Are the wheels about to fall of car finance?
Discussion
nickfrog said:
Hiya HD. Feel free to call me Nick.
I bought my M135i as I felt that the finance route wasn't best for this particular car at the time. £315/month amortised vs £250 monthly depreciation that I actually experienced selling at 12 months ; having said that, I am ignoring the opportunity cost so not that much in it in reality.
As for new leased/PCPed vs 2-year old, I have shared my experience with you and demonstrated that it CAN work well (but it doesn't always of course). You have replied to my message then ignoring the rationale but only focusing on the farting aspect (which was a detail). You have then forgotten that you replied to it (even though it was less 24h after) and had a go at me for not replying, which I had done.
Do you want me to copy the post, for your convenience ? (it makes amusing reading IMO)
Cheers
Nick
Obviously Frog nobody is arguing that if a PCP deal works out better than depreciation on a new car then that is not the better route IF the purchaser insists on new rather than 2 years old. In those (rare) circumstances it would obviously be the better choice. However my point is that those deals with be the minority and the majority of people AREN'T carefully evaluating the options before deciding to choose PCP - they are saying 'new cars cost x, I don't have x, but I could stretch to y on PCP so I'll do that'. The very same people that would laugh at the idea of renting a toaster. That's how our economy is evolving - juicing people on the monthlies on everything from phones to now cars, whilst people smugly run around shouting 'if it depreciates rent it' over and over again as they pay the cost of owning outright at 3 years to rent for 3 years as if they makes them PhDs in economics. I bought my M135i as I felt that the finance route wasn't best for this particular car at the time. £315/month amortised vs £250 monthly depreciation that I actually experienced selling at 12 months ; having said that, I am ignoring the opportunity cost so not that much in it in reality.
As for new leased/PCPed vs 2-year old, I have shared my experience with you and demonstrated that it CAN work well (but it doesn't always of course). You have replied to my message then ignoring the rationale but only focusing on the farting aspect (which was a detail). You have then forgotten that you replied to it (even though it was less 24h after) and had a go at me for not replying, which I had done.
Do you want me to copy the post, for your convenience ? (it makes amusing reading IMO)
Cheers
Nick
Edited by nickfrog on Monday 30th October 10:14
HumanDoing said:
Obviously Frog ...
Nick has suggested several times now you call him Nick. He is french BTW so you referring him as frog could be construed as antagonistic and a little bit racist Personally I cringe a little every time you do it.If you really want to be shown respect on forum threads then you need to start respecting others too.
nickfrog said:
Why would they necessarily be expensive ? If they beat depreciation, which they can do IME, I would call them good value.
Any money saved can therefore be used to pay off debt and/or go towards additional pension contributions.
That's precisely what we're doing as the 40% fiscal incentive is too good to ignore although I wonder how long that will last !
With respect I think you’re missing the point, you may well be a wealthy powerfully built PHer but many are regular people who 10 years ago had an unsecured loan and we’re running around in a cheap 5 year old Ford Focus.Any money saved can therefore be used to pay off debt and/or go towards additional pension contributions.
That's precisely what we're doing as the 40% fiscal incentive is too good to ignore although I wonder how long that will last !
The motivation for everyone to now look like a “player” is creating unsustainable household debt which is subsidised by low mortgage repayments. For a lot of these families £400 a month is a lot of money and has been diverted from elsewhere.
Gunk said:
nickfrog said:
Why would they necessarily be expensive ? If they beat depreciation, which they can do IME, I would call them good value.
Any money saved can therefore be used to pay off debt and/or go towards additional pension contributions.
That's precisely what we're doing as the 40% fiscal incentive is too good to ignore although I wonder how long that will last !
With respect I think you’re missing the point, you may well be a wealthy powerfully built PHer but many are regular people who 10 years ago had an unsecured loan and we’re running around in a cheap 5 year old Ford Focus.Any money saved can therefore be used to pay off debt and/or go towards additional pension contributions.
That's precisely what we're doing as the 40% fiscal incentive is too good to ignore although I wonder how long that will last !
The motivation for everyone to now look like a “player” is creating unsustainable household debt which is subsidised by low mortgage repayments. For a lot of these families £400 a month is a lot of money and has been diverted from elsewhere.
Noone is suggesting everyone "has" to buy a new car.
If a 10 year old car works out best for a particular individuals circumstances and budget then great.
If buying used works best at say 1 years old or 2 years old for a person then super.
I bought my Passat at a year old as it made sense for the price I was paying and the duration I intend to keep it however that doesn't make everyone else's choices wrong.
Edited by daemon on Monday 30th October 10:45
I agree but we are heading towards a culture that everything has to be brand new and I can understand the excitement of having a brand new car as I have a new company car every three years.
However it is nice to pick up a mint used car for a fraction of its new cost, you feel like you’ve beaten the system!
However it is nice to pick up a mint used car for a fraction of its new cost, you feel like you’ve beaten the system!
Mandat said:
HD has a selective memory, and seemingly f
k all knowledge about car finance products, as evidenced in other threads.
I haven't quite figured out whether he is just trolling all of us, or is genuinely as ignorant, as he makes himself out to be.
Umcalled-for abuse. Please tell me what is trolling about pointing out that most PCPers pay for their pcp what it costs to buy the car outright at 3 years? I think you're accusing 'trolling' with 'holding a view with which you disagree' k all knowledge about car finance products, as evidenced in other threads.I haven't quite figured out whether he is just trolling all of us, or is genuinely as ignorant, as he makes himself out to be.
