RE: Lotus Evora GT430 - official!
Discussion
saaby93 said:
Tuna said:
Desert Dragon said:
Sorry last time I was at the factory Lotus were still making the Esprit GT3! In fact it had just been released and I was allowed to take it for a drive. On that visit the tubs were being made out of layers of fibre glass put in what looks like a very wide bath tub and layered before a bonding solution was injected into it to make it set. Apologies if that chassis construction methodology has changed. I'm pleased it has as the old tubs go out of shape after a while!
I didn't think the old Esprit bodies were structural - everything sat on their backbone box chassis, with a similar arrangement in the earlier Europa and Excel?I'd recommend the factory tour - a lot has changed with the company, and the new machines are good to sit in. You can also pop over the road to the Classic Lotus site, which manages all of their historic race machines and will happily show you round them.
Wasnt the tub the thing containing passengers fixed to that
The GT3 was released over twenty years ago and was accepted to be old tech then. Imagine expecting manufacturing methods to have remained unchanged since 1996 and then having an opinion based on that belief. How quaint.
Good news that the UK allocation has been snapped up already. I wonder if Lotus do know more than an internet forum?
Desert Dragon said:
Stuff about engine origins, Fibreglass tubs and none structural bodywork weight.
Look whatever anyone says on here the basic fact is that Lotus has been limping on forever. It needs investment on the back of a decent business plan. Easier said than done as no-one in the UK since the second world war has made a profit making planes, trains and automobiles other than McLaren with their road cars. Truth is if people hadn't stumped up £1m or whatever it was for the P1 they wouldn't be profitable in that particular year - and I suspect on a cashflow basis investment into McLaren road cars has been disastrous for investors. If there's a global dip in next few years I wouldn't want to own a sports car manufacturer other than Porsche and even they will have to batten down the hatches with whats going on at VW...
I loved the engine in my 996 but there was always the spectre of catastrophe hanging over it (none metzger). The supercharged engine in the Evora is very effective, it may lack a little character (in my opinion) but it makes for a very effective car and has good reliability. It's probably better suited at this price point than the 996/997 gen1 was.Look whatever anyone says on here the basic fact is that Lotus has been limping on forever. It needs investment on the back of a decent business plan. Easier said than done as no-one in the UK since the second world war has made a profit making planes, trains and automobiles other than McLaren with their road cars. Truth is if people hadn't stumped up £1m or whatever it was for the P1 they wouldn't be profitable in that particular year - and I suspect on a cashflow basis investment into McLaren road cars has been disastrous for investors. If there's a global dip in next few years I wouldn't want to own a sports car manufacturer other than Porsche and even they will have to batten down the hatches with whats going on at VW...
Ref the body panels, all manufacturers of sports cars play with aluminum and composites for marginal returns on weight. It's normal.
A bit of a odd phenomena about recent down turns is that the premium and specialist car brands have seen far less sales decline than the mainstream brands, I don't have the figures and I may be incorrect, but I'm fairly sure this is the case.
Finally the future. I think you underestimate Lotus and Geely. Firstly, Lotus is in better shape than it has been for many years. The cars may no longer appeal to your memories of them in the 70s or 80s, but they are selling and they are making cars that are generally well regarded. Add to this Geely, they seem very astute and have certainly managed to develop Volvo without abandoning Volvos core principles. They will bring resources and finance and I'm sure some very sharp strategic planning to help Lotus be all that it can be. If that means using things like the T8 power train from XC90, great as developing dedicated hybrid power train is stupidly expensive.
I don't quite understand your view point, but you're entitled to your opinion. I do really think the prospects at Lotus are much better than you imagine.
Hungrymc said:
Finally the future. I think you underestimate Lotus and Geely. Firstly, Lotus is in better shape than it has been for many years. The cars may no longer appeal to your memories of them in the 70s or 80s, but they are selling and they are making cars that are generally well regarded. Add to this Geely, they seem very astute and have certainly managed to develop Volvo without abandoning Volvos core principles. They will bring resources and finance and I'm sure some very sharp strategic planning to help Lotus be all that it can be. If that means using things like the T8 power train from XC90, great as developing dedicated hybrid power train is stupidly expensive.
