RE: Dual-clutch Clio RS: the defence
Discussion
conkerman said:
If the dual clutch works properly, great! Forget all the macho bull, do you want to go back to crash boxes and manual ignition advance?
What a stupid argument. A crash box and manual ignition advance offer no advantages, but a synchromesh box and manual clutch are lighter, more reliable, cheaper and more fun to use than a DSG.I currently have a clio200 cup and in July after three years of happy motoring I will be looking to replace it...I would happily buy another RenaultSport but like so many other people out there get put off by the idea of it being only 5 door and only available with some DSG gearbox....
Obviously the proof will be in the driving, but for me (on paper at least) I'm struggling to want one.
As a comparrison, I test drove a GT86 at the weekend and even though I felt underwhelmed it has potential so that maybe where my money will be going...
Obviously the proof will be in the driving, but for me (on paper at least) I'm struggling to want one.
As a comparrison, I test drove a GT86 at the weekend and even though I felt underwhelmed it has potential so that maybe where my money will be going...
jonm01 said:
Shame on Renault for going forwards and using technology found on such awful cars as the Nissan GTR, McLaren MP4 and Ferrari 458. What are they thinking?
Same type of cars indeed eh?The cars you've mentioned are made to go as fast as possible, the Clio is meant to be a hardcore drivers car; which requires a manual IMO.
jonm01 said:
Shame on Renault for going forwards and using technology found on such awful cars as the Nissan GTR, McLaren MP4 and Ferrari 458. What are they thinking?
I don't think anyone is doubting the technology as such, but working a little rev happy engine with a manual and a clutch pedal is something a number of owners find quite enjoyable.Skylinecrazy said:
Same type of cars indeed eh?
The cars you've mentioned are made to go as fast as possible, the Clio is meant to be a hardcore drivers car; which requires a manual IMO.
Not in my opinion it doesn't. Are you saying a 458 isn't a drivers car? Er?? have you seen any reviews? have you seen any videos? Chris Harris one last week for example...The cars you've mentioned are made to go as fast as possible, the Clio is meant to be a hardcore drivers car; which requires a manual IMO.
M3CSL
360CS
430Scud
what about those?
Porsche don't seemto agree with you either...
I love starting a fast manual car on cold day, and very slowly backing it out of the garage/driveway with a nice blip of revs and a tickle of clutch. I could just drive it normally, but I don't want to, I like the drama! It's like I'm maneuvering a 1970s race car! A bit pathetic? Hey.
When I drive up to a crossroads or a T junction on a summers day in the middle of a fast drive, I like to be able to give the engine a blip before moving off, just to hear it without wind noise!
These are things I just enjoy doing. They don't make me faster, and they probably cause more wear, but I feel happy and connected doing it. I also enjoy just changing gear. It's not a computer game, you should have to pay attention and put in some effort.
The traffic thing? Granted, if you're sitting in traffic jams for an hour plus a day, you want that automatic, fair enough. Personally though, one main reason I'm buying a nice car in the first place is to feel some excitement during these boring moments. I'd still have that manual.
Faster? Who gives a s
t. Want an auto? Buy an auto. I believe mercedes do some nice ones.
When I drive up to a crossroads or a T junction on a summers day in the middle of a fast drive, I like to be able to give the engine a blip before moving off, just to hear it without wind noise!
These are things I just enjoy doing. They don't make me faster, and they probably cause more wear, but I feel happy and connected doing it. I also enjoy just changing gear. It's not a computer game, you should have to pay attention and put in some effort.
The traffic thing? Granted, if you're sitting in traffic jams for an hour plus a day, you want that automatic, fair enough. Personally though, one main reason I'm buying a nice car in the first place is to feel some excitement during these boring moments. I'd still have that manual.
Faster? Who gives a s
t. Want an auto? Buy an auto. I believe mercedes do some nice ones. b0rk said:
Only four years ago a manufacturer could have expected something around 2,000 to 3,000 pa in sales for a hot/warm/performance hatch in the UK now it's close to fifth of that. Models generating between between £3 and £7 million in UK sales are probably not really worthwhile exercises.
You have to wonder how long before manufacturers stop even bothering which would be real shame.
Very interesting. Had no idea the numbers were so low.You have to wonder how long before manufacturers stop even bothering which would be real shame.
That said, although the profits directly attributable to performance models are small, they still look good on billboards and help to sell a lot of bread and butter models.
