Used cars not selling?

[swamp]

Not sure how an old and rather dated sports car being difficult to sell signals we are in for a "big recession".

Maybe people are just not so keen on MX-5s these days?!

[nickfrog]

MC Bodge said:

I know we are all different, but I don't understand this position.

The risk is minimal for most people/situations.

A car will typically run for over 100K miles with normal servicing, without the sort of problems that a warranty will cover. Defects will often show up in the warranty period, very few in the middle and then faults develop towards the end of its life -"The bath tub model".

If you have 2 or more cars in the household, then the impact of having one of them off the road for a short period is reduced anyway.

Define "minimal" and "typical". The risk is high enough and the difference in cost (when all factors are taken into account) small enough for me to prefer new cars within the warranty period. With a 24 month lease I only have to service the car once at worst and no need for consumables/ MOT and no associated trips to the garage. Sure it's probably costing me more than buying at 2 years and running for 7 years, but then again if everyone preferred that, second hand cars would be far more expensive. I am actually subsidising other people's preferences. What's not to like ?

[swisstoni]

HTP99 said:

indapendentlee said:

swisstoni said:

This ‘where do all the old lease cars go and why aren’t the s/h prices at rock bottom’ question has come up a few times over the years.

If cars can’t be re-leased or sold for a good price I would not be surprised if they weren’t being disappeared by those with a vested interest in there not being a good supply of cheap 3 year old cars about.

Just an idea - I’ve got no proof whatsoever.

They sit at airfields until the market requires them - unsustainable.

Not this st again, do you really think that a manufacturer or a lease company will have fields of 2-4 year old cars worth many millions just sitting there depreciating whilst waiting for the right time to release them or to make sure more new cars are sold?!

Well I wasn’t. I was thinking that they might be removed from the market completely. Either by exporting (as mentioned) or recycling as a last resort.

[Deep Thought]

Olivergt said:

indapendentlee said:

swisstoni said:

This ‘where do all the old lease cars go and why aren’t the s/h prices at rock bottom’ question has come up a few times over the years.

If cars can’t be re-leased or sold for a good price I would not be surprised if they weren’t being disappeared by those with a vested interest in there not being a good supply of cheap 3 year old cars about.

Just an idea - I’ve got no proof whatsoever.

They sit at airfields until the market requires them - unsustainable.

That's quite a claim. Do you have any evidence to support it?

I can tell you that in 2014 about 50,000 cars came to Ireland from the UK and with the pound dropping in value this has increased over the last few years as well.

(Figures for 2014 can be found here : https://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublicat... )

I will see if I can get any newer figures as well.

Found some later figures...

Looks like around 97,000 in 2017

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-ser...

Edited by Olivergt on Tuesday 14th August 10:56

Its a half truth. They sit around for a period of time until they are ready to go to the appropriate auction - that may be days or weeks. Given the amount of capital tied up in them, its in noones interest to have them sitting around any longer than required.

[Deep Thought]

nickfrog said:

MC Bodge said:

I know we are all different, but I don't understand this position.

The risk is minimal for most people/situations.

A car will typically run for over 100K miles with normal servicing, without the sort of problems that a warranty will cover. Defects will often show up in the warranty period, very few in the middle and then faults develop towards the end of its life -"The bath tub model".

If you have 2 or more cars in the household, then the impact of having one of them off the road for a short period is reduced anyway.

Define "minimal" and "typical". The risk is high enough and the difference in cost (when all factors are taken into account) small enough for me to prefer new cars within the warranty period. With a 24 month lease I only have to service the car once at worst and no need for consumables/ MOT and no associated trips to the garage. Sure it's probably costing me more than buying at 2 years and running for 7 years, but then again if everyone preferred that, second hand cars would be far more expensive. I am actually subsidising other people's preferences. What's not to like ?

+1

[MC Bodge]

nickfrog said:

MC Bodge said:

I know we are all different, but I don't understand this position.

The risk is minimal for most people/situations.

A car will typically run for over 100K miles with normal servicing, without the sort of problems that a warranty will cover. Defects will often show up in the warranty period, very few in the middle and then faults develop towards the end of its life -"The bath tub model".

If you have 2 or more cars in the household, then the impact of having one of them off the road for a short period is reduced anyway.

Define "minimal" and "typical". The risk is high enough and the difference in cost (when all factors are taken into account) small enough for me to prefer new cars within the warranty period. With a 24 month lease I only have to service the car once at worst and no need for consumables/ MOT and no associated trips to the garage. Sure it's probably costing me more than buying at 2 years and running for 7 years, but then again if everyone preferred that, second hand cars would be far more expensive. I am actually subsidising other people's preferences. What's not to like ?

There is nothing wrong that approach. I was just pointing out that the perceived risk may be disproportionate as they are actually very reliable if you don't choose something known to be risky.

