Bmw 4 series spun out of control m25
Discussion
popeyewhite said:
Max_Torque said:
....And when i do i usually say to my passengers "oh look, there's someone on their way to the scene of an accident" and they often say "so what, what difference does it make?" and there's the thing,.. etc etc
I bet the queue for a lift with you stretches all the way round the building... .( but on the other hand, the queue to get into my car when someone needs to be far away in the very shortest possible time is very long indeed because i have demonstrated over many years a suitable driving consistency.......)
Chestrockwell said:
a puddle .. if you do hit one you can hear that noise and the stability control light flashes for a few seconds then it goes away, I say this because it happens every time it rains,
It's been said, but if the traction control light flashes every time you're driving through standing water then you're often going too fast for the conditions and the car is telling you so.3mm of tread on your tyre should be fine for general motoring, but as you've found, at speed and in heavy rain, it's got a lot of work to do shifting water and can't be expected to be as efficient as a new tyre with 7-8mm of tread.
Cheer up though, a lesson learned, nobody dead and no metal bent,
RogueTrooper said:
Chestrockwell said:
a puddle .. if you do hit one you can hear that noise and the stability control light flashes for a few seconds then it goes away, I say this because it happens every time it rains,
It's been said, but if the traction control light flashes every time you're driving through standing water then you're often going too fast for the conditions and the car is telling you so.3mm of tread on your tyre should be fine for general motoring, but as you've found, at speed and in heavy rain, it's got a lot of work to do shifting water and can't be expected to be as efficient as a new tyre with 7-8mm of tread.
Cheer up though, a lesson learned, nobody dead and no metal bent,
I’ve owned a number of BMW’s over the years and they are all very sensitive to tyre choice, especially on the front, as soon as they wear down below 3mm the steering felt very heavy and the car had a tendency to tramline especially with runflats, as soon as the front had fresh rubber the feel of the car was completely transformed, my advice would be to swap tyres at 3mm and as a previous poster suggested, swap them as a pair.
Fair play to the OP for wanting to learn.
The traction control lamp is a warning light, you are starting to lose control of some wheels it is saying.
In the wet slow down by an amount dictated by the amount of water, tyre width and wear and surrounding traffic. You really don't want to be the fastest car!
Don't do it again.
The traction control lamp is a warning light, you are starting to lose control of some wheels it is saying.
In the wet slow down by an amount dictated by the amount of water, tyre width and wear and surrounding traffic. You really don't want to be the fastest car!
Don't do it again.
In the wet Autobahns in Germany are limited to 130km/h generally. So you would have been speeding even there. And in France the speed limit reduces from 130km/h to 110km/h in the wet.
You were driving too fast for the wet conditions. Simple as that.
If your car is activating the ESP/traction light when it rains, and doing so on a regular basis you are not driving sympathetically enough.
Calm down and live to fight another day.
You were driving too fast for the wet conditions. Simple as that.
If your car is activating the ESP/traction light when it rains, and doing so on a regular basis you are not driving sympathetically enough.
Calm down and live to fight another day.
Edited by GroundEffect on Saturday 11th November 17:00
I drive a 640D Gran Coupe on 20 inch runflats. I will admit openly i have had the dsc light up twice in two years. Both of them when turning corners on my Winter tyres and putting power down.
However there are times i have reacted before the cars electronics have, knowing the balance was on the limit.
I am lucky in a sense the 6 is longer and weighs more than the 4, but i have more torque and even power.
Many have said it, but doing 90 in the rain is f*cking stupid, even 70 is sometimes excessive. Last time in really heavy rain and storms on the M20 i was down to 50 and even then it was still hairy.
Accept that you got away with it and learn from it though. The car is not at fault, your driving speed and style clearly contributed significantly to the loss of control more than anything else.
As said by others though, large tyres are more likely to aquaplane and Winter conditions. I switched my 640 over to Winter tyres start of November.
Summer - F 245/35/R20, R 275/30/R20
Winter - F & R 225/55/R17
That combination for Winter makes the 640 far more effective in Rain and Winter conditions as makes the car usable when otherwise a RWD combination would be ineffective as the cars weight is more focused and allows it to cut through water and fresh snow effectively (in addition to the Winter tyre compound and design).
My thoughts:
1) slow the f
k down in poor conditions
2) learn from this fk up (and no damage was caused)
3) think about your tyres, unlike FWD, RWD really do rely on tyres being correct to the season and in good condition
4) you may want to get the car on a Hunter to check the alignment as mine was in spec but not ideal
5) further driver training
6) before i bought my 640 my first RWD car was an MX5 with only ABS it taught me a lot about the dynamics of RWD at slower speeds, less torque and power, but can easily be transferred over to driving other RWD applications as your a*se and senses are more in tune with the delivery application. Before that i had also driven FWD cars with no driver aids as well (with PCP deals it is so easy now for people to step into high performance RWD cars with little to no experience of them until it goes totally wrong)
7) remember point 1 again.
However there are times i have reacted before the cars electronics have, knowing the balance was on the limit.
I am lucky in a sense the 6 is longer and weighs more than the 4, but i have more torque and even power.
Many have said it, but doing 90 in the rain is f*cking stupid, even 70 is sometimes excessive. Last time in really heavy rain and storms on the M20 i was down to 50 and even then it was still hairy.
Accept that you got away with it and learn from it though. The car is not at fault, your driving speed and style clearly contributed significantly to the loss of control more than anything else.
