RE: Range Rover Velar: Review
Discussion
NomduJour said:
Ares said:
Because finance deals are so cheap, broker discounts are better than you can get, and you can make your capital work far far better.
I've just been through the process. Staggering how much you can save, and have far greater peace of mind.
So you can beat the system? Amazing, you must be richer than Soros, Croesus and Bill Gates combined.I've just been through the process. Staggering how much you can save, and have far greater peace of mind.
RDMcG said:
looks awful.
Err, is that a Cayenne you own? That's essentially the same sort of fake-SUV (with worse off-road ability in current standard form), but it's better because it looks horrible?Ares said:
my investments over the last 3 years have risen by 20-25%
Show me where I can get a guaranteed 8%+ annual return at the moment and I might consider the never-never.NomduJour said:
RDMcG said:
looks awful.
Err, is that a Cayenne you own? That's essentially the same sort of fake-SUV (with worse off-road ability in current standard form), but it's better because it looks horrible?Cayenne has a 7000 lb towing capacity which I use very frequently towing other cars, full low range etc. It is indeed ugly but very practical for what I need. Solid in deep winter and I will drive it into the ground - 220,000 km and counting. It is surprisingly capable off road, though not like my Wrangler obviously and the downside is that ripping parts off it in a canyon is not cheap...tore the rocker panels off. I simply can't get the Velar sloping roof thing on what is presumably meant to be practical.
I have the same thing about the X6 type vehicles. Next get Cayenne will likely have one of these excrescences available too, but I will pick up the SUV version and keep the current one for dog- and car-hauling till it finally expires. They have long lives though if serviced properly. I have an neighbour with 400,000km on hers.
Still, to each his own.
RDMcG said:
Cayenne has a 7000 lb towing capacity which I use very frequently towing other cars, full low range etc. ... It is surprisingly capable off road
Ah, so original Cayenne if it has low range - agree they are more useful than the current one. Off-road ability is an irrelevance for 99% of customers that only LR has to persevere with, SUV fashion is all about image and driving position. I wouldn't group the Velar's looks with the X4/X6/GLC/GLE Coupe stuff - they are all vile.RammyMP said:
Earthdweller said:
My neighbour has a 66 plate disco sport .. lovely looking thing in HSE spec
However, it is forever back in the garage for all sorts of different reasons
He has had everything from Range Rovers to evoques as loan cars
I reckon it must have been off the road for at least 2 months since November
My X3 however in 2 1/2 years hasn't had one single day off the road other than servicing
And that's why I'd never buy another LR. However, it is forever back in the garage for all sorts of different reasons
He has had everything from Range Rovers to evoques as loan cars
I reckon it must have been off the road for at least 2 months since November
My X3 however in 2 1/2 years hasn't had one single day off the road other than servicing
I like the product, but they need to provide premium servicing if they are seeking to offer a premium product
Tin Hat said:
We took delivery of our disco sport in March '15, it was one of the first batch and so I felt that teething problems were inevitable- Sure enough, the heater failed and there was a recall with the rear brakes which were replaced FoC. Land Rover did not quibble ( quite right too ) but our local dealer is overwhelmed-It feels like a UN rice drop near their premises. The next nearest dealer has been terrible as well, it is a lot of aggro booking anything in and the whole experience is more Aldi than Waitrose.
I like the product, but they need to provide premium servicing if they are seeking to offer a premium product
Yes, I've had the misfortune of dropping off and picking up a few times, now we just tell them to come and collect it, it's less stressful! The only problem is that they often forget to come and get it!I like the product, but they need to provide premium servicing if they are seeking to offer a premium product
Edited by RammyMP on Wednesday 26th July 18:35
NomduJour said:
RDMcG said:
looks awful.
Err, is that a Cayenne you own? That's essentially the same sort of fake-SUV (with worse off-road ability in current standard form), but it's better because it looks horrible?Ares said:
my investments over the last 3 years have risen by 20-25%
Show me where I can get a guaranteed 8%+ annual return at the moment and I might consider the never-never.
Ares said:
forest172 said:
And pay about £10k interest over 36 months on the PCP deal?
One of the brokers I used to source my Alfa offered me a 3.0 V6 HSE RRS for £552/mth, £1,600 upfront. 10,000miles but over 4 years.That means if would cost me just under £28,000, including RFL which is now £450/yr, to have the car for 4 years. From memory, the car was c£65,000 list price.
If I'd matched your £8,000 discount, that would have been £57,000. I would have to be certain the car would only lose £28,000 (50%) in 4 years. Thats ambitious. Add in the RFL, and it would need to lose only £26,000 over 4 years. Do you think your car would be worth at least £31,000 after four years?
