by holding back supply, making allocation decisions.
It is however the forecourts that take the brunt of the public opinion. Think about it, they have to buy fuel off another business to resell. Forecourts are geographically supplied.
There is another thread about heating oil where I have posted a lot about this.
Mr Spoon, I presume your post is a reply to mine....It is the major oil companies that control the supplied fuel price to this country. A forecourt making a few extra pence per litre is nothing in comparison to the tens of pence per litre the majors make by holding back supply, making allocation decisions.
It is however the forecourts that take the brunt of the public opinion. Think about it, they have to buy fuel off another business to resell. Forecourts are geographically supplied.
There is another thread about heating oil where I have posted a lot about this.
I gave a specific example, local to me, where a major petrol retailer (Euro Garages, who 'own' ASDA) has a business model of maximising profit my maximising prices. Price competition between PFS in Frome and the surrounding area has decreased. It's been an observable fact.
What I'm getting at, if you think it's the forecourt that is profiteering, then it is nothing compared to the majors. Nothing.
Forget the piece difference. It's minimal.
jamei303 said:
Just buy shares in BP and Shell if you're convinced they're going to continue making massive profits by fixing the market.
At £1-704, UK petrol is still cheaper than:Switzerland*
Barbados*
Israel*
Portugal*
Liechtenstein
Singapore*
Germany*
Netherlands*
Sweden*
Monaco
Greece*
Central African Rep.
Iceland*
Finland*
Denmark*
Norway*
Hong Kong*
UK is excelling with diesel, where at £1-824 we are only cheaper than:
Finland*
Iceland*
Sweden*
Monaco
Norway*
Hong Kong*
Thank goodness the Chancellor stepped forward with his 5p fuel tax reduction
bigothunter said:
outnumbered said:
Shnozz said:
Are the roads less busy as a result?
Not that I’ve noticed. What about people on lower incomes who need a car to get about and do their job?
Is this the typical PH answer of “f
k them, they aren’t as important as I am”bigothunter said:
outnumbered said:
Shnozz said:
Are the roads less busy as a result?
Not that I’ve noticed. Do you like to see people with oil heating and oil heated hot water suffering financially?
Dog Star said:
We must be getting to the stage where the more entitled and light fingered members of our society start syphoning - or more likely just stabbing holes in the tank (and writing cars off) - fuel.
Don’t you remember this chap?https://forecourttrader.co.uk/news/fuel-thief-fill...
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