I seem to remember the EP3 (breadvan) Civic Type-R was a loss leader when it was launched. Even if it didn't make any money for Honda, it still served as a showcase of what the company could do.
Porkie said:
Not in my opinion it doesn't. Are you saying a 458 isn't a drivers car? Er?? have you seen any reviews? have you seen any videos? Chris Harris one last week for example...
M3CSL
360CS
430Scud
what about those?
Porsche don't seemto agree with you either...
Of course them cars a drivers cars... But regardless of what is technologically better there is a group of people (I like to call them enthusiasts) who genuinely prefer working a manual gearbox as apposed to a semiauto paddle jobbie.M3CSL
360CS
430Scud
what about those?
Porsche don't seemto agree with you either...
And there are some cars that are better for it...
A related topic is this http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=100&i=267...
so what is going to happen to everyone's left leg? Are they going to gradually evolve away?
What is this obsession with the gearbox being "so much faster than a manual"? Who f**king cares - it is a ROAD car - does a couple of milliseconds saved on a gear shift really get you to the supermarket any quicker?
Really?
Where is the satusfaction of a perfectly timed shift, a nice blip on the throttle on the downshift.......
you can't even left-foot brake anymore on modern cars..I tried it on the missus' Altea in the recent snow to try and stop the diff spinning and the car went into nanny mode and cut the power - even with TC turned off.
Modern cars are exasperating - which isn't a major problem as I can't afford a new car, but what am I going to buy in 10 years time - there will be nothing left worth owning - especially if the government has another stupid scrappage scheme to rid the roads of interesting old cars...
grrrrr....oh well, rant over...
What is this obsession with the gearbox being "so much faster than a manual"? Who f**king cares - it is a ROAD car - does a couple of milliseconds saved on a gear shift really get you to the supermarket any quicker?
Really?
Where is the satusfaction of a perfectly timed shift, a nice blip on the throttle on the downshift.......
you can't even left-foot brake anymore on modern cars..I tried it on the missus' Altea in the recent snow to try and stop the diff spinning and the car went into nanny mode and cut the power - even with TC turned off.
Modern cars are exasperating - which isn't a major problem as I can't afford a new car, but what am I going to buy in 10 years time - there will be nothing left worth owning - especially if the government has another stupid scrappage scheme to rid the roads of interesting old cars...
grrrrr....oh well, rant over...
PunterCam said:
I love starting a fast manual car on cold day, and very slowly backing it out of the garage/driveway with a nice blip of revs and a tickle of clutch. I could just drive it normally, but I don't want to, I like the drama! It's like I'm maneuvering a 1970s race car! A bit pathetic? Hey.
When I drive up to a crossroads or a T junction on a summers day in the middle of a fast drive, I like to be able to give the engine a blip before moving off, just to hear it without wind noise!
These are things I just enjoy doing. They don't make me faster, and they probably cause more wear, but I feel happy and connected doing it. I also enjoy just changing gear. It's not a computer game, you should have to pay attention and put in some effort.
The traffic thing? Granted, if you're sitting in traffic jams for an hour plus a day, you want that automatic, fair enough. Personally though, one main reason I'm buying a nice car in the first place is to feel some excitement during these boring moments. I'd still have that manual.
Faster? Who gives a st. Want an auto? Buy an auto. I believe mercedes do some nice ones.
When I drive up to a crossroads or a T junction on a summers day in the middle of a fast drive, I like to be able to give the engine a blip before moving off, just to hear it without wind noise!
These are things I just enjoy doing. They don't make me faster, and they probably cause more wear, but I feel happy and connected doing it. I also enjoy just changing gear. It's not a computer game, you should have to pay attention and put in some effort.
The traffic thing? Granted, if you're sitting in traffic jams for an hour plus a day, you want that automatic, fair enough. Personally though, one main reason I'm buying a nice car in the first place is to feel some excitement during these boring moments. I'd still have that manual.
Faster? Who gives a s
t. Want an auto? Buy an auto. I believe mercedes do some nice ones. 
Does anyone else get the feeling that in the yes of the manufacturer's petrolheads are all but extinct? It seems to be frowned upon by a large chunk of society now if you're one of those people who, shock! enjoy driving. It's almost as though they want you to buy new cars, but at the same time use them only if you have a reason to use them not because you enjoy it.