....and thats before the return you could have if you invested your £57,000.
Cross-posted from another thread, my current and incoming car:
I currently have a 640d GC. Bought brand new, it costs me £561/mth and I put £4,000 down. This was on a 4 year PCP (12k/yr - currently 3yrs 3 months in). The current settlement figure is £22k and the car is worth somewhere between £25-27k.
That means, to date, it has cost me just under £26k for 39 months. If I sell it tomorrow, I'll get £3-5k 'back'.
If I'd bought it brand new, and sold it tomorrow, it would have dropped a lot more than £26k in that 3yrs 3 months, let alone the net £21-23k.
It's also been risk free, and a fixed outgoing.
My next car is being leased. £65k Alfa Quadrifoglio, again over 4 yrs, but at 15,000 per year. £572/mth, £1,700 upfront, and includes RFL for the duration.
Over the 4 years, 60,000 miles it will cost me £29,156. Even with the best deals available, a £65k Alfa will easily lose £29k (44%) of it's value over 4 years and 60,000. And that's before you factor in £1800 of RFL that the private buyer will also have to pay for.
On top of all of those, my investments over the last 3 years have risen by 20-25%. So tell me again why I would tie my capital up in a car for no commercial reason...and with significant Opportunity Cost??
The Moose said:
Ares said:
forest172 said:
And pay about £10k interest over 36 months on the PCP deal?
One of the brokers I used to source my Alfa offered me a 3.0 V6 HSE RRS for £552/mth, £1,600 upfront. 10,000miles but over 4 years.That means if would cost me just under £28,000, including RFL which is now £450/yr, to have the car for 4 years. From memory, the car was c£65,000 list price.
If I'd matched your £8,000 discount, that would have been £57,000. I would have to be certain the car would only lose £28,000 (50%) in 4 years. Thats ambitious. Add in the RFL, and it would need to lose only £26,000 over 4 years. Do you think your car would be worth at least £31,000 after four years?
....and thats before the return you could have if you invested your £57,000.
Cross-posted from another thread, my current and incoming car:
I currently have a 640d GC. Bought brand new, it costs me £561/mth and I put £4,000 down. This was on a 4 year PCP (12k/yr - currently 3yrs 3 months in). The current settlement figure is £22k and the car is worth somewhere between £25-27k.
That means, to date, it has cost me just under £26k for 39 months. If I sell it tomorrow, I'll get £3-5k 'back'.
If I'd bought it brand new, and sold it tomorrow, it would have dropped a lot more than £26k in that 3yrs 3 months, let alone the net £21-23k.
It's also been risk free, and a fixed outgoing.
My next car is being leased. £65k Alfa Quadrifoglio, again over 4 yrs, but at 15,000 per year. £572/mth, £1,700 upfront, and includes RFL for the duration.
Over the 4 years, 60,000 miles it will cost me £29,156. Even with the best deals available, a £65k Alfa will easily lose £29k (44%) of it's value over 4 years and 60,000. And that's before you factor in £1800 of RFL that the private buyer will also have to pay for.
On top of all of those, my investments over the last 3 years have risen by 20-25%. So tell me again why I would tie my capital up in a car for no commercial reason...and with significant Opportunity Cost??
But for some lease companies, you're on your own in year 4.....But thats the same as with private or cash purchases!
Earthdweller said:
My neighbour has a 66 plate disco sport .. lovely looking thing in HSE spec
However, it is forever back in the garage for all sorts of different reasons
He has had everything from Range Rovers to evoques as loan cars
I reckon it must have been off the road for at least 2 months since November
My X3 however in 2 1/2 years hasn't had one single day off the road other than servicing
Disco from 3-8 years old even worse at 39% reliability and costs lots to repair according to Which?However, it is forever back in the garage for all sorts of different reasons
He has had everything from Range Rovers to evoques as loan cars
I reckon it must have been off the road for at least 2 months since November
My X3 however in 2 1/2 years hasn't had one single day off the road other than servicing
Pintofbest said:
It is worrying and concerning for two reasons for me - firstly there are people out there with current issues that need sorting (I've stepped in to a couple on here in the past), but also people tarnishing the brand in public based on a single experience, or even a group but certainly not big enough to represent the whole brand and product experience.
I think the quality challenges are well documented and are at the highest level to resolve internally as we should be at the top/near top but for every unhappy owner there are plenty more that are delighted (and some in between obviously). Also, older cars are talked about a lot but they are different models based on different engineering - you hear about Mercs from the bad days but it seems JLR product is thought to have the same problems as an old disco or classic RR.
