RE: New Ginetta G60 Road Car Revealed

[kambites]

RudeDog said:

kambites said:

But I'd hazard that 90% of car buyers care more about how a car looks than how it goes.

That would be an interesting poll. However I doubt a PH poll would support your statistic.

No, of course it wouldn't. But this is PH so (1) it's not a representative sample of the driving population as a whole and (2) peer pressure will push people to lie anyway.

The number of threads on here which are full of people saying "I wouldn't buy that, it's ugly" always seems to me to outnumber the number of threads with people saying "I wouldn't buy that, it doesn't handle well enough" or "I wouldn't buy that, it's not fast enough".

[kambites]

braddo said:

kambites said:

But I'd hazard that 90% of car buyers care more about how a car looks than how it goes.

But Ginetta G60 buyers?

No I agree that people who've even heard of the G60 will probably be skewed towards the "interested in how it drives" end of the spectrum.

[RudeDog]

kambites said:

braddo said:

kambites said:

But I'd hazard that 90% of car buyers care more about how a car looks than how it goes.

But Ginetta G60 buyers?

No I agree that people who've even heard of the G60 will probably be skewed towards the "interested in how it drives" end of the spectrum.

But it looks ugly...

[kambites]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

No, nothing wrong with it at all - everyone has different priorities and no one is any more valid than any other.

Although given that, it does seem strange to me that all of the cars in this market group are rather ugly to my eye, but maybe I'm just odd.

[RudeDog]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Coming from the only person on PH that like the look of the original 996, I know you stand by that statement!

[DonkeyApple]

kambites said:

RudeDog said:

kambites said:

But I'd hazard that 90% of car buyers care more about how a car looks than how it goes.

That would be an interesting poll. However I doubt a PH poll would support your statistic.

No, of course it wouldn't. But this is PH so (1) it's not a representative sample of the driving population as a whole and (2) peer pressure will push people to lie anyway.

The number of threads on here which are full of people saying "I wouldn't buy that, it's ugly" always seems to me to outnumber the number of threads with people saying "I wouldn't buy that, it doesn't handle well enough" or "I wouldn't buy that, it's not fast enough".

Whether we like it or not the money lies, in the modern world, in image and no longer substance.

It can be the greatest car in the world for it's price bracket but if the general population are not of the opinion that it is 'cool' and makes the driver feel 'superior' then your number of potential buyers drops shockingly.

People who buy on merit are in a minority that is so small that it is hard to build any kind of business model around them today. Image is everything.

Very sad and sadly, very true.

Mind you at 50 cars a year, and a race series to raise brand awareness of the company, if not the specific product should mean that this hopefully isn't an issue in this case. If they wanted to shift 500+ a year then I would argue that without the 'brand' (where brand denotes 'cool' and 'affluent') then it wouldn't be possible.

[_Neal_]

Twincam16 said:

I get the point about ABS though. It hardly detracts from the driving experience and it is IMO one of the things that seriously undermined TVR.

I like the look of this car, and I love TVRs, but couldn't agree more with the above. Switchable ABS would be perfect, and not unreasonable in a £68k car.

[ewenm]

_Neal_ said:

Twincam16 said:

I get the point about ABS though. It hardly detracts from the driving experience and it is IMO one of the things that seriously undermined TVR.

I like the look of this car, and I love TVRs, but couldn't agree more with the above. Switchable ABS would be perfect, and not unreasonable in a £68k car.

How would you achieve that without servo'd brakes? Or would having servo'd brakes be an acceptable compromise to gain ABS?

[kambites]

DonkeyApple said:

People who buy on merit are in a minority that is so small that it is hard to build any kind of business model around them today. Image is everything.

True, but are there 50 of them a year in the market for an 80k sports car?

[kambites]

ewenm said:

How would you achieve that without servo'd brakes? Or would having servo'd brakes be an acceptable compromise to gain ABS?