HumanDoing said:
Obviously Frog nobody is arguing that if a PCP deal works out better than depreciation on a new car then that is not the better route IF the purchaser insists on new rather than 2 years old. In those (rare) circumstances it would obviously be the better choice. However my point is that those deals with be the minority and the majority of people AREN'T carefully evaluating the options before deciding to choose PCP - they are saying 'new cars cost x, I don't have x, but I could stretch to y on PCP so I'll do that'. The very same people that would laugh at the idea of renting a toaster. That's how our economy is evolving - juicing people on the monthlies on everything from phones to now cars, whilst people smugly run around shouting 'if it depreciates rent it' over and over again as they pay the cost of owning outright at 3 years to rent for 3 years as if they makes them PhDs in economics.
No, I have demonstrated that lease CAN work out as well as 2 year old, not just new (not always though).How do you know the those circumstance are rare ? Can you share the data ? You need to show your workings.
And if they are a minority, what does it matter ? Are you not going to get those deals out of solidarity for the majority ?
No one runs around shouting "if it depreciates rent it". And even if they do, what does it matter to you?
HumanDoing said:
Umcalled-for abuse. Please tell me what is trolling about pointing out that most PCPers pay for their pcp what it costs to buy the car outright at 3 years? I think you're accusing 'trolling' with 'holding a view with which you disagree'
You are pointing out that 3yr old cars are less money than new cars , you are correct, well done daemon said:
Nick has suggested several times now you call him Nick. He is french BTW so you referring him as frog could be construed as antagonistic and a little bit racist Personally I cringe a little every time you do it.
If you really want to be shown respect on forum threads then you need to start respecting others too.
I thought he was Dutch? Anyway the idea Im being racist is completely ludicrous and I abhor the accusation. Frankly I'd rather people like you didnt derail this thread as you have others (that I am now keeping away from due to the bullying and its effects on me) with pointless insults and anger directed towards me. If you really want to be shown respect on forum threads then you need to start respecting others too.
Dont like what I post? Fine, ignore it, after all 'Im only doing it for attention' right?
Gunk said:
I agree but we are heading towards a culture that everything has to be brand new and I can understand the excitement of having a brand new car as I have a new company car every three years.
However it is nice to pick up a mint used car for a fraction of its new cost, you feel like you’ve beaten the system!
Agreed. However it is nice to pick up a mint used car for a fraction of its new cost, you feel like you’ve beaten the system!
Yes some of the best cars I've owned have been often well used gems I've picked up.
New doesnt always mean best
HumanDoing said:
I thought he was Dutch? Anyway the idea Im being racist is completely ludicrous and I abhor the accusation. Frankly I'd rather people like you didnt derail this thread as you have others (that I am now keeping away from due to the bullying and its effects on me) with pointless insults and anger directed towards me.
Dont like what I post? Fine, ignore it, after all 'Im only doing it for attention' right?
Not sure maybe he is and I am happy to stand corrected by Nick if french isn't his primary language.Dont like what I post? Fine, ignore it, after all 'Im only doing it for attention' right?
I am merely suggesting you don't call him frog. He has asked you nicely several times.
HumanDoing said:
Dont like what I post? Fine, ignore it, after all 'Im only doing it for attention' right?
I was offering some constructive feedback however your approach seems to be you can be insulting and aggressive to people and we should just ignore it however when people are (in your mind) insulting and aggressive to you you immediately whip out the bullying card?Constructively if you calmed down your own aggression and insults you might well find people are more receptive to you and your views?
daemon said:
Not sure maybe he is and I am happy to stand corrected by Nick if french isn't his primary language.
I am merely suggesting you don't call him frog. He has asked you nicely several times.
Was that before or after he repeatedly stated my wife must have a physical or mental disability? I am merely suggesting you don't call him frog. He has asked you nicely several times.
daemon said:
HumanDoing said:
I thought he was Dutch? Anyway the idea Im being racist is completely ludicrous and I abhor the accusation. Frankly I'd rather people like you didnt derail this thread as you have others (that I am now keeping away from due to the bullying and its effects on me) with pointless insults and anger directed towards me.
Dont like what I post? Fine, ignore it, after all 'Im only doing it for attention' right?
Not sure maybe he is and I am happy to stand corrected by Nick if french isn't his primary language.Dont like what I post? Fine, ignore it, after all 'Im only doing it for attention' right?
I am merely suggesting you don't call him frog. He has asked you nicely several times.
. You did kindly point that out to HD once already but his memory is not great (this is not an attack HD btw, don't get mad, just going by your astounding inability to remember stuff you posted in the last 24h).HumanDoing said:
daemon said:
Not sure maybe he is and I am happy to stand corrected by Nick if french isn't his primary language.
I am merely suggesting you don't call him frog. He has asked you nicely several times.
Was that before or after he repeatedly stated my wife must have a physical or mental disability? I am merely suggesting you don't call him frog. He has asked you nicely several times.
nickfrog said:
Yes French, but I can't help it . You did kindly point that out to HD once already but his memory is not great (this is not an attack HD btw, don't get mad, just going by your astounding inability to remember stuff you posted in the last 24h).
Ah right sorry I thought you were Dutch. . You did kindly point that out to HD once already but his memory is not great (this is not an attack HD btw, don't get mad, just going by your astounding inability to remember stuff you posted in the last 24h).Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff