Many New Luxury Cars on the Road - How?
Discussion
crankedup said:
troika said:
crankedup said:
When people start swanking and bragging about thier latest car I always ask if they are interested in yachting and have they tried out the latest ‘sunseeker’ yet?
One day somebody will take me up on it.
Sunseeker, ha! Ask if they have a Wally. If they don’t think you are being rude, they are likely to be of fairly reasonable means...One day somebody will take me up on it.
I know this having googled for the website and seen the gorgeous images
Jaguar steve said:
Indeed, it really is a British thing. I love the continentals attitude to cars that makes them their owners servants and not their owners masters.
In the Picos region of Spain locals park in the streets with handbrakes off so they can shunt each others cars about to create a space and many French people who clearly aren't on the breadline and own land and substantial property cheerfully make do with a 15 year old battered Renault or Peugeot. The Croatians don't give a toss either - the only relatively smart cars you'll find there are in the Taxi ranks outside the airport and the marinas along the coast.
Not giving a s
t is incredibly liberating.
I agree it's a British thing. A Brit would rather have 99" rimzz in a car with Sport Bruv trim. A Continental would rather have upgraded leather on the basis that it is what they touch feel and see when in the car.In the Picos region of Spain locals park in the streets with handbrakes off so they can shunt each others cars about to create a space and many French people who clearly aren't on the breadline and own land and substantial property cheerfully make do with a 15 year old battered Renault or Peugeot. The Croatians don't give a toss either - the only relatively smart cars you'll find there are in the Taxi ranks outside the airport and the marinas along the coast.
Not giving a s
t is incredibly liberating.Zod said:
Nanook said:
Is an X3, X5 or Q5 really a 'luxury' car?
They're the soft road version of the saloon. is a 520d a luxury car?
An X5 costs £60K+. If that's not a luxury car, what is?They're the soft road version of the saloon. is a 520d a luxury car?
Luxury implies a level of service or quality not available to the masses. By definition if something is easily accessible via a cheap lease, then it is not really a luxury item. Real luxury is still exclusive. Show me a RR Phantom lease for 500GBP/month. BMW, Audi, Mercedes etc, in spite of what the marketing bods tell you, are still just mostly mass-produced cars no different to Toyota or Ford.
Perhaps it's just the base standard of cars has gone up a lot now. They are so common now that I don't see BMW or Audi as "exclusive" cars at all.
That and PCP as already covered here. I know several people driving 50k+ cars they would never spend 50k on. Just a good leasing deal.
Me, I have an aversion to finance. I buy high milers, well looked after, and continue looking after them well. Let someone else take the depreciation and then I can have the car I want, at a price I can afford cash.
That and PCP as already covered here. I know several people driving 50k+ cars they would never spend 50k on. Just a good leasing deal.
Me, I have an aversion to finance. I buy high milers, well looked after, and continue looking after them well. Let someone else take the depreciation and then I can have the car I want, at a price I can afford cash.
LimaDelta said:
Zod said:
Nanook said:
Is an X3, X5 or Q5 really a 'luxury' car?
They're the soft road version of the saloon. is a 520d a luxury car?
An X5 costs £60K+. If that's not a luxury car, what is?They're the soft road version of the saloon. is a 520d a luxury car?
Luxury implies a level of service or quality [n]not available to the masses.[/b] By definition if something is easily accessible via a cheap lease, then it is not really a luxury item. Real luxury is still exclusive. Show me a RR Phantom lease for 500GBP/month. BMW, Audi, Mercedes etc, in spite of what the marketing bods tell you, are still just mostly mass-produced cars no different to Toyota or Ford.
From the Oxford English Dictionary - A state of great comfort or elegance, especially when involving great expense.
Surely a £60K X5 attains that over say the utility of a £9995 Dacia Duster?
Deep Thought said:
I dont think that particularly forms part of the standard definition of "luxury"
From the Oxford English Dictionary - A state of great comfort or elegance, especially when involving great expense.
Surely a £60K X5 attains that over say the utility of a £9995 Dacia Duster?
I know the OED definition, which I why I said 'implies'.From the Oxford English Dictionary - A state of great comfort or elegance, especially when involving great expense.
Surely a £60K X5 attains that over say the utility of a £9995 Dacia Duster?
A Dacia is a 90's relic rehashed as austerity on wheels. It still doesn't make the X5 luxury, it just makes the Dacia worse than an X5. It may be luxurious in comparison, but it is not a luxury product per se. It's all marketing. Nobody lives on a housing estate anymore, they live in an 'executive development'. Luxury is just another term which is bandied around these days and has lost it's meaning. It used to be the pinnacle of design and craftsmanship, now it is just a buzzword relating to a mass-produced item, whether it is a car, watch, sofa or bottle of shampoo.