I have generally done the buying a family car at 2 years old and running for a few years method and haven't been hit with any surprise bills. I don't treat cars particularly gently and my motoring has been pain-free. I can wield spanners myself, but my cars have required less and less work over the years.

[oyster]

Dog Star said:

MDMA . said:

tannhauser said:

Douglas Quaid said:

I looked up the first deal on the pic you posted, £89 for a Suzuki swift. £2400 initial payment! Did you not notice that bit?

No, conveniently forgotten as always

But it's still only £89 per month

Apologies - I didn't spot that but similar deals with 3 months down are out there - off that same company I got a C1 on 10k pa with 3 months down for 99 quid a month. My mate is running around in a 79/month Smart with 3 months down. My aforementioned E class 3 months down (I've had two SLKs and two E class coupes and paid between 330 and 390/month - hassle free motoring).

Top tip - always go for the lowest downpayment. The end cost is almost identical.

I'm cool with leasing, PCP not so much and I'd never even consider a PCP without a guaranteed future value. My brother in law has just fallen foul of this when his car is worth 5k less than his balloon with a year still to go

Smart for £79? Where?

[nickfrog]

MC Bodge said:

There is nothing wrong that approach. I was just pointing out that the perceived risk may be disproportionate as they are actually very reliable if you don't choose something known to be risky.

I have generally done the buying a family car at 2 years old and running for a few years method and haven't been hit with any surprise bills. I don't treat cars particularly gently and my motoring has been pain-free. I can wield spanners myself, but my cars have required less and less work over the years.

Your experience with reliability on cars just outside the manufacturer's warranty has been the polar opposite to mine. I do believe in planned obsolescence and I think the bath tub curve uses one of those very short tubs where you sit in. But perhaps I have been very unlucky? Either way, not worth the small cost uplift and hassle for me. I can wield spanners but resolutely have better things to do with my spare time. To go back to your point about us having 2 cars, well if we only needed one we would only have one as they are needed in different places at different time so that doesn't solve much not that we have much to solve.

[indapendentlee]

Deep Thought said:

Olivergt said:

indapendentlee said:

swisstoni said:

This ‘where do all the old lease cars go and why aren’t the s/h prices at rock bottom’ question has come up a few times over the years.

If cars can’t be re-leased or sold for a good price I would not be surprised if they weren’t being disappeared by those with a vested interest in there not being a good supply of cheap 3 year old cars about.

Just an idea - I’ve got no proof whatsoever.

They sit at airfields until the market requires them - unsustainable.

That's quite a claim. Do you have any evidence to support it?

I can tell you that in 2014 about 50,000 cars came to Ireland from the UK and with the pound dropping in value this has increased over the last few years as well.

(Figures for 2014 can be found here : https://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublicat... )

I will see if I can get any newer figures as well.

Found some later figures...

Looks like around 97,000 in 2017

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-ser...

Edited by Olivergt on Tuesday 14th August 10:56

Its a half truth. They sit around for a period of time until they are ready to go to the appropriate auction - that may be days or weeks. Given the amount of capital tied up in them, its in noones interest to have them sitting around any longer than required.

This is probably more accurate than my admittedly somewhat sensational way of phrasing it, although I do think we are in an unsustainable cycle. The manufacturers are just as considerate of how they bring used/returned cars back into the market as they are with new cars - the used car values influence the residuals that support cheap PCPs.

Cheap PCPs mean more new cars, more new cars means more used cars. More used car supply means you need more demand (which isn't there because of cheap PCPs), lower prices, or a restricted supply of used cars into the market. If every one of those 295 quid Golf Rs from a while back was dropped straight into the market at the end of their contracts I'd venture it'd be worse than leaving them in a field and drip feeding them into showrooms via the auction houses.

[j1mmy]

Well with this flood of ex lease cars that will come on to the Market surely that will reduce there 2nd hand value?

[swisstoni]

j1mmy said:

Well with this flood of ex lease cars that will come on to the Market surely that will reduce there 2nd hand value?

That’s the thing though; it never happens.
Otherwise every man and his dog would be riding around in 3 year old white Fiat 500s and Golfs for 2 bob.

[watchnut]

For the OP, I have a 2006 MX5 that I bought from a main dealer in 2012 I paid £8000 for it, it had 21k on the clock, hard top with it (2.0L) a/c, and was in good nick with full main dealer history.

You have not said what you were trying to sell it for, or what you got for it. But, I suspect it was around the 4-6K mark? How many miles on the clock? did it still have a full main dealer history?....Do folk still pay for a full service history?......looking at the MOT history will also tell folk like me who know little of cars that if it has had "advisories" or failed an MOT it is likely to not have been well looked after.....so I will maybe look elsewhere.?