DanielSan said:
Does anyone else get the feeling that in the yes of the manufacturer's petrolheads are all but extinct? It seems to be frowned upon by a large chunk of society now if you're one of those people who, shock! enjoy driving. It's almost as though they want you to buy new cars, but at the same time use them only if you have a reason to use them not because you enjoy it.
Yes, you must be correct. I mean they're obviously building 200bhp Htachbacks which will be avaiable in lairy colours, big brakes, adjustable settings for the auto boxes and Recaro seats for the average joe rather than people who enjoy driving 
And pretty much everyone is going the same way - auto boxes and more driver aids than a V10 F1 car, more doors than a hatchback should ever need. There's no focus on actual driving fun, they're just another trim level. Where's the fun is having 600 different settings for your gearbox ffs? Fun is getting a perfect heel and toe as you slow down for a tight corner, hitting the apex perfectly and getting on the power again hard until the next turn.
DanielSan said:
And pretty much everyone is going the same way - auto boxes and more driver aids than a V10 F1 car, more doors than a hatchback should ever need. There's no focus on actual driving fun, they're just another trim level. Where's the fun is having 600 different settings for your gearbox ffs? Fun is getting a perfect heel and toe as you slow down for a tight corner, hitting the apex perfectly and getting on the power again hard until the next turn.
For you maybe. For me it is a perfectly balanced chassis, excellent braking and stability and being able to upshift/downshift midcorner and have a brilliant powerband of usable power and performance. Heel-toe and left foot braking is of absolutely no interest to me.PunterCam said:
I love starting a fast manual car on cold day, and very slowly backing it out of the garage/driveway with a nice blip of revs and a tickle of clutch. I could just drive it normally, but I don't want to, I like the drama! It's like I'm maneuvering a 1970s race car! A bit pathetic? Hey.
When I drive up to a crossroads or a T junction on a summers day in the middle of a fast drive, I like to be able to give the engine a blip before moving off, just to hear it without wind noise!
These are things I just enjoy doing. They don't make me faster, and they probably cause more wear, but I feel happy and connected doing it. I also enjoy just changing gear. It's not a computer game, you should have to pay attention and put in some effort.
The traffic thing? Granted, if you're sitting in traffic jams for an hour plus a day, you want that automatic, fair enough. Personally though, one main reason I'm buying a nice car in the first place is to feel some excitement during these boring moments. I'd still have that manual.
Faster? Who gives a st. Want an auto? Buy an auto. I believe mercedes do some nice ones.
^When I drive up to a crossroads or a T junction on a summers day in the middle of a fast drive, I like to be able to give the engine a blip before moving off, just to hear it without wind noise!
These are things I just enjoy doing. They don't make me faster, and they probably cause more wear, but I feel happy and connected doing it. I also enjoy just changing gear. It's not a computer game, you should have to pay attention and put in some effort.
The traffic thing? Granted, if you're sitting in traffic jams for an hour plus a day, you want that automatic, fair enough. Personally though, one main reason I'm buying a nice car in the first place is to feel some excitement during these boring moments. I'd still have that manual.
Faster? Who gives a s
t. Want an auto? Buy an auto. I believe mercedes do some nice ones. What this guy said.
Anyone who says the Clio4 RS will be better with an auto because 'It's easier in traffic' bought the wrong car.
It's a ClioRS... you should have gone the 5mile longer back route without the traffic jam.
Butter Face said:
DanielSan said:
Does anyone else get the feeling that in the yes of the manufacturer's petrolheads are all but extinct? It seems to be frowned upon by a large chunk of society now if you're one of those people who, shock! enjoy driving. It's almost as though they want you to buy new cars, but at the same time use them only if you have a reason to use them not because you enjoy it.
Yes, you must be correct. I mean they're obviously building 200bhp Htachbacks which will be avaiable in lairy colours, big brakes, adjustable settings for the auto boxes and Recaro seats for the average joe rather than people who enjoy driving /Pedant
TheRoadWarrior said:
Butter Face said:
DanielSan said:
Does anyone else get the feeling that in the yes of the manufacturer's petrolheads are all but extinct? It seems to be frowned upon by a large chunk of society now if you're one of those people who, shock! enjoy driving. It's almost as though they want you to buy new cars, but at the same time use them only if you have a reason to use them not because you enjoy it.
Yes, you must be correct. I mean they're obviously building 200bhp Htachbacks which will be avaiable in lairy colours, big brakes, adjustable settings for the auto boxes and Recaro seats for the average joe rather than people who enjoy driving /Pedant
[/Pedant]
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