RE: Next AMG C63 to go four-cylinder
Discussion
Welshbeef said:
One of the AMGs USP is the handbuilt engines
Another the huge power
Another the noise
Another the aggressive looks - though not as strong as the Audi RS
The history of the V8 and V12’s
It will be very interesting to see how such a brand changes given EV only future. I’m not sure how any of the above can be retained (looks aside).
Same issue could be put against so many other brands too
Nah, those USPS are for beards like us on PH, we are a fraction of the market. Another the huge power
Another the noise
Another the aggressive looks - though not as strong as the Audi RS
The history of the V8 and V12’s
It will be very interesting to see how such a brand changes given EV only future. I’m not sure how any of the above can be retained (looks aside).
Same issue could be put against so many other brands too
The 4-pot is a big seller and the masses think AMG is relevant because it’s plastered across the interior / exterior of the cars specced with bigger wheels and a different front bumper... Chap I used to work with mentioned he’d just placed an order for an AMG Merc. So off I hurried to excitingly recheck our car company list... oh, he’s gone for the E220 CDI AMG...
AMG as a brand was built on a heritage which will ‘evolve’.
Half the cylinder count, half the noise, half the appeal. It could have an electric motor that boosted it to the equivalent of 1000hp and it wouldn't float my boat.
Just like all the figures pedalled around for electric vehicles, it can be a magnitude 'better'. But manufacturers fail to see the emotional appeal of a proper V8.
Just like electric trains are better in every way, but you don't see them being lovingly restored by train enthusiasts around the world. There is an emotional element, a connection that is not going to compensate by way of an improvement in mpg/acceleration.
And this is Pistonheads, clue is in the name so the more pistons, the better in my book.
Maybe one day they will start BrushlessMotorheads and we can get away from dreary EV chat
Just like all the figures pedalled around for electric vehicles, it can be a magnitude 'better'. But manufacturers fail to see the emotional appeal of a proper V8.
Just like electric trains are better in every way, but you don't see them being lovingly restored by train enthusiasts around the world. There is an emotional element, a connection that is not going to compensate by way of an improvement in mpg/acceleration.
And this is Pistonheads, clue is in the name so the more pistons, the better in my book.
Maybe one day they will start BrushlessMotorheads and we can get away from dreary EV chat
Uggers said:
Half the cylinder count, half the noise, half the appeal. It could have an electric motor that boosted it to the equivalent of 1000hp and it wouldn't float my boat.
Just like all the figures pedalled around for electric vehicles, it can be a magnitude 'better'. But manufacturers fail to see the emotional appeal of a proper V8.
Just like electric trains are better in every way, but you don't see them being lovingly restored by train enthusiasts around the world. There is an emotional element, a connection that is not going to compensate by way of an improvement in mpg/acceleration.
And this is Pistonheads, clue is in the name so the more pistons, the better in my book.
Maybe one day they will start BrushlessMotorheads and we can get away from dreary EV chat
Eloquently put, although the manufacturers of cars that range from the dread to desirable (in Mercedes’ case) pin more on the dull, competent mass sellers, and rightly so. Besides, there are, and will continue to be, manufacturers that only make those V8s that people get emotionally involved with. Just like all the figures pedalled around for electric vehicles, it can be a magnitude 'better'. But manufacturers fail to see the emotional appeal of a proper V8.
Just like electric trains are better in every way, but you don't see them being lovingly restored by train enthusiasts around the world. There is an emotional element, a connection that is not going to compensate by way of an improvement in mpg/acceleration.
And this is Pistonheads, clue is in the name so the more pistons, the better in my book.
Maybe one day they will start BrushlessMotorheads and we can get away from dreary EV chat
I said before that there’s a modicum of truth in this report - not only are the big companies going to find it hard to continue meeting targets for green stuff, they’re also going to try and second guess which piece of draconian legislation comes next, and what its impact will be. Tiny volume excesses like the 63s will invariably be the first to be sacrificed.
A1VDY said:
loudlashadjuster said:
Nah, can't see it. No way would they jump from 8 to 4 cyl in a single generation. You can see them moving to a beefed-up C53 setup for the C63, maybe, but no way to a 4-cyl. It's pretty much their USP.
Be amazed if this Autocar "scoop" isn't just conjecture based on some badly-translated or poorly understood German
Porsche now use a four potty in the cayman so why not a four to replace eight in a c63? Be amazed if this Autocar "scoop" isn't just conjecture based on some badly-translated or poorly understood German
If power output is near the same what difference does it make?
TX.
Max_Torque said:
Captain_Chaos said:
when you're cruising or just stuck behind somebody there is no penalty to having 6.2 litres up front..