Working here is great, the energy and excitement coupled with the desire to get things right also means it is a challenge - it's a big thing to change and due to growth and ambition everything is changing all the time and for the better. The amount of investment and growth in the UK in particular is staggering - directly and through the supply chain - so it can only be a good thing. I think my biggest frustration on here sometimes is people criticising a car on their very narrow needs or experience (2.0 RRS for example) - it is a global brand dealing with ever changing and challenging needs across a diverse customer base. The fact sales are doing what they are, with what seems like a new model every other month, record profits, record investment, much more to do, means we must be doing some thing right, in terms of growth we are up their with the best in terms of percentage.
Also, just to address the size point above - when I first heard about Velar it was talked about as being as long as a RRS but as high as an evoque so the sizing was intended, the type of experience, ability and price point is in the middle though unless you load it to do the same as the model above.
I'm not sure that was the most appropriate response given your employer. I think the quality challenges are well documented and are at the highest level to resolve internally as we should be at the top/near top but for every unhappy owner there are plenty more that are delighted (and some in between obviously). Also, older cars are talked about a lot but they are different models based on different engineering - you hear about Mercs from the bad days but it seems JLR product is thought to have the same problems as an old disco or classic RR.
Working here is great, the energy and excitement coupled with the desire to get things right also means it is a challenge - it's a big thing to change and due to growth and ambition everything is changing all the time and for the better. The amount of investment and growth in the UK in particular is staggering - directly and through the supply chain - so it can only be a good thing. I think my biggest frustration on here sometimes is people criticising a car on their very narrow needs or experience (2.0 RRS for example) - it is a global brand dealing with ever changing and challenging needs across a diverse customer base. The fact sales are doing what they are, with what seems like a new model every other month, record profits, record investment, much more to do, means we must be doing some thing right, in terms of growth we are up their with the best in terms of percentage.
Also, just to address the size point above - when I first heard about Velar it was talked about as being as long as a RRS but as high as an evoque so the sizing was intended, the type of experience, ability and price point is in the middle though unless you load it to do the same as the model above.
What you're describing is simply word of mouth and peer reinforcement. It happens with any product/service - its why its critically important to get a product right to start with and/or handle issues correctly.
Never mistake sales and (in particular) growth for happy customers. It can be a trap that leads to a difficult position in the long term. It also doesn't make any unhappy or unimpressed customers/potential customers feel any better.
That said I do love lots of the JLR product range, and I can count 9 friends with JLR products produced in the last 5 years, all of which have had very few/no issues and are very happy with their cars.
I work with JLR, see the worst of things (due to my line of work) and would still happily own one of JLR's products. To me that speaks volumes.
crosseyedlion said:
Pintofbest said:
It is worrying and concerning for two reasons for me - firstly there are people out there with current issues that need sorting (I've stepped in to a couple on here in the past), but also people tarnishing the brand in public based on a single experience, or even a group but certainly not big enough to represent the whole brand and product experience.
I think the quality challenges are well documented and are at the highest level to resolve internally as we should be at the top/near top but for every unhappy owner there are plenty more that are delighted (and some in between obviously). Also, older cars are talked about a lot but they are different models based on different engineering - you hear about Mercs from the bad days but it seems JLR product is thought to have the same problems as an old disco or classic RR.
Working here is great, the energy and excitement coupled with the desire to get things right also means it is a challenge - it's a big thing to change and due to growth and ambition everything is changing all the time and for the better. The amount of investment and growth in the UK in particular is staggering - directly and through the supply chain - so it can only be a good thing. I think my biggest frustration on here sometimes is people criticising a car on their very narrow needs or experience (2.0 RRS for example) - it is a global brand dealing with ever changing and challenging needs across a diverse customer base. The fact sales are doing what they are, with what seems like a new model every other month, record profits, record investment, much more to do, means we must be doing some thing right, in terms of growth we are up their with the best in terms of percentage.
Also, just to address the size point above - when I first heard about Velar it was talked about as being as long as a RRS but as high as an evoque so the sizing was intended, the type of experience, ability and price point is in the middle though unless you load it to do the same as the model above.
I'm not sure that was the most appropriate response given your employer. I think the quality challenges are well documented and are at the highest level to resolve internally as we should be at the top/near top but for every unhappy owner there are plenty more that are delighted (and some in between obviously). Also, older cars are talked about a lot but they are different models based on different engineering - you hear about Mercs from the bad days but it seems JLR product is thought to have the same problems as an old disco or classic RR.