I am not fussed by miles a car with motorway miles, it would be better long term than a car parked on the drive doing 6 k a year around town by a "one female owner" driving it around in 2nd gear all day

I feel for you trying to earn a living, but us punters are trying to score a deal as well. My son bought a 1.2 L Polo recently for £5k. ( 8 years old 71k on clock) The small "indi" gave him a 3 month warranty, and discounted him £200 off the price cause he used to work there on a saturday morning shamming off the dew. It was a deal both were happy with, we would go to them again for a car cause we trust them, and it looks like they get a reasonable turn over of cars. I think a lot of it is the car, with the right customer at the right price.

Many have said earlier that the "throw away society" expects it in a car, bugger the repayments it's like a mobile phone contract, sky sports deal, store card repayments. The country is racking up massive debts, all unsecured, and if I go bankrupt who cares?

Many in the south in particular can't afford to buy a house, or rent, and live at home paying peanuts to mum and dad for rent so can afford the car repayments on these daft deals on really low miles per year.

I saw a driving school deal the other day offering me a daft deal where I could do 9k a year.......bloody hell I did nearly 30k last year, and for 2 days a week I do "fleet" work where I don't use my car....... i expect the public, like a friend of my daughters don't look at the "small" print and see the pit falls of these deals.....he ran up his miles for the year, so can't "afford" to use his car now to avoid the penalties of some "x" pence a mile

As for al the second hand cars going to Ireland......who buys them all, the population over there is tiny, and once out of the bigger cities there is no one there........ I know I went there in June for a drive around the Atlantic coast it was a PH wet dream!

Also in southern Ireland the cars are in KM per hour....so is someone paying for the clocks to be changed?

When I go "oop" North I see so many more new cars on the roads driven by youngsters than down on the South coast where I live, so where do the 3/4 year old cars go from up there?

these finance deals don't look good to me, I like owning my car, I can dispose of it when and how I like. If I get a bank loan, and they can be cheap enough now, I can sell the car, pay it off and start again. I bough a new V70 in 1999 for £18,500 a good deal. We still have it on 224,000 miles, my wife loves it as her daily driver. It looks like we have had it for £81.14 a month at about 12k a year on the clock....bargain still doing about 45mpg, and easily one of the more comfortable cars to drive, not the most fun, but great all round. It maybe worth about £300-£500 on a sale to someone on e-bay, but worth maybe several thousands on a "scrappage" deal (i should have to read the small print).....to us it is still worth the money we paid for it when I was made redundant ! Some of my friends have had several cars in the years since we bought it, so god knows how much they have spent over us. So for the OP although I may not be good for your trade, I would still look for a decent car well picked from an "expert" like you,. and prepared nicely, who knows I would be back again when i required a new car if you have not gone bust

And why with a summer like we have just had would anyone not want an MX5?

[Deep Thought]

indapendentlee said:

Deep Thought said:

Olivergt said:

indapendentlee said:

swisstoni said:

This ‘where do all the old lease cars go and why aren’t the s/h prices at rock bottom’ question has come up a few times over the years.

If cars can’t be re-leased or sold for a good price I would not be surprised if they weren’t being disappeared by those with a vested interest in there not being a good supply of cheap 3 year old cars about.

Just an idea - I’ve got no proof whatsoever.

They sit at airfields until the market requires them - unsustainable.

That's quite a claim. Do you have any evidence to support it?

I can tell you that in 2014 about 50,000 cars came to Ireland from the UK and with the pound dropping in value this has increased over the last few years as well.

(Figures for 2014 can be found here : https://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublicat... )

I will see if I can get any newer figures as well.

Found some later figures...

Looks like around 97,000 in 2017

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-ser...

Edited by Olivergt on Tuesday 14th August 10:56

Its a half truth. They sit around for a period of time until they are ready to go to the appropriate auction - that may be days or weeks. Given the amount of capital tied up in them, its in noones interest to have them sitting around any longer than required.

This is probably more accurate than my admittedly somewhat sensational way of phrasing it, although I do think we are in an unsustainable cycle. The manufacturers are just as considerate of how they bring used/returned cars back into the market as they are with new cars - the used car values influence the residuals that support cheap PCPs.

Cheap PCPs mean more new cars, more new cars means more used cars. More used car supply means you need more demand (which isn't there because of cheap PCPs), lower prices, or a restricted supply of used cars into the market. If every one of those 295 quid Golf Rs from a while back was dropped straight into the market at the end of their contracts I'd venture it'd be worse than leaving them in a field and drip feeding them into showrooms via the auction houses.

I think cheap PCPs at the moment are only being bolstered by low interest rates. Residual values are being set shockingly low, its only a matter of time before (when interest rates rise) that turns in to unpalatable monthly payments too.

[anonymous-user]

[redacted]

[nikaiyo2]

I love these threads.

