RE: BMW 130i: PH Carpool
Discussion
DoubleSix said:
This guy has got to be trolling - no one could be this blinkered surely...
It was me that said I had an S3 for the record though, no fun wringing out that whiny four pot, just sounded strained at the top end. Of course you can drive it just under it's limits and make very rapid progress but that became very dull too, push a bit more and yep you'll be getting understeer and front tyre scrub - one for the traffic light heros. Just doesn't compare to the deep thrum of the BMW straight six and RWD adjustability.
Nothings gonna tell him though, he knows best!
I don't see what this has to do with traffic light heros. Just another inane statement. In any driving environment (and particularly at the track) you have to drive a car at or just under its limit to keep it controlled. Go over the limit and you have to correct for under or oversteer, which means you made a mistake as a driver. Oversteer is particularly difficult to correct for. That understeer and tire scrub you seem to encounter so often is the car telling you you have it its tractive limits, either through driving error (most likely in the case of an amateur) or purposely. The benefit of AWD, again, is that tractive limits are higher and slip angles smaller. If you are encountering heavy understeer on a vehicle, you need to work on learning to drive that particular chassis. It really is that simple.It was me that said I had an S3 for the record though, no fun wringing out that whiny four pot, just sounded strained at the top end. Of course you can drive it just under it's limits and make very rapid progress but that became very dull too, push a bit more and yep you'll be getting understeer and front tyre scrub - one for the traffic light heros. Just doesn't compare to the deep thrum of the BMW straight six and RWD adjustability.
Nothings gonna tell him though, he knows best!
I think you're judging me by your own standards. There really is nothing wrong with being in your early 20's, I wish I was. It was a simple and honest question to try and understand where you're coming from, from an automotive POV. The answer is pretty clear, if there was any doubt.
Remember, you're the one who has been less than complimentary and goes defensive on many people who may happen to disagree with your views, which is not a big deal tbh.
Anyway, will you make it on 27/10 at the Ring ? Genuine offer to meet up and have a chat about cars and maybe a drive or 2 ?
Remember, you're the one who has been less than complimentary and goes defensive on many people who may happen to disagree with your views, which is not a big deal tbh.
Anyway, will you make it on 27/10 at the Ring ? Genuine offer to meet up and have a chat about cars and maybe a drive or 2 ?
Edited by nickfrog on Thursday 26th September 10:58
scherzkeks said:
nickfrog said:
I assume you are in your early 20's?
The depth and quality of your commentary never ceases to impress. I see we have resorted to full as hominem mode now (the last resort of those over their heads), so the discussion seems to be rather pointless. Mike Roberts said:
SportAuto Nurburgring lap times:
Old gen:
130i 8:35
Audi S3 8L 8:41
Golf R32 8:49
New gen:
Golf R 8:34
M135i 8:18
RS3 8:20
1M 8:15
No listing for an 8P S3, but the Golf R is essentially the same car.
Did the OP list his times at the ring? I would be interested to see the difference, betting its damn close if not quicker than the RS3.Old gen:
130i 8:35
Audi S3 8L 8:41
Golf R32 8:49
New gen:
Golf R 8:34
M135i 8:18
RS3 8:20
1M 8:15
No listing for an 8P S3, but the Golf R is essentially the same car.
Anyway, it puts the Audi discussion to bed at least!
Mike Roberts said:
SportAuto Nurburgring lap times:
No listing for an 8P S3, but the Golf R is essentially the same car.
How dare you! Aren't you aware that the Audi uses marginally different suspension components and is therefore completely different and thus superior? No listing for an 8P S3, but the Golf R is essentially the same car.
The 130i is a cracking little car (superior in every way as a drivers car to the S3) and credit to this guy for making it into a such a polished performer, subtle modifications and track focus.
yonex said:
Mike Roberts said:
SportAuto Nurburgring lap times:
blah
No listing for an 8P S3, but the Golf R is essentially the same car.
Did the OP list his times at the ring? I would be interested to see the difference, betting its damn close if not quicker than the RS3.blah
No listing for an 8P S3, but the Golf R is essentially the same car.
Anyway, it puts the Audi discussion to bed at least!
The diff and lack of runflats will have bought him a chunk of time, never mind the rest.
nickfrog said:
DoubleSix said:
I suspect so, reminds me a bit of myself at that age to be perfectly honest!
Me too, and I had an S3 ! 
Still, you live and learn, a few years in a Cayman taught me what dynamics were really all about.