Working here is great, the energy and excitement coupled with the desire to get things right also means it is a challenge - it's a big thing to change and due to growth and ambition everything is changing all the time and for the better. The amount of investment and growth in the UK in particular is staggering - directly and through the supply chain - so it can only be a good thing. I think my biggest frustration on here sometimes is people criticising a car on their very narrow needs or experience (2.0 RRS for example) - it is a global brand dealing with ever changing and challenging needs across a diverse customer base. The fact sales are doing what they are, with what seems like a new model every other month, record profits, record investment, much more to do, means we must be doing some thing right, in terms of growth we are up their with the best in terms of percentage.
Also, just to address the size point above - when I first heard about Velar it was talked about as being as long as a RRS but as high as an evoque so the sizing was intended, the type of experience, ability and price point is in the middle though unless you load it to do the same as the model above.
What you're describing is simply word of mouth and peer reinforcement. It happens with any product/service - its why its critically important to get a product right to start with and/or handle issues correctly.
Never mistake sales and (in particular) growth for happy customers. It can be a trap that leads to a difficult position in the long term. It also doesn't make any unhappy or unimpressed customers/potential customers feel any better.
That said I do love lots of the JLR product range, and I can count 9 friends with JLR products produced in the last 5 years, all of which have had very few/no issues and are very happy with their cars.
I work with JLR, see the worst of things (due to my line of work) and would still happily own one of JLR's products. To me that speaks volumes.
Friend of mine works at car door production. Says Honda are very strict on quality, whereas JLR "don't give a toss"
(No , i'm not a JLR hater btw) http://www.am-online.com/news/dealer-news/2017/06/...
Ares said:
My next car is being leased. £65k Alfa Quadrifoglio, again over 4 yrs, but at 15,000 per year. £572/mth, £1,700 upfront, and includes RFL for the duration.
Over the 4 years, 60,000 miles it will cost me £29,156. Even with the best deals available, a £65k Alfa will easily lose £29k (44%) of it's value over 4 years and 60,000. And that's before you factor in £1800 of RFL that the private buyer will also have to pay for.
If I wasn't a third of the way through my current Cupra lease deal, I would be all over that.Over the 4 years, 60,000 miles it will cost me £29,156. Even with the best deals available, a £65k Alfa will easily lose £29k (44%) of it's value over 4 years and 60,000. And that's before you factor in £1800 of RFL that the private buyer will also have to pay for.
If they are the deals in a year or so, I will be having one!
MOBB said:
Ares said:
My next car is being leased. £65k Alfa Quadrifoglio, again over 4 yrs, but at 15,000 per year. £572/mth, £1,700 upfront, and includes RFL for the duration.
Over the 4 years, 60,000 miles it will cost me £29,156. Even with the best deals available, a £65k Alfa will easily lose £29k (44%) of it's value over 4 years and 60,000. And that's before you factor in £1800 of RFL that the private buyer will also have to pay for.
If I wasn't a third of the way through my current Cupra lease deal, I would be all over that.Over the 4 years, 60,000 miles it will cost me £29,156. Even with the best deals available, a £65k Alfa will easily lose £29k (44%) of it's value over 4 years and 60,000. And that's before you factor in £1800 of RFL that the private buyer will also have to pay for.
If they are the deals in a year or so, I will be having one!
Ares said:
One of the brokers I used to source my Alfa offered me a 3.0 V6 HSE RRS for £552/mth, £1,600 upfront. 10,000miles but over 4 years.
That means if would cost me just under £28,000, including RFL which is now £450/yr, to have the car for 4 years. From memory, the car was c£65,000 list price.
If I'd matched your £8,000 discount, that would have been £57,000. I would have to be certain the car would only lose £28,000 (50%) in 4 years. Thats ambitious. Add in the RFL, and it would need to lose only £26,000 over 4 years. Do you think your car would be worth at least £31,000 after four years?
....and thats before the return you could have if you invested your £57,000.
Cross-posted from another thread, my current and incoming car:
I currently have a 640d GC. Bought brand new, it costs me £561/mth and I put £4,000 down. This was on a 4 year PCP (12k/yr - currently 3yrs 3 months in). The current settlement figure is £22k and the car is worth somewhere between £25-27k.
That means, to date, it has cost me just under £26k for 39 months. If I sell it tomorrow, I'll get £3-5k 'back'.
If I'd bought it brand new, and sold it tomorrow, it would have dropped a lot more than £26k in that 3yrs 3 months, let alone the net £21-23k.
