Why do you hate the electric car

[Ali Chappussy]

Coz it can only go for about 75 mil.................phut.

[anonymous-user]

odyssey2200 said:

So Vauxhall says not, buy you know better?

Not sure if you're talking to me, but yes i do know better. I "reverse engineered" the car for a major UK OEM in 2011........... ;-)

[odyssey2200]

M4CK 1 said:

My issue with EV's is not the principle of having one as a day to day car with a toy for the weekend but the bullst that we would be saving the world with our 0 emissions cars.
IMO these will create more pollution. To produce any battery a lot of power is required. Where are the batteries mainly made in China. China uses millions of tonnes of coal to produce electricity.
Then to power your EV you need to connect to the mains. Again we already have issues with producing enough electricity to power the country and prices of fuel will go up again and c02 increase again to keep up with demand.
Then when these batteries get to the end of their life where do they go in a tip. Pay for them to go away and get recycled , doubt it.
The idea of EV cars as 0 emissions car is fundamentally flawed idea and is more likely to create more pollution.

Sorry you're going have to think of a better idea.

IIRC the raw materials are mined in Canada, Shipped to CHina for refining, then the Batteries are shipped to the car manufacturers for installation before the car is shipped to the country in which it is to be sold.

One survey suggested that the whole live carbon footprint of a Prius was on a par with a Hummer H2.

yet one is considered to be saving the planet while the other is killing it

[AnotherClarkey]

odyssey2200 said:

So Vauxhall says not, buy you know better?

Chevvy site says

Named 2012 Car of the Year, Volt is neither a hybrid nor a battery electric vehicle. It’s a pioneering Extended Range Electric Vehicle (or E-REV). Powered electrically 100% of the time, Volt’s Voltec® electric drive unit keeps going when its lithium-ion battery is depleted, thanks to its on-board petrol powered generator, extending its range to over 300 miles. And when the generator activates, you probably wouldn’t even notice.

This was the subject of considerable frothing in the media when it emerged that the ICE can, indeed, be mechanically linked to the road wheels. GM are for some reason committed to marketing this as a 'range extended electric vehicle' in some way distinct from a 'plug in hybrid' which is what it actually is.

It is a shame becaue there is some very clever engineering in the Volt/Ampera drivetrain which GM should be shouting about rather than trying to pretend it doesn't exist. I suppose they are trying to distance it from the Prius Plug-In which works in a not entirely dissimilar way and can also not transmit ICE torque to the road without some contribution from the electric motor(s).

[Gary C]

I would not mind an electic sports car for the commute to work if we had charging sockets in the carpark and we could buy a charge at what is costs us to make it.

Then I could claim my commute was as essentially as CO2 free as cycling and would be quite cheap with no duty.

However, they dont have enough range at present for them to be the only car you have and they are not as green as they make out, from the materials they use to the fossil fuel burnt to charge.

And

They tend to be driven at the moment by pious knobs.

[M4CK 1]

Battery EV cars in my opinion are more than likely going to produce more CO2 than petrol in an indirect way with battery acid dumps in South Africa creating an environmental nightmare.
Sorry more I think about it the more I think manufacturers and government and EU need to have a rethink.

[Devil2575]

odyssey2200 said:

One survey suggested that the whole live carbon footprint of a Prius was on a par with a Hummer H2.

And the reason you chose to believe that survey was?

AFAIK it's been widely debunked now anyway.

http://www.pacinst.org/publication/hummer-versus-p...

Edited by Devil2575 on Friday 13th December 16:20

[Devil2575]

M4CK 1 said:

Battery EV cars in my opinion are more than likely going to produce more CO2 than petrol in an indirect way with battery acid dumps in South Africa creating an environmental nightmare.
Sorry more I think about it the more I think manufacturers and government and EU need to have a rethink.

With all due respect, what is your opinion based on? What detailed data have you seen to support your view?

A rethink? Why? based on what you think is more than likely or what can be proved with data?

[odyssey2200]

Devil2575 said:

And the reason you chose to believe that survey was?

AFAIK it's been widely debunked now anyway.

I didn't choose to believe it, just as I didn't choose to believe all the EV hype and bluster.

Why do you choose to believe it was debunked?

[anonymous-user]

M4CK 1 said:

with battery acid dumps in South Africa creating an environmental nightmare.

With What you say??

A) modern batteries used in EVs do not contain "acid"

and

B) No one is going to be "throwing away" old EV batteries. ~200kg of relatively easily to recycle valuable materials will see to that!

[Devil2575]

odyssey2200 said:

Devil2575 said:

And the reason you chose to believe that survey was?

AFAIK it's been widely debunked now anyway.

I didn't choose to believe it, just as I didn't choose to believe all the EV hype and bluster.

Why do you choose to believe it was debunked?

Because it was.

http://www.pacinst.org/publication/hummer-versus-p...

IIRC the original author has even admitted it was flawed.