This is the really important bit isn't it? JMG isn't going anywhere any time soon (I hope!), he's proven that he is very good at making more profit while not abandoning any of the core things that make Lotus, Lotus. I think if he gets an injection of cash from Geely, which he probably will, it will be better used than many of the previous CEOs of Lotus.
The future is really, realistically bright at Lotus for the first time in a while
Desert Dragon said:
Sorry last time I was at the factory Lotus were still making the Esprit GT3! In fact it had just been released and I was allowed to take it for a drive. On that visit the tubs were being made out of layers of fibre glass put in what looks like a very wide bath tub and layered before a bonding solution was injected into it to make it set. Apologies if that chassis construction methodology has changed. I'm pleased it has as the old tubs go out of shape after a while!
Yes the Macca engine is a development of the Nissan GT1 engine. As is the 996/997.1 GT/Turbo engine from the Porsche 911 GT1. Both do not sound very nice with a couple of turbos strapped on but come on chaps a Toyota Camry engine! Really?!
The exterior carbon on the Lotus or the Macca or Porsche etc hardly reduces weight in a meaningful way for a road car. Wet these are 1400kg cars! Even if the carbon saved 30kgs its pointless in car weighing 1400kgs lol. Its mostly decorative
The tub on the esprit is a bit different to that of the Evora (and McLaren, and the Alfa 4C) as supplements a box section chassis which runs the length of the cars. The suspension attaches to that steel box section. The tub on the Evora (and Mc and 4C) is the bulk of the chassis and there are subframes for and aft which hold the front and rear structures of the car (including suspension and engine).Yes the Macca engine is a development of the Nissan GT1 engine. As is the 996/997.1 GT/Turbo engine from the Porsche 911 GT1. Both do not sound very nice with a couple of turbos strapped on but come on chaps a Toyota Camry engine! Really?!
The exterior carbon on the Lotus or the Macca or Porsche etc hardly reduces weight in a meaningful way for a road car. Wet these are 1400kg cars! Even if the carbon saved 30kgs its pointless in car weighing 1400kgs lol. Its mostly decorative
Regarding the use of carbon fibre for body panels, with prepreg CF, big autoclaves etc it can work out cheaper for lower volumes.
DaveGB said:
Appears Lotus got the pricing spot on, as UK allocation has sold out in 24 hrs.
Good news for Lotus
For those who think it was too expensive, go test drive a 400. 1 year old cars at £60k represent great value for money and wait till you hear that exhaust
An absolutely droolworthy car.Good news for Lotus
For those who think it was too expensive, go test drive a 400. 1 year old cars at £60k represent great value for money and wait till you hear that exhaust
People on here seem to forget that the vast majority of £100k+ cars have massive depreciation. Buying one of these Evoras takes no more 'courage' than brand new mainstream Astons, Porsches, Mercedes, Audi, McLarens etc in the £100k+ range. People think of the GT3 Porsches and maybe 650LT McLaren and somehow assume expensive cars shouldn't depreciate much, but there have been very few exceptions to the MASSIVE DEPRECIATION rule...
Again, comparison in the UK to GT Porsche retail price is completely pointless, since the Porsches are literally unobtainable for someone walking into a Porsche showroom today. The timing of the 430's launch seems to fit well with coming just after the 911 GT3 - those are all sold out and will trade at a big premium, meaning the 430 still looks OK value at its price.
DonkeyApple said:
True, but walk in tomorrow and you'll be able to buy the new Lotus Evora GT431. Which we all know will be even better as it's one higher.
Why would they stop developing and pushing limited edition cars further? This 430 is quite a change from the 410 (which I guess is the Evora comparison you're making). In fact if the next one shows a similar jump in price it will be north of £150k. I can't see that, more special editions around the 100k mark maybe more likely? Who knows.I might be missing something but I really don't think Lotus are trying anything odd here. Why would they be obligated to stop development?
