Electric cars, does everyone really think they are amazing.
Discussion
manracer said:
Lancerevo said:
All EVs will also need a new battery maybe every year 5 years and this is not going to be cheap and maybe a way for the government to claw back some much needed tax. I have seen some batteries for the Toyotas up at around £4500. This will surely kill the future resale.
May I suggest you, and anyone else who thinks the same to watch this:https://teslanomics.co/tesla-batteries-last-foreve...
I also hear that old Prius batteries are holding up quite well too!
Its isnt like IC cars never have any expensive potential drivetrain issues that can cost thousands, stuff that EV's just dont have,
Wonky Auto boxes
Oil consumption
Timing chains
Timing Belt needing changing to avoid valve and piston being introduced
Clutches wearing
Gear linkage
Turbos
Injectors
DPF failure on diesels
Exhausts
Cooling system
EV's dont need as much servicing, to be honest, not sure what they would do other than a cursory check of the brakes and suspension, the brakes dont get used as much due to the regen functionality, suspension may get more use as they tend to be heavier but would imagine its designed accordingly, also, reckon with all that torque, tyres take a right pasting if you use the torque.
So, the battery, its a biggie,but there should be are much less in terms of other issues and routine maintenance.
Do the motors ever actually fail on and EV ?
We have just replaced both cars, so we have no plans (or budget) to do anything for at least the next 3-4 years, but we are highly likely to replace one of our IC cars with an EV next time round. My work does sometimes take me beyond the range of an EV, and I'm not prepared to sit around for an hour waiting for recharging to happen, so one IC car will be retained. However, I know I could do about 95% of my business mileage in an EV without any problem, and could do all my private mileage, bar one or two trips a year.
Limpet said:
We have just replaced both cars, so we have no plans (or budget) to do anything for at least the next 3-4 years, but we are highly likely to replace one of our IC cars with an EV next time round. My work does sometimes take me beyond the range of an EV, and I'm not prepared to sit around for an hour waiting for recharging to happen, so one IC car will be retained. However, I know I could do about 95% of my business mileage in an EV without any problem, and could do all my private mileage, bar one or two trips a year.
That's how I found myself in an Ampera. My commute is almost entirely Electric, my socialising is usually within range of a BEV, but work travel can send me 200 miles on short notice. Even though the Ampera MPG on petrol isn't great (45MPG) it's more than covered by mileage expenses.I've just changed jobs, and gone from doing 1200 miles a week to less than 200. I wish I could have a electric car, but a Mondeo with a fuel card is cheaper, ( no personal use, no tax due)
Out of interest, for people who have fuel cards, and then where to go over to electric cars, charged at home, can you claim the cost incurred to charge it back? As it would then be costing you money to fuel a Work vehicle?
Out of interest, for people who have fuel cards, and then where to go over to electric cars, charged at home, can you claim the cost incurred to charge it back? As it would then be costing you money to fuel a Work vehicle?
All this talk about economy yet no-one has considered that EVs currently qualify for a government subsidy of £2500 or £4500 (or 35% of the cost), depending on model, which the dealer takes off the price.
How long do you honestly think that can last as EVs get more popular and VED revenue falls?
Let's take the £18000 base Zoe and suddenly you're looking at a small car costing £22500 and likely to suffer high depreciation.
I'm surprised that no-one has taken the Government to task for unfair trading practices.
How long do you honestly think that can last as EVs get more popular and VED revenue falls?
Let's take the £18000 base Zoe and suddenly you're looking at a small car costing £22500 and likely to suffer high depreciation.
I'm surprised that no-one has taken the Government to task for unfair trading practices.
LuS1fer said:
All this talk about economy yet no-one has considered that EVs currently qualify for a government subsidy of £2500 or £4500 (or 35% of the cost), depending on model, which the dealer takes off the price.
How long do you honestly think that can last as EVs get more popular and VED revenue falls?
Let's take the £18000 base Zoe and suddenly you're looking at a small car costing £22500 and likely to suffer high depreciation.
I'm surprised that no-one has taken the Government to task for unfair trading practices.
That topic has been widely covered on PH.How long do you honestly think that can last as EVs get more popular and VED revenue falls?
Let's take the £18000 base Zoe and suddenly you're looking at a small car costing £22500 and likely to suffer high depreciation.
I'm surprised that no-one has taken the Government to task for unfair trading practices.
Electric vehicles are not yet competitive.