[odyssey2200]

Devil2575 said:

odyssey2200 said:

Devil2575 said:

And the reason you chose to believe that survey was?

AFAIK it's been widely debunked now anyway.

I didn't choose to believe it, just as I didn't choose to believe all the EV hype and bluster.

Why do you choose to believe it was debunked?

Because it was.

http://www.pacinst.org/publication/hummer-versus-p...

IIRC the original author has even admitted it was flawed.

OK

but Prius is nowhere near as green as it is portrayed.

[anonymous-user]

odyssey2200 said:

Devil2575 said:

And the reason you chose to believe that survey was?

AFAIK it's been widely debunked now anyway.

I didn't choose to believe it, just as I didn't choose to believe all the EV hype and bluster.

Why do you choose to believe it was debunked?

Unfortunately the "EV batteries are not green" thing is really a left over "clarksonism". Yes, the raw materials for EV batteries are sourced for all around the world, and require transport to different locations during their production.

However, take a Jaguar manufactured in the West Midlands. Where do you think the steel and alluminium for it's manufacture come from? Or the Nickle and Chromium, or the complex hydrocarbons used in all it's plastics, or the "rubber" for it's tyres etc etc etc.

No car is "green".

But EV's are not "less green" than ICEVs.


And as they use consume less energy during their lifetime, the overall energy saving is positive.


I.E it would be better to NOT buy a new car at all, and just use the one you have, but if you have to buy a new car, an EV is less polluting than an ICEV.

[AnotherClarkey]

odyssey2200 said:

OK

but Prius is nowhere near as green as it is portrayed.

But the Prius isn't an electric car....

[coppice]

Has the pistonhead demographic really not moved on from the lazy stereotyping of Prius and other hybrid drivers as 'pious' ? Yes , yes , we should all drive V8s , global warning is a conspiracy, police are all corrupt , country going to the dogs etc. Easy this stereotyping isn't it ? But soo lazy....

[amstrange1]

Max_Torque said:

Not sure if you're talking to me, but yes i do know better. I "reverse engineered" the car for a major UK OEM in 2011........... ;-)

You work for Integral Powertrain by any chance?

[McWigglebum4th]

Woo hoo



http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

I hope it will be peaceful

[anonymous-user]

And try this with your ICEV:

lots of leaves make buildings more efficient


;-)

[Muzzer79]

odyssey2200 said:

Devil2575 said:

odyssey2200 said:

So many pro EV posters state the same.
When will it be ready?
What sudden miracle is going to happen that will make it viable?

a 400 mile EV may never come, without the missing miraculous leap in technology that keeps getting referred to, and even if it did , how long would the recharge time be, or are we dependant on another miracle for that as well?
....

I'm sorry but what the fk are you smoking?

What miracles?

20 years ago smart phones didn't exisit because the technology required had not been developed. It wasn't a miracle that made smart phones possible.

In 1950 there were no supersonic aircraft in military service. By 1955 there were several. It wasn't a miracle that made it possible.

If you'd have ask someone not involved in the IT industry 30 years ago if they could imagine how we'd develop the technology to store 1TB of data on something you could fit in your pocket with no moving parts they'd probably have thought that a miracle would be required.

You could say the same for sequencing the human genome.

The notion of miracles being required is just bks.

The rate at which technology is advancing over the course of a few years these days is amazing, let alone a decade.

and no one could have predicted those advances

EV advocates use these pending advances to justify their suitability now, with absolutely no clue as to when, or indeed IF, these advances will occur.

WHEN an EV is as good, convenient and as flexible as an ICE then I will reassess my opinion.
Until then they are an over expensive, under performing offering which is totally unsuitable.

Why pay more for less?

One can't say for sure that an EV will eventually come along that will have the range and usability of a petrol car, but it's a fairly safe bet that with the amount being invested in EV technology and the fact that we have vehicles now that can do a quarter or even half of that range it won't be long before it improves.

I am not a greenie. I don't support Greenpeace, eat flowers or sit in trees to prevent them being cut down. I don't even know if I agree with global warming as a concept.

However, I see the tech in EVs and can see where it's come from and where it's going.

Would I buy one now? Like you I think - hell no. They aren't far enough along and are far too expensive.
But it's not science fiction to presume that it won't be long before they are viable for the everyday family and with mass usability comes affordability.

Suitable for every journey? Possibly not, but as I also said - I don't think petrol will die.

[amancalledrob]

At the moment I drive a 15yo Fiesta I was given for free (I have a bike for thrills) but when the car eventually has to go I can see it being perfectly practical for me to have an EV, provided I'm not living in a terraced house by then, which I am now. For me, a place to charge the car is the biggest drawback. I only live a mile from work so I walk. The car's only for going to Sainsbury's and the occasional day out, so I really feel that for many people the EV is already 'of age'.

Granted if you've got to drive more than say, 250 miles a day then I guess fossil fuel wins the day