Not picking on the X5, It is a great car and a nice place to be. It's just that any similar object sold in those numbers and attainable by most surely can't be a luxury item in the true sense of the world?
But I think the OP's point is valid, compared with the rest of Europe, the UK has a much higher proportion of luxury/nice/fancy/expensive cars.
BRR said:
There are a lot of middle aged people who bought their house in the 80's & 90's that now don't have a mortgage and are earning decent money, so I guess are choosing to spend some of that on a fancy car.
Most young people seen in new 'status' brand vehicles will typically have them on a cheap lease etc, I've got a few friends that drive new Audi's etc yet can't afford to go out for a pint. I personally couldn't ever justify spending more than 10% of my Net income (after pension etc) on paying for a car as I have other things I'd rather spend the money on and with how good cars are these days the laws of diminishing returns means you don't need to spend a lot to get behind the wheel of something very good at meeting whatever your requirements are. However I can totally understand why some people do and if i'm honest i'm often envious of people that are willing to forgo other things to buy their dream car
I agree. For much of my life I was a working stiff and bought and owned cars like a Subaru station wagon, Mazda MPV, Honda Accord, Hyundai Santa Fe, and two Toyota Prius vehicles. They were all decent vehicles and got me and my family where I needed to go.Most young people seen in new 'status' brand vehicles will typically have them on a cheap lease etc, I've got a few friends that drive new Audi's etc yet can't afford to go out for a pint. I personally couldn't ever justify spending more than 10% of my Net income (after pension etc) on paying for a car as I have other things I'd rather spend the money on and with how good cars are these days the laws of diminishing returns means you don't need to spend a lot to get behind the wheel of something very good at meeting whatever your requirements are. However I can totally understand why some people do and if i'm honest i'm often envious of people that are willing to forgo other things to buy their dream car
I am now semi-retired, own my home outright and can afford a luxury vehicle. So now I own a fully loaded BMW 530e (I am grandfathered into the right to drive in the car pool lanes at any time on any day and I am not prepared to give that up yet) and I own it outright (I actually financed it to get the $4K incentive but after four monthly payments I paid it off).
I do think the Mercedes commercials (at least here in the US) are off putting. "The best or nothing". Are they really saying that if one cannot afford a Mercedes one should ride the bus? There are many very competent vehicles at reasonable prices.
I have always been struck by how many younger folks in southern California seem to be driving Mercedes, BMWs, and Audis and I see them parked in the driveway of some very nasty looking homes. I think in this case it is a case of home prices being so high that the people can't afford a home so they spend what little disposable income they have on a new luxury car lease to make them feel better.
I wonder how much of it is Galbreath's induced demand analysis? All those commercials selling the cars as life styles.
steveinarizona said:
I have always been struck by how many younger folks in southern California seem to be driving Mercedes, BMWs, and Audis and I see them parked in the driveway of some very nasty looking homes.
We were in Albania a couple of years ago, and noticed a few luxury UK registered cars - even including a 2014 Bentley - parked outside knackered old houses. We were puzzled as to why so many wealthy UK tourists had chosen to drive all the way to Albania and then slum it.All was revealed when we found a local that spoke English. He told us the cars were all stolen from the UK, but that the thieves simply paid a monthly `tax' to the local plod in return for the right to keep them!
Pro Bono said:
We were in Albania a couple of years ago, and noticed a few luxury UK registered cars - even including a 2014 Bentley - parked outside knackered old houses. We were puzzled as to why so many wealthy UK tourists had chosen to drive all the way to Albania and then slum it.
All was revealed when we found a local that spoke English. He told us the cars were all stolen from the UK, but that the thieves simply paid a monthly `tax' to the local plod in return for the right to keep them!
welcome to the EUAll was revealed when we found a local that spoke English. He told us the cars were all stolen from the UK, but that the thieves simply paid a monthly `tax' to the local plod in return for the right to keep them!
CABC said:
Pro Bono said:
We were in Albania a couple of years ago, and noticed a few luxury UK registered cars - even including a 2014 Bentley - parked outside knackered old houses. We were puzzled as to why so many wealthy UK tourists had chosen to drive all the way to Albania and then slum it.