Guess which country does NOT subsidise electric vehicles
J4CKO said:
manracer said:
Lancerevo said:
All EVs will also need a new battery maybe every year 5 years and this is not going to be cheap and maybe a way for the government to claw back some much needed tax. I have seen some batteries for the Toyotas up at around £4500. This will surely kill the future resale.
May I suggest you, and anyone else who thinks the same to watch this:https://teslanomics.co/tesla-batteries-last-foreve...
I also hear that old Prius batteries are holding up quite well too!
Its isnt like IC cars never have any expensive potential drivetrain issues that can cost thousands, stuff that EV's just dont have,
Wonky Auto boxes
Oil consumption
Timing chains
Timing Belt needing changing to avoid valve and piston being introduced
Clutches wearing
Gear linkage
Turbos
Injectors
DPF failure on diesels
Exhausts
Cooling system
EV's dont need as much servicing, to be honest, not sure what they would do other than a cursory check of the brakes and suspension, the brakes dont get used as much due to the regen functionality, suspension may get more use as they tend to be heavier but would imagine its designed accordingly, also, reckon with all that torque, tyres take a right pasting if you use the torque.
So, the battery, its a biggie,but there should be are much less in terms of other issues and routine maintenance.
Do the motors ever actually fail on and EV ?
Degradation is low (assuming the figures are not doctored in any way).
Yipper said:
That topic has been widely covered on PH.
Electric vehicles are not yet competitive.
Guess which country does NOT subsidise electric vehicles
I'm not sure that the Us is feeling the love either, the sales are very small and that's with Nissan practically giving Leafs away. The Chevy Bolt is not selling either and used EV vales are extremely low at auctions.Electric vehicles are not yet competitive.
Guess which country does NOT subsidise electric vehicles
http://jalopnik.com/the-sad-nissan-leaf-is-beating...
LuS1fer said:
Evanivitch said:
LuS1fer said:
I'm surprised that no-one has taken the Government to task for unfair trading practices.
What's unfair about it?Evanivitch said:
What advantage? A EV still isn't cheaper than a comparable ICE to buy outright.
When I get £4500 to artificially deflate the cost of my ICE, come back. In the meantime, that's my taxes subsidising EV buyers who are apparently making such huge savings, they should pay for it themselves. Let's imagine that a camera manufacturer creates an expensive new type of camera and the Government decided to subsidise it. It has to be a level playing field and while people gloat about low running costs, we are paying for it.
LuS1fer said:
When I get £4500 to artificially deflate the cost of my ICE, come back. In the meantime, that's my taxes subsidising EV buyers who are apparently making such huge savings, they should pay for it themselves.
Let's imagine that a camera manufacturer creates an expensive new type of camera and the Government decided to subsidise it. It has to be a level playing field and while people gloat about low running costs, we are paying for it.
The government wants to influence consumer behaviour and encourage infrastructure development. It can do that with a carrot or a stick. Either way the tax payer pays.Let's imagine that a camera manufacturer creates an expensive new type of camera and the Government decided to subsidise it. It has to be a level playing field and while people gloat about low running costs, we are paying for it.
The camera analogy is misconceived, as cameras do not have the same effect on the functioning of society and using an older digital camera does not impact on either human health or the wider environment.
In any case, there will be a tipping point in the future, when the number of EVs being built and sold allows the development costs to be amortised over sufficient units that there won't be an excess cost over ICE equivalents.
The government can't really be guilty of unfair trading practices because the government isn't trading. Nor is it favouring one company over another, it's just favouring one type of product over another which is something all governments use taxation and subsidies for all the time.
It's certainly no different than the different taxation levels we have on different type of fuel for ICE powered cars.
It's certainly no different than the different taxation levels we have on different type of fuel for ICE powered cars.
LuS1fer said:
When I get £4500 to artificially deflate the cost of my ICE, come back. In the meantime, that's my taxes subsidising EV buyers who are apparently making such huge savings, they should pay for it themselves.
Let's imagine that a camera manufacturer creates an expensive new type of camera and the Government decided to subsidise it. It has to be a level playing field and while people gloat about low running costs, we are paying for it.
You still haven't explained why it's an issue for the competition authority.Let's imagine that a camera manufacturer creates an expensive new type of camera and the Government decided to subsidise it. It has to be a level playing field and while people gloat about low running costs, we are paying for it.
Tax payer money (and tax breaks) favour all parts of the ICE supply chain from exploration and refining of oil, to the manufacturing and sales of cars.
What you're irked about is no different to the benefits of having a company car. And that alone has helped the car industry far more than the EV subsidy.
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