It's also been risk free, and a fixed outgoing.
My next car is being leased. £65k Alfa Quadrifoglio, again over 4 yrs, but at 15,000 per year. £572/mth, £1,700 upfront, and includes RFL for the duration.
Over the 4 years, 60,000 miles it will cost me £29,156. Even with the best deals available, a £65k Alfa will easily lose £29k (44%) of it's value over 4 years and 60,000. And that's before you factor in £1800 of RFL that the private buyer will also have to pay for.
On top of all of those, my investments over the last 3 years have risen by 20-25%. So tell me again why I would tie my capital up in a car for no commercial reason...and with significant Opportunity Cost??
But you are working off the list price of £65k, which as we know are set silly high to make people think they are winning on the monthlies,it is a bit of an illusion really that they apply into the figures.You would be crazy to pay £65k for it with the known depreciation involved.Having said that i think they are great cars and something a little different.Enjoy.That means if would cost me just under £28,000, including RFL which is now £450/yr, to have the car for 4 years. From memory, the car was c£65,000 list price.
If I'd matched your £8,000 discount, that would have been £57,000. I would have to be certain the car would only lose £28,000 (50%) in 4 years. Thats ambitious. Add in the RFL, and it would need to lose only £26,000 over 4 years. Do you think your car would be worth at least £31,000 after four years?
....and thats before the return you could have if you invested your £57,000.
Cross-posted from another thread, my current and incoming car:
I currently have a 640d GC. Bought brand new, it costs me £561/mth and I put £4,000 down. This was on a 4 year PCP (12k/yr - currently 3yrs 3 months in). The current settlement figure is £22k and the car is worth somewhere between £25-27k.
That means, to date, it has cost me just under £26k for 39 months. If I sell it tomorrow, I'll get £3-5k 'back'.
If I'd bought it brand new, and sold it tomorrow, it would have dropped a lot more than £26k in that 3yrs 3 months, let alone the net £21-23k.
It's also been risk free, and a fixed outgoing.
My next car is being leased. £65k Alfa Quadrifoglio, again over 4 yrs, but at 15,000 per year. £572/mth, £1,700 upfront, and includes RFL for the duration.
Over the 4 years, 60,000 miles it will cost me £29,156. Even with the best deals available, a £65k Alfa will easily lose £29k (44%) of it's value over 4 years and 60,000. And that's before you factor in £1800 of RFL that the private buyer will also have to pay for.
On top of all of those, my investments over the last 3 years have risen by 20-25%. So tell me again why I would tie my capital up in a car for no commercial reason...and with significant Opportunity Cost??
The Moose said:
Ares said:
forest172 said:
And pay about £10k interest over 36 months on the PCP deal?
One of the brokers I used to source my Alfa offered me a 3.0 V6 HSE RRS for £552/mth, £1,600 upfront. 10,000miles but over 4 years.That means if would cost me just under £28,000, including RFL which is now £450/yr, to have the car for 4 years. From memory, the car was c£65,000 list price.
If I'd matched your £8,000 discount, that would have been £57,000. I would have to be certain the car would only lose £28,000 (50%) in 4 years. Thats ambitious. Add in the RFL, and it would need to lose only £26,000 over 4 years. Do you think your car would be worth at least £31,000 after four years?
....and thats before the return you could have if you invested your £57,000.
Cross-posted from another thread, my current and incoming car:
I currently have a 640d GC. Bought brand new, it costs me £561/mth and I put £4,000 down. This was on a 4 year PCP (12k/yr - currently 3yrs 3 months in). The current settlement figure is £22k and the car is worth somewhere between £25-27k.
That means, to date, it has cost me just under £26k for 39 months. If I sell it tomorrow, I'll get £3-5k 'back'.
If I'd bought it brand new, and sold it tomorrow, it would have dropped a lot more than £26k in that 3yrs 3 months, let alone the net £21-23k.
It's also been risk free, and a fixed outgoing.
My next car is being leased. £65k Alfa Quadrifoglio, again over 4 yrs, but at 15,000 per year. £572/mth, £1,700 upfront, and includes RFL for the duration.
Over the 4 years, 60,000 miles it will cost me £29,156. Even with the best deals available, a £65k Alfa will easily lose £29k (44%) of it's value over 4 years and 60,000. And that's before you factor in £1800 of RFL that the private buyer will also have to pay for.
On top of all of those, my investments over the last 3 years have risen by 20-25%. So tell me again why I would tie my capital up in a car for no commercial reason...and with significant Opportunity Cost??
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