Hungrymc said:
I loved the engine in my 996 but there was always the spectre of catastrophe hanging over it (none metzger). The supercharged engine in the Evora is very effective, it may lack a little character (in my opinion) but it makes for a very effective car and has good reliability. It's probably better suited at this price point than the 996/997 gen1 was.
Ref the body panels, all manufacturers of sports cars play with aluminum and composites for marginal returns on weight. It's normal.
A bit of a odd phenomena about recent down turns is that the premium and specialist car brands have seen far less sales decline than the mainstream brands, I don't have the figures and I may be incorrect, but I'm fairly sure this is the case.
Finally the future. I think you underestimate Lotus and Geely. Firstly, Lotus is in better shape than it has been for many years. The cars may no longer appeal to your memories of them in the 70s or 80s, but they are selling and they are making cars that are generally well regarded. Add to this Geely, they seem very astute and have certainly managed to develop Volvo without abandoning Volvos core principles. They will bring resources and finance and I'm sure some very sharp strategic planning to help Lotus be all that it can be. If that means using things like the T8 power train from XC90, great as developing dedicated hybrid power train is stupidly expensive.
I don't quite understand your view point, but you're entitled to your opinion. I do really think the prospects at Lotus are much better than you imagine.
The V6 in the lotus has come along great since the 270hp days it's now packing 380 to 400 hp + with a noise to match. Their is nothing wrong with using a Toyota engine in my view as long as it makes the right noise and power what's not to like ?? As an added bonus should you blow up the engine you can likely buy a replacement direct from Toyota for a reasonable sum. I think the Evora represents a great sports car buy on the second hand market andLotus residuals over the longer term are extremely goodRef the body panels, all manufacturers of sports cars play with aluminum and composites for marginal returns on weight. It's normal.
A bit of a odd phenomena about recent down turns is that the premium and specialist car brands have seen far less sales decline than the mainstream brands, I don't have the figures and I may be incorrect, but I'm fairly sure this is the case.
Finally the future. I think you underestimate Lotus and Geely. Firstly, Lotus is in better shape than it has been for many years. The cars may no longer appeal to your memories of them in the 70s or 80s, but they are selling and they are making cars that are generally well regarded. Add to this Geely, they seem very astute and have certainly managed to develop Volvo without abandoning Volvos core principles. They will bring resources and finance and I'm sure some very sharp strategic planning to help Lotus be all that it can be. If that means using things like the T8 power train from XC90, great as developing dedicated hybrid power train is stupidly expensive.
I don't quite understand your view point, but you're entitled to your opinion. I do really think the prospects at Lotus are much better than you imagine.
Hungrymc said:
DonkeyApple said:
True, but walk in tomorrow and you'll be able to buy the new Lotus Evora GT431. Which we all know will be even better as it's one higher.
Why would they stop developing and pushing limited edition cars further? This 430 is quite a change from the 410 (which I guess is the Evora comparison you're making). In fact if the next one shows a similar jump in price it will be north of £150k. I can't see that, more special editions around the 100k mark maybe more likely? Who knows.I might be missing something but I really don't think Lotus are trying anything odd here. Why would they be obligated to stop development?
All I was referring to is that while the next limited edition Porsche is probably at least a year or so away, Lotus will have one much sooner so if you missed out on this one the next one is only a short wait.
Lovely looking car but i wonder how well it will compare with the big boys at that price. Lotus although way better than they were still have some quality gremlins. Just have a look at some of James Martins youtube vids, he is an avid Lotus fan but be has his issues with them.
Never seem to see many lap times for Lotus either, i wonder how this will compare with a GT3 on the green hell....
Never seem to see many lap times for Lotus either, i wonder how this will compare with a GT3 on the green hell....
As much as I am the worlds greatest Lotus fan as my friends constantly remind me, I cannot see the 430 keeping up with a 991 GT3. I could see it matching it or perhaps marginally outdoing it round the corners, but in a straight line, no way. It does have loads of Aero though so it will be very quick through high speed corners, or should be. They do handle fantastically and it is a lovely car and not unreasonably priced given the low volume and with some very expensive components.
There have been some moronic comments on this post!
There have been some moronic comments on this post!
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