Could you not only have the servo being "neutral" (ie providing zero assistance) until the ABS needs to kick in?

[GhostDriver]

ewenm said:

Caterham already offer that with the 7. I suspect the new Caterham will be in a similar segment to the Ginetta G40R - does that meet your "light, cheap and fun" criteria?

under £40k would be my definition of that. A modern day Elise if ya like. Thats what I meant about someone picking up on the old Lotus philosophy. Although I suppose TVR tried that, and look what happened to them. As for the 7, no, something more useable please.

Ans as others have said, I too doubt the new Caterham will be any less than the Ginetta

[kambites]

GhostDriver said:

ewenm said:

Caterham already offer that with the 7. I suspect the new Caterham will be in a similar segment to the Ginetta G40R - does that meet your "light, cheap and fun" criteria?

under £40k would be my definition of that. A modern day Elise if ya like. Thats what I meant about someone picking up on the old Lotus philosophy. Although I suppose TVR tried that, and look what happened to them. As for the 7, no, something more useable please.

So the G40R does meet your definition?

[GhostDriver]

kambites said:

GhostDriver said:

ewenm said:

Caterham already offer that with the 7. I suspect the new Caterham will be in a similar segment to the Ginetta G40R - does that meet your "light, cheap and fun" criteria?

under £40k would be my definition of that. A modern day Elise if ya like. Thats what I meant about someone picking up on the old Lotus philosophy. Although I suppose TVR tried that, and look what happened to them. As for the 7, no, something more useable please.

So the G40R does meet your definition?

err, its not under £40k?

[kambites]

GhostDriver said:

err, its not under £40k?

It's under 30k! £29,950 on the road, to be precise.

[Niffty951]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I remember walking around the 996 at the motorshow (having arrived as a passenger in a 993 c2) and being deeply impressed by the first brave re-design of the 911 which looked fantastically futuristic at the time and yet somehow still managed to look like a 911. The lines looked so smooth and fluid. It was only time and popular opinion that made me cynical. Now 14years later I parked my 996 turbo next to a 993 turbo (my favourite looking car of all time) and realised for the first time that I actually prefered my 996 to the 993, which was finally starting to show it's age when seen side by side.

It's a nice car to look at in the flesh the 996 turbo. Especially now it looks small compared to new cars being released.

[GhostDriver]

kambites said:

GhostDriver said:

err, its not under £40k?

It's under 30k!

The Ginetta is £68k

[kambites]

GhostDriver said:

kambites said:

GhostDriver said:

err, its not under £40k?

It's under 30k!

The Ginetta is £68k

You do know there are two Ginettas? Car manufacturers are allowed to have more than one model. G60 - 68k; G40R - 30k.

I suppose you could view the G40R as a modern day Elise, and the G60 as a modern day Esprit, if you really wanted to.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 5th October 15:31

[_Neal_]

ewenm said:

How would you achieve that without servo'd brakes? Or would having servo'd brakes be an acceptable compromise to gain ABS?

Yes, in my view it would. This isn't meant to be a track special, it's a road car, so servo'd brakes would be fine, and there are plenty of well-judged systems out there. I'm not good enough to feel the threshold of braking grip through the pedal on track, let alone on the road.

And as this is a road car, it should be assumed that it will be driven gently now and again, perhaps in the rain, pootling back from a lunch with the in-laws or similar, or even (heaven forbid) by the owner's wife/girlfriend/boyfriend, who isn't that keen a driver. No ABS therefore strikes me as a backwards step.

[GhostDriver]

kambites said:

You do know there are two Ginettas? Car manufacturers are allowed to have more than one model. G60 - 68k; G40R - 30k.

Err yeah, but this is the G60 thread, I thought the thread would be to discuss the car in question.
But if your asking me, this is what the G40 should have been (in my perfect little world of course)

[RudeDog]

***** WARNING ******

Imminent threat of "Shut line" based posts on the horizon!!!!