I think it's important to highlight just how un-true this statement actually is, when compared to what is possible with an EV powertrain!As a petrolhead you might think that 30 odd mpg is ok, but for 99.9% of people who don't care about cars, when under the same circumstances a car that returns 300 mpg becomes normal, it's going to be a really hard sell justifying the big V8........
k about MPG though so what is your point? V8's sell in small numbers anyway (and always have?) but are still bought so there is demand for them. People saying that there is no demand are simply wrong, it is the current and future Regs that are killing these cars off.Point in case, I like V8's and drive one now. If they put a 4 pot in there I simply will not buy it. Perhaps that is the End Goal though as eventually the big engined cars are no longer made which of course will Save The Planet.
TX.
sideshowfred said:
Whilst it's a shame that they look to be getting rid of the big motors, how many of you complaining would be willing to put your hands in your pocket and fork out for a brand new V8 C63?
I think there is so much pressure on manufacturers to reduce the emissions across their ranges and probably a very limited amount of people willing to pay out for a brand new one.
Just to add, i've never owned anything with more than 4 cylinders and probably never will, but it's getting more and more frowned upon to have these big and very thirsty engines. Now a 4 pot with hybrid tech, that sounds pretty good to me if it can deliver in the thrills.
Yet the UK Govt removed CO2 based VED^ just a few years ago I think there is so much pressure on manufacturers to reduce the emissions across their ranges and probably a very limited amount of people willing to pay out for a brand new one.
Just to add, i've never owned anything with more than 4 cylinders and probably never will, but it's getting more and more frowned upon to have these big and very thirsty engines. Now a 4 pot with hybrid tech, that sounds pretty good to me if it can deliver in the thrills.
TX.
^apart from Year 1 pedants.
Terminator X said:
sideshowfred said:
Whilst it's a shame that they look to be getting rid of the big motors, how many of you complaining would be willing to put your hands in your pocket and fork out for a brand new V8 C63?
I think there is so much pressure on manufacturers to reduce the emissions across their ranges and probably a very limited amount of people willing to pay out for a brand new one.
Just to add, i've never owned anything with more than 4 cylinders and probably never will, but it's getting more and more frowned upon to have these big and very thirsty engines. Now a 4 pot with hybrid tech, that sounds pretty good to me if it can deliver in the thrills.
Yet the UK Govt removed CO2 based VED^ just a few years ago I think there is so much pressure on manufacturers to reduce the emissions across their ranges and probably a very limited amount of people willing to pay out for a brand new one.
Just to add, i've never owned anything with more than 4 cylinders and probably never will, but it's getting more and more frowned upon to have these big and very thirsty engines. Now a 4 pot with hybrid tech, that sounds pretty good to me if it can deliver in the thrills.
TX.
^apart from Year 1 pedants.
The MPG argument is also an interesting one. As was said a few posts ago as petrolhead's we consider 30mpg to be very good out of a V8. But how can you defend it against a car that will do 60 maybe 70 mpg on a long journey. Joe public won't care that a V8 sounds better as in theory you are not going to get there any quicker, you just end up wasting more fuel for the sake of it. Again, that's something that the majority of the car buying public won't understand.
DoubleD said:
A44RON said:
DoubleD said:
Its a lack of demand. If people were queuing up to buy them Mercedes would make them.
It's not a lack of demand at all, it's increasingly stringent forced emissions regulations.Edited by A44RON on Friday 18th October 04:09
Mercedes is a business, they make things that are profitable. If they thought that it would be more profitable to make a large engined car over a small one then thats what they would make.
There isnt enough demand for these large engined cars to make them profitable.
The market currently for used C63s is still healthy.
sideshowfred said:
I didn't say it was from a VED issue and that's a very narrow way of looking at it. There is more than just the UK market to consider and globally i think more and more people will not understand the need for a huge gas guzzling engine.
There is no need for it. This has nothing to do with need and everything to do with want.sideshowfred said:
The MPG argument is also an interesting one. As was said a few posts ago as petrolhead's we consider 30mpg to be very good out of a V8. But how can you defend it against a car that will do 60 maybe 70 mpg on a long journey.
Agreed. 30mpg (and I have achieved that in the C63) is indefensible as an argument. No one buys a C63 or equivalent V8 for its frugality.sideshowfred said:
Joe public won't care that a V8 sounds better as in theory you are not going to get there any quicker, you just end up wasting more fuel for the sake of it. Again, that's something that the majority of the car buying public won't understand.
What does Joe Public or 'the majority of the car-buying public' have to do with me? One of the glorious things about the world we live in is choice. I'll buy what I want from what's available on the market and, not to put too fine a point on it, Joe Public can fk off 
Edited by Tim bo on Wednesday 23 October 08:27
Tim bo said:
What does Joe Public or 'the majority of the car-buying public' have to do with me? One of