As said by others though, large tyres are more likely to aquaplane and Winter conditions. I switched my 640 over to Winter tyres start of November.
Summer - F 245/35/R20, R 275/30/R20
Winter - F & R 225/55/R17
That combination for Winter makes the 640 far more effective in Rain and Winter conditions as makes the car usable when otherwise a RWD combination would be ineffective as the cars weight is more focused and allows it to cut through water and fresh snow effectively (in addition to the Winter tyre compound and design).
My thoughts:
1) slow the f
k down in poor conditions 2) learn from this f
k up (and no damage was caused)3) think about your tyres, unlike FWD, RWD really do rely on tyres being correct to the season and in good condition
4) you may want to get the car on a Hunter to check the alignment as mine was in spec but not ideal
5) further driver training
6) before i bought my 640 my first RWD car was an MX5 with only ABS it taught me a lot about the dynamics of RWD at slower speeds, less torque and power, but can easily be transferred over to driving other RWD applications as your a*se and senses are more in tune with the delivery application. Before that i had also driven FWD cars with no driver aids as well (with PCP deals it is so easy now for people to step into high performance RWD cars with little to no experience of them until it goes totally wrong)
7) remember point 1 again.
Edited by Ninja59 on Saturday 11th November 17:08
Chestrockwell said:
When I overtook cars, I let go of the accelerator and slowed down to 75/80 as the .... how do you call it, the water splashing from under the cars I’m passing made it difficult to see so I slow down to be safer.
So my point is, at those speeds, everything was safe and felt safe. While it may not be the legal speed limit, if I was doing it in Germany, it would have been legal and safe. So let’s put the 70 mph speed limit to the side for a second.
You talk about legal and safe as if the two always go together, they often don't, you can be safe but not legal and legal but not safe depending on the conditions, as you found out. So my point is, at those speeds, everything was safe and felt safe. While it may not be the legal speed limit, if I was doing it in Germany, it would have been legal and safe. So let’s put the 70 mph speed limit to the side for a second.
When the spray is so bad you're having difficulty seeing then it's time to slow down and take additional care.
You aquaplaned and it's not nice, most will have experienced it and I have too at 90 mph at WOT and it goes wrong very quickly, but you're OK so lesson learnt (just like me) and no harm, no foul etc....
The fact that you had to slow down to 80 because of spray sort of indicates you were probably travelling too fast for the conditions (albeit on a separate leg of your journey). Using the old autobahn argument for raising speed limits can be harmful in my opinion as they are more dangerous than UK motorways, which sort of proves a point for the Brake activists.
I driven on Autobahns in Germany on a couple of occasions and the idea that it’s full of Audi RS6’s coming past at 160mph is a myth, the driving standards are much higher than the U.K., most cars are doing about 85mph, Lane discipline is much better than over here and I would say generally the speeds were similar to a U.K. motorway. In fact the only way I knew that the road was unrestricted was that the Sat Nav didn’t display a speed limit.
Chestrockwell said:
This is the 3mm tyre in question, right side front, the tread depth is about 3 mm id say however the part over the sidewall is slightly bald, does this make it illegal? Is this why it happened
Surely just aquaplaned.
People think their big sporty German model will be the last word in handling the road. But the wide tyres are probably worse in such conditions. Whereas something with bicycle tyres would be better.
As well I remember reading auto express? Doing a test on tyre tread depth. Their conclusion was that the 1.6 limit was just about fine in the dry. But that really you probably should be thinking about new rubber at 3 mm. I'll see if I can find it.
People think their big sporty German model will be the last word in handling the road. But the wide tyres are probably worse in such conditions. Whereas something with bicycle tyres would be better.
As well I remember reading auto express? Doing a test on tyre tread depth. Their conclusion was that the 1.6 limit was just about fine in the dry. But that really you probably should be thinking about new rubber at 3 mm. I'll see if I can find it.
Chestrockwell said:
Modern cars can handle 90 mph, especially mine, maybe a 08 plate corsa on 185 section tyres can’t handle 90 mph in the rain but a 2015 430d m sport can
^^^This is your problem Your BMW will have stupidly wide tyres like all modern BMWs
A Corsa on 185s will clear the water BETTER than a BMW on what 285s ?
(depending on tread type, depth etc but generally narrow section tyres resist aquaplaning far better than wider ones)
phil1979 said:
10 x 360 spins? Chinny Reckon.
Good point, I have spun too many times to count how often on wet track days and even from 110/120mph I don't think I have done more than 2 or 3 even on wet grass. I did come off 6 times in 2 laps of a wet Bedford in my mates gt3 which he reminds me of a lot but we were provoking it.I am not a powerfully built director though
It's harder to detect aquaplaning with a RWD car. A FWD car will start spinning the wheels, but with a RWD car the aquaplaning front wheels will clear enough water for the rear wheels to grip. Grip on the back, no grip on the front = spin. If you detect aquaplaning the best thing to do is ease off the accelerator until it stops doing so, then moderate your speed thereafter.
If you're aquaplaning all four you're in serious trouble.
If you're aquaplaning all four you're in serious trouble.
This is reminding me of Jules and Vincent from Pulp Fiction, when the stoner burst out of the bathroom and unloads a revolver and misses them completely despite being like 8 feet away, divine intervention!
Seriously hope you have bought a lottery ticket for tonight, and some fresh Y fronts....
Seriously hope you have bought a lottery ticket for tonight, and some fresh Y fronts....
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