All was revealed when we found a local that spoke English. He told us the cars were all stolen from the UK, but that the thieves simply paid a monthly `tax' to the local plod in return for the right to keep them!
welcome to the EUAll was revealed when we found a local that spoke English. He told us the cars were all stolen from the UK, but that the thieves simply paid a monthly `tax' to the local plod in return for the right to keep them!
CABC said:
djc206 said:
Albania isn’t in the EU
accession negotiations start next year. Jaguar steve said:
Indeed, it really is a British thing. I love the continentals attitude to cars that makes them their owners servants and not their owners masters.
In the Picos region of Spain locals park in the streets with handbrakes off so they can shunt each others cars about to create a space and many French people who clearly aren't on the breadline and own land and substantial property cheerfully make do with a 15 year old battered Renault or Peugeot. The Croatians don't give a toss either - the only relatively smart cars you'll find there are in the Taxi ranks outside the airport and the marinas along the coast.
Not giving a st is incredibly liberating.
The same very valid point was made by an earlier poster. I think it's because we have gradually `developed' to have far more in common with Americans than we do with mainland Europeans. In the Picos region of Spain locals park in the streets with handbrakes off so they can shunt each others cars about to create a space and many French people who clearly aren't on the breadline and own land and substantial property cheerfully make do with a 15 year old battered Renault or Peugeot. The Croatians don't give a toss either - the only relatively smart cars you'll find there are in the Taxi ranks outside the airport and the marinas along the coast.
Not giving a s
t is incredibly liberating.At the risk of generalising, people in Europe, particularly southern Europe, seem to have maintained traditional family and community values far more effectively than we have. There is far more sense of community there than there is in the UK, where people have become increasingly individualistic and isolated, preferring their social contact to be in electronic form rather than face to face.
This social malaise has become epidemic in Japan and South Korea, and we're following them down the same path.
Where there's a strong community you're judged by your character. People know who you are, they know whether you're rich or poor, so there's no point in buying an expensive car as it won't fool your neighbours.
But where no real community exists nobody knows anything about you. Consequently, the main way that people are judged is by their material possessions, and after the house you live in the car you drive is the most obvious sign of your wealth. So the people who judge others on this basis assume they'll also be judged by appearances, hence the need to show off, even if they can't really afford it.
It's all rather sad, but at least it keeps the automotive industry going!
Pro Bono said:
Jaguar steve said:
Indeed, it really is a British thing. I love the continentals attitude to cars that makes them their owners servants and not their owners masters.
In the Picos region of Spain locals park in the streets with handbrakes off so they can shunt each others cars about to create a space and many French people who clearly aren't on the breadline and own land and substantial property cheerfully make do with a 15 year old battered Renault or Peugeot. The Croatians don't give a toss either - the only relatively smart cars you'll find there are in the Taxi ranks outside the airport and the marinas along the coast.
Not giving a st is incredibly liberating.
The same very valid point was made by an earlier poster. I think it's because we have gradually `developed' to have far more in common with Americans than we do with mainland Europeans. In the Picos region of Spain locals park in the streets with handbrakes off so they can shunt each others cars about to create a space and many French people who clearly aren't on the breadline and own land and substantial property cheerfully make do with a 15 year old battered Renault or Peugeot. The Croatians don't give a toss either - the only relatively smart cars you'll find there are in the Taxi ranks outside the airport and the marinas along the coast.
Not giving a s
t is incredibly liberating.At the risk of generalising, people in Europe, particularly southern Europe, seem to have maintained traditional family and community values far more effectively than we have. There is far more sense of community there than there is in the UK, where people have become increasingly individualistic and isolated, preferring their social contact to be in electronic form rather than face to face.
This social malaise has become epidemic in Japan and South Korea, and we're following them down the same path.
Where there's a strong community you're judged by your character. People know who you are, they know whether you're rich or poor, so there's no point in buying an expensive car as it won't fool your neighbours.
But where no real community exists nobody knows anything about you. Consequently, the main way that people are judged is by their material possessions, and after the house you live in the car you drive is the most obvious sign of your wealth. So the people who judge others on this basis assume they'll also be judged by appearances, hence the need to show off, even if they can't really afford it.
It's all rather sad, but at least it keeps the automotive industry going!
I spend about six months of the year on the French/Italian riviera. Sure you get the flashy convertibles and sports cars, but they tend not to be owned by the 'locals'. The cheap car thing must be rubbing off on me as at home my runabout is a 10-year old Panda 100hp.
I guess for me it helps that I'm not involved in any sort of business in the UK, so never have to worry about projecting an image or being judged by co-workers or clients. If I was some golf-playing sales type I'm sure I would feel more pressure to rent some German diesel badge and play the game.
