RE: BMW M6 Gran Coupe - official

[HighwayStar]

Harji said:

E38Ross said:

Harji said:

It's too heavy.....

too heavy for what? to make that claim, i guess you must have driven it?

"I have not driven therefore I have no opinion" is that you? With todays materials and ethos of efficiceny I though car weight should be coming down or stabalising, but BMW especially seem to not make much effort in this department (for there M cars anyway), sleek and swift is what I associate with BMW, and I have one, have owned 2, and driven about 4.

The current 5 is bigger than the previous 5 and built as that model was the current 5 would be a lot heavier than it is. I suspect with extensive use of carbon in the soon to be emerge i3 and i8 models the know how BMW has aquired developing and building those cars will filter into their mainstream models and we'll see chunks of weight off future models.
They just anounced a hook up with Boeing to explore more use of carbon fibre. Boeings Dreamliner is something like 50% carbon.

[HighwayStar]

Harji said:

HighwayStar said:

E38Ross said:

Harji said:

It's too heavy.....

too heavy for what? to make that claim, i guess you must have driven it?

Funny how the weight keeps getting brought up, it's a big car....
The RS6 was up for debate last week, 1900kg... across 6 pages hardly a mention. Mercs too, no feather weights either but doesn't seem to matter as long as there is thunder from within... Ahhh the intricacies and contradictions of PHers

Isn't the RS6 four wheel drive? And Mercs don't really interest me , so you have your answer.

Lol... It's still heavy!

[Harji]

HighwayStar said:

Harji said:

E38Ross said:

Harji said:

It's too heavy.....

too heavy for what? to make that claim, i guess you must have driven it?

"I have not driven therefore I have no opinion" is that you? With todays materials and ethos of efficiceny I though car weight should be coming down or stabalising, but BMW especially seem to not make much effort in this department (for there M cars anyway), sleek and swift is what I associate with BMW, and I have one, have owned 2, and driven about 4.

The current 5 is bigger than the previous 5 and built as that model was the current 5 would be a lot heavier than it is. I suspect with extensive use of carbon in the soon to be emerge i3 and i8 models the know how BMW has aquired developing and building those cars will filter into their mainstream models and we'll see chunks of weight off future models.
They just anounced a hook up with Boeing to explore more use of carbon fibre. Boeings Dreamliner is something like 50% carbon.

One of the best cars ever made is the 5 series and if the Mrs wasn't so tiny that's what I'd have right now, which is why i find the F10 a bloater and disappointing to my eyes. IMO BMW have been a bit slow on the take up of exotic materials, there current weight reduction plans, seems to be getting rid of the six cylinder engines and replacing them with four pots (new 3 series).

The new Audi RS4 Avant has a kerb weight of around 1800kg with a 4wd system and a V8!

[HighwayStar]

Harji said:

One of the best cars ever made is the 5 series and if the Mrs wasn't so tiny that's what I'd have right now, which is why i find the F10 a bloater and disappointing to my eyes. IMO BMW have been a bit slow on the take up of exotic materials, there current weight reduction plans, seems to be getting rid of the six cylinder engines and replacing them with four pots (new 3 series).

The new Audi RS4 Avant has a kerb weight of around 1800kg with a 4wd system and a V8!

Yes I know, I have an Audi myself so all you say is not news to me. I think you'll find the RS6 is nearer 1900kg. Audi have definitely quicker pioneering and getting lighter materials into their production cars, but BMW aren't that far off the pace. There's a lot more aluminium in BMW's, suspension parts especially the M's. that full carbon roof on the Grand Coupe would save a decent amount of weight over a conventional roof. I would imagine the Grand Coupe is a bigger car than RS6 (i'm sure you'll correct me if i'm wrong) so for the size of car it's not so unreasonable a weight especially as the 5 is bigger than the previous car. In the next few years weight will be she'd by all cars big or small.

[RichB]

So are you chaps saying 18/1900kg is heavy or light?

[kambites]

HighwayStar said:

...that full carbon roof on the Grand Coupe would save a decent amount of weight over a conventional roof...

Less than you'd think. The E46 M3 CSL's roof only saved something like 7kg over the steel roof of the standard M3. Yes it's the most important place to reduce weight, but a CF roof is largely a gimmick on a car like this.

[HighwayStar]

RichB said:

So are you chaps saying 18/1900kg is heavy or light?

No two ways about it... 18/1900kg is heavy. The current M5 is bigger than the car it replaces so considering it's a little heavier for a bigger car they've done well. BMW did manage to make the bigger current 3 series lighter than the previous model and they are already saying the M4 (3 series coupe) will be lighter than the E92 M3 (coupe) so as I've said before BMW are on it.

[HighwayStar]

Harji said:

One of the best cars ever made is the 5 series and if the Mrs wasn't so tiny that's what I'd have right now, which is why i find the F10 a bloater and disappointing to my eyes. IMO BMW have been a bit slow on the take up of exotic materials, there current weight reduction plans, seems to be getting rid of the six cylinder engines and replacing them with four pots (new 3 series).

The new Audi RS4 Avant has a kerb weight of around 1800kg with a 4wd system and a V8!