Mike Roberts said:
They're full laps, so unless he was on a track day, best he's got is a BtG (which is a rough guess of 30 secs faster). Also done by HvS and Rohrl, so he'll be doing well to get near their times!
The diff and lack of runflats will have bought him a chunk of time, never mind the rest.
Agreed. I'd imagine the LSD better dampers etc with really effective brakes would bring some serious gains. I can't stop looking at the classifieds now :/ The diff and lack of runflats will have bought him a chunk of time, never mind the rest.
Mike Roberts said:
SportAuto Nurburgring lap times:
Old gen:
130i 8:35
Audi S3 8L 8:41
Golf R32 8:49
New gen:
Golf R 8:34
M135i 8:18
RS3 8:20
1M 8:15
No listing for an 8P S3, but the Golf R is essentially the same car.
Hm, can't find that 130i time on Sport Auto's site. I did find this little list though, which appears to be your source and has no references: http://forums.evolutionm.net/other-cars-motorcycle...Old gen:
130i 8:35
Audi S3 8L 8:41
Golf R32 8:49
New gen:
Golf R 8:34
M135i 8:18
RS3 8:20
1M 8:15
No listing for an 8P S3, but the Golf R is essentially the same car.
According to (what appears to be) your source, and curiously enough, the more powerful 135i runs considerably slower than the 130i at 8:39. Odd, that. Also the ancient MK4 R32 runs a 8:32, faster than the new Golf R, 130i, and 135i.
Almost makes one question whether these times are legit, doesn't it? They certainly aren't (as you claim) all from Sport Auto.
Edited by scherzkeks on Thursday 26th September 13:14
DoubleSix said:
Actually I think Nickfrog has demonstrated a depth of knowledge that leaves you splashing around in the shallow end. You've ignored many salient points made about driving a car just over the limit to, by definition, get the very most from the chassis. In addition, you keep making 'ad hominem' statements of your own about peoples driving experience, which is a bit silly round these parts.
Do you know what an ad-hominem is? It would appear not. I've said that if you are experiencing understeer or oversteer that you, the driver, are to blame. You have exceeded the chassis's limit, which is quite difficult to do on most modern performance vehicles sans driver error or deliberate hamfisting.scherzkeks said:
Mike Roberts said:
SportAuto Nurburgring lap times:
Old gen:
130i 8:35
Audi S3 8L 8:41
Golf R32 8:49
New gen:
Golf R 8:34
M135i 8:18
RS3 8:20
1M 8:15
No listing for an 8P S3, but the Golf R is essentially the same car.
Hm, can't find that 130i time on Sport Auto's site. I did find this little list though, which appears to be your source and has no references: http://forums.evolutionm.net/other-cars-motorcycle...Old gen:
130i 8:35
Audi S3 8L 8:41
Golf R32 8:49
New gen:
Golf R 8:34
M135i 8:18
RS3 8:20
1M 8:15
No listing for an 8P S3, but the Golf R is essentially the same car.
According to (what appears to be) your source, and curiously enough, the more powerful 135i runs considerably slower than the 130i at 8:39. Odd, that. Also the ancient MK4 R32 runs a 8:32, faster than the new Golf R, 130i, and 135i.
Almost makes one question whether these times are legit, doesn't it? They certainly aren't (as you claim) all from Sport Auto.
8:35 --- 144.00 km/h - BMW 130i, 258 PS/1350 kg (Road & Track)
The rest of the times are from SportAuto's website here:
http://www.sportauto.de/rundenzeiten-nuerburgring-...
So, let's remove the 130i time and concentrate on all the others from the same source. The rest of the RWD vs AWD comparisons knock your argument kinda out of the park.
If you'd like to dispute any of that, please feel free to contact SportAuto and tell them their drivers are s
t, and you could do it better. NB - couldn't find a 135i or MKIV R32, there's the 335i at 8:26 if that helps??
Edited by Mike Roberts on Thursday 26th September 14:03
scherzkeks said:
DoubleSix said:
Actually I think Nickfrog has demonstrated a depth of knowledge that leaves you splashing around in the shallow end. You've ignored many salient points made about driving a car just over the limit to, by definition, get the very most from the chassis. In addition, you keep making 'ad hominem' statements of your own about peoples driving experience, which is a bit silly round these parts.
Do you know what an ad-hominem is? It would appear not. I've said that if you are experiencing understeer or oversteer that you, the driver, are to blame. You have exceeded the chassis's limit, which is quite difficult to do on most modern performance vehicles sans driver error or deliberate hamfisting.
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