DoubleD said:
If I lived in the Riviera I wouldnt want a nice car either. The way they drive an park is terrible.
Definitely. There are places where I wouldn’t risk having nice things. Certain countries don’t seem to respect cars as other people’s possessions paid for with actual money, I don’t like that attitude. I don’t like our badge snobbery either where everyone feels the need to drive around in a German car with an asthmatic 4 pot diesel under the bonnet. As someone who likes cars though it makes driving in this country a bit more interesting when you see some nice metal out and about, how it’s paid for if of little concern to me.
LimaDelta said:
Totally agree.
I spend about six months of the year on the French/Italian riviera. Sure you get the flashy convertibles and sports cars, but they tend not to be owned by the 'locals'. The cheap car thing must be rubbing off on me as at home my runabout is a 10-year old Panda 100hp.
I guess for me it helps that I'm not involved in any sort of business in the UK, so never have to worry about projecting an image or being judged by co-workers or clients. If I was some golf-playing sales type I'm sure I would feel more pressure to rent some German diesel badge and play the game.
Have you thought, that maybe, low wages have something to do with not seeing many luxury cars when you’re abroad? I spend about six months of the year on the French/Italian riviera. Sure you get the flashy convertibles and sports cars, but they tend not to be owned by the 'locals'. The cheap car thing must be rubbing off on me as at home my runabout is a 10-year old Panda 100hp.
I guess for me it helps that I'm not involved in any sort of business in the UK, so never have to worry about projecting an image or being judged by co-workers or clients. If I was some golf-playing sales type I'm sure I would feel more pressure to rent some German diesel badge and play the game.
Nickbrapp said:
LimaDelta said:
Totally agree.
I spend about six months of the year on the French/Italian riviera. Sure you get the flashy convertibles and sports cars, but they tend not to be owned by the 'locals'. The cheap car thing must be rubbing off on me as at home my runabout is a 10-year old Panda 100hp.
I guess for me it helps that I'm not involved in any sort of business in the UK, so never have to worry about projecting an image or being judged by co-workers or clients. If I was some golf-playing sales type I'm sure I would feel more pressure to rent some German diesel badge and play the game.
Have you thought, that maybe, low wages have something to do with not seeing many luxury cars when you’re abroad? I spend about six months of the year on the French/Italian riviera. Sure you get the flashy convertibles and sports cars, but they tend not to be owned by the 'locals'. The cheap car thing must be rubbing off on me as at home my runabout is a 10-year old Panda 100hp.
I guess for me it helps that I'm not involved in any sort of business in the UK, so never have to worry about projecting an image or being judged by co-workers or clients. If I was some golf-playing sales type I'm sure I would feel more pressure to rent some German diesel badge and play the game.
Source: OECD Figures
So, to which low wages do you refer?
djc206 said:
DoubleD said:
If I lived in the Riviera I wouldnt want a nice car either. The way they drive an park is terrible.
Definitely. There are places where I wouldn’t risk having nice things. Certain countries don’t seem to respect cars as other people’s possessions paid for with actual money, I don’t like that attitude. I don’t like our badge snobbery either where everyone feels the need to drive around in a German car with an asthmatic 4 pot diesel under the bonnet. As someone who likes cars though it makes driving in this country a bit more interesting when you see some nice metal out and about, how it’s paid for if of little concern to me.
If you can own a nice car genuinely without a care in the world then that's fine.
The moment any car starts costing you more time or money or sleep than you'd like or it spoils your day because you're worrying about it or you become concerned by what other people think about it then that car has stopped being your servant and has become your master and that means it's time to get rid.
Jaguar steve said:
.
If you can own a nice car genuinely without a care in the world then that's fine.
The moment any car starts costing you more time or money or sleep than you'd like or it spoils your day because you're worrying about it or you become concerned by what other people think about it then that car has stopped being your servant and has become your master and that means it's time to get rid.
I don’t worry about it here. I would a bit in the south of France/Italy/Spain etc and therefore completely understand why people like me down there drive snotters or cheap new cars. I wouldn’t want to live somewhere where it is par for the course for people to damage the property of others without a second thought. There’s nothing liberating about having your options reduced.If you can own a nice car genuinely without a care in the world then that's fine.
The moment any car starts costing you more time or money or sleep than you'd like or it spoils your day because you're worrying about it or you become concerned by what other people think about it then that car has stopped being your servant and has become your master and that means it's time to get rid.
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