Check out the RS5 convertible... 1950kg! Heavier than the M6 convertible. That puts the M6 Grand Coupés weight into perspective...!!!

Edited by HighwayStar on Friday 14th December 23:16

[BeirutTaxi]

In mass production design, you minimize the quantity of material in every component. Every gram has a cost.

The automotive industry take pennies of cost out of their components. Weight is a major priority too, however there becomes a point when to save weight, the choice of material will be different and usually more expensive, in terms of £/KG and manufacturing cost.

[E38Ross]

why are people comparing to a sodding RS4 or RS5? surely it's an Audi A7 (new RS7) rival for fk sake.

well, a non-RS A7 with just a 6 cylinder engine weighs 1860kgs so the RS model will weigh a bit more than that, with a V8, bigger brakes etc etc etc!!!!!

yet no-one has mentioned this. instead they say it weighs a lot compared to a smaller car. odd.

oh - and regards BMW vs Audi on weight front....M3 weighs around 70-75kgs less than an RS5. so Audi aren't all special lightweight. in fact, the C63 AMG coupe also weighs a similar amount more than the M3 coupe.

so of the "3", the BMW is the lightest for the small sports saloons.

Edited by E38Ross on Saturday 15th December 19:08

[Wills2]

Harji said:

The new Audi RS4 Avant has a kerb weight of around 1800kg with a 4wd system and a V8!

And 1800KG isn't heavy for a 3 series sized car? Sorry but you appear to be contradicting yourself, the grandcoupe is quite a bit bigger than an a A4, it's over 5 metres long and knocking on for 2 metres wide.

[BeirutTaxi]

kambites said:

Less than you'd think. The E46 M3 CSL's roof only saved something like 7kg over the steel roof of the standard M3. Yes it's the most important place to reduce weight, but a CF roof is largely a gimmick on a car like this.

Maybe.. however I suspect it's the addition of small changes that made the M3 four seconds quicker than the RS4 and C63 around the Topgear test track in Spain.

[HighwayStar]

BeirutTaxi said:

kambites said:

Less than you'd think. The E46 M3 CSL's roof only saved something like 7kg over the steel roof of the standard M3. Yes it's the most important place to reduce weight, but a CF roof is largely a gimmick on a car like this.

Maybe.. however I suspect it's the addition of small changes that made the M3 four seconds quicker than the RS4 and C63 around the Topgear test track in Spain.

The M3 is just a better set up, more balance car than the RS4 and C63... Easy to see how many, not me, could be seduced by the sound of the C63. Showed that an abundance of power is a guarantee of total domination. Show's the how the different philosophies of BMW, Audi and Merc play out. Of course on the road with your average Joe behind the wheel things would be a lot closer. That Top Gear episode did show what BMW are all about though.

[northandy]

I imagine this is easy a 100k car. Was in a dealer recently and there was a 640d se (i think) gran coupe, for a mind blowing 69k

[BeirutTaxi]

Harji said:

Isn't the RS6 four wheel drive? And Mercs don't really interest me , so you have your answer.

I don't see your point RE: the 4wd comments. I'm not convinced that it offers more grip than a RWD layout.

You only have to take the lap times of Audi's against BMW's to see this.

Also consider:

4WD Aventador against the Mclaren 12C at the Topgear track - Mclaren is faster

2008 Lamborghini Gallardo LP 560-4 against the 2007 Corvette Z06 at the Nürburgring Nordschleife - Corvette is faster.

RWD M3 vs 4WD RS5 in the wet at the Topgear track - M3 is an older design and faster.

Edited by BeirutTaxi on Sunday 16th December 23:45

[ajprice]

BeirutTaxi said:

Harji said:

Isn't the RS6 four wheel drive? And Mercs don't really interest me , so you have your answer.

I don't see your point RE: the 4wd comments. I'm not convinced that it offers more grip than a RWD layout.

You only have to take the lap times of Audi's against BMW's to see this.

Referring to the weight, I think. A 4WD system is going to be heavier than a RWD.

[BeirutTaxi]

ajprice said:

Referring to the weight, I think. A 4WD system is going to be heavier than a RWD.

^^ My point is that for the extra mass and complexity, I don't think it offers any tangible advantage over a RWD setup, and could therefore be considered unnecessary mass.

Edited by BeirutTaxi on Sunday 16th December 23:57

[Pommygranite]

I despair of what PH has become.

Its like a brothel with free hookers where people complain about the choice.

[E38Ross]

ajprice said:

BeirutTaxi said:

Harji said:

Isn't the RS6 four wheel drive? And Mercs don't really interest me , so you have your answer.

I don't see your point RE: the 4wd comments. I'm not convinced that it offers more grip than a RWD layout.

You only have to take the lap times of Audi's against BMW's to see this.

Referring to the weight, I think. A 4WD system is going to be heavier than a RWD.

That's why audis are heavier than the equivalent BMW in many instances then. What's your point again?

[BeirutTaxi]

Pommygranite said:

I despair of what PH has become.

Its like a brothel with free hookers where people complain about the choice.

Yep.. More performance cars in the world than ever and there is so much moaning

My feeling is that the praise is from people who admire or want a good car, the complaints from those who are far more interested in brand attributes and other pretentious drivel.