I drive a Montego it only cost me 14 B&H and a packet of Quavers in 1996 any one who has ever paid more than 18 Silk Cut and a toffee crisp for any car is a fool and is going to bankrupt the country. Am I doing it right?

I genuinely don’t get why people post “I drive an (insert old car) it only costs X.” Is this meant to be news? Stop the presses buying a brand new car costs more than buying a second hand one.
fk me I never realised, the slick in the dealership must have used his spiv magic on me. If only I had known that I did not need to pay whatever I do for a new car and I could have bought a decade old one for less... bd.

I love PCP it’s brilliant, I get a new car every 2 or 3 years for an amount I can afford each month. Tell me what is not to love? Ok I might pay a few £ more than had I paid cash or used a bank loan... It’s like anything there is a cost associated with choices.
I love not having to be concerned about the car, small ding, don’t care, scuffed wheel, oh well, worry about getting swirls on paint from a car wash, nope.

[Quavers]

In 2015 I bought a 2004 audi a6 with V6 petrol engine. 50k, 2 owners full history. I paid £5k. I added another 10k in three years and looked after the car - servicing, any repairs that were required, fitted good quality tyres. In july I sold it for £2900. Good quality cars will always sell - even old ones.

[roadsmash]

MC Bodge said:

A car will typically run for over 100K miles with normal servicing, without the sort of problems that a warranty will cover.

A comment somewhat bias to your own experience. I trust that this is your experience and I do not doubt it, although I maintain that you are one of the lucky ones. It also 100% depends on what car you buy. On a TVR for example, would you have the same opinion?

Joey Deacon said:

But the Swift is not £100 a month, all of these "only £100 a month, cheaper than running a shed" deals actually cost £200 a month when you take into account the first payment and document fee. Plus the majority of these cheap deals are on a 5/6 or 8K per year mile allowance which is not really any use to anyone.

So you are realistically looking at £4800 to drive a pretty basic car for 16k miles/2 years with nothing to show at the end. I could easily buy a half decent car for £4800 that I know would last me way longer than two years.

Firstly, congratulations on running the Megane for as little as you did. Looks like you bought a great car, after doing some thorough research.

Perhaps if you did the same level of due-diligence on leasing you would find a better deal...

The Swift does not lease well, the deals are not good, and is therefore a poor example. In the same way that there are poor and decent deals on outright purchases.

There may be a compelling deal that comes out in the future for a Swift, but there isn't one yet. So I would not recommend anyone lease a Swift. UNLESS someone really really wants one, doesn't want to own it, and just wants to get rid before they go travelling in 3 years (one example).

In answer to your point though, most leases now can be adjusted to have a 3 month deposit. PCP's can be even more flexible. In fact, my other half PCP'd a Vauxhall Viva (terrible car) a few years ago, and paid £100 a month with NO deposit. Had multiple problems in the first 3 years and every single one was covered by warranty... for £100 a month!

The deals are out there. You just have to look. Of course, those not interested in leasing will not spend the time doing the digging.

[rallycross]

nikaiyo2 said:

I love these threads.

.

Well you've not done a very good job of reading any of this thread as it is not about that its a wider topic - have normal people run out of money for a cheap car in 2018.

[Wooda80]

rallycross said:

Well you've not done a very good job of reading any of this thread as it is not about that its a wider topic - have normal people run out of money for a cheap car in 2018.

And 10 pages of anecdotal experiences in, we are no wiser.

In macro terms, we are currently in a period where people appear to have plenty of disposable income. As such, amongst other consumer choices, more are choosing to pay for cars out of income rather than out of savings and so are opting for new(er) cars paid for on finance schemes.

Everything is cyclical and eventually some ( but not all ) people will look to reduce their monthly outgoings and some ( but not all ) will choose to forego the monthly car payment in lieu of an older cheap car, paid for out of savings.

In micro terms, if the OP has 1 or 5 or 10 used cars to sell then he should have no trouble finding a buyer for each car provided that the condition and price of those cars is attractive.

Being able to source stock in the right condition that can be sold at an attractive price and still show a profit is the hard bit. Some will succeed and some won't.

[MC Bodge]

roadsmash said:

MC Bodge said:

A car will typically run for over 100K miles with normal servicing, without the sort of problems that a warranty will cover.

A comment somewhat bias to your own experience. I trust that this is your experience and I do not doubt it, although I maintain that you are one of the lucky ones. It also 100% depends on what car you buy. On a TVR for example, would you have the same opinion?

It is my experience... and that of the friends and family of mine who do similar to me.

We were talking about family cars, and I did qualify it with buying cars that are not known for problems. Not notoriously unreliable sports cars from Blackpool (whether they are or not) -That would be silly

I stand by the claim that family cars from the past 10-15 years will typically go beyond 100K miles without major issue, other than normal wear of brakes and the like, if serviced properly (and preferably warmed up before driving hard, changing gear smoothly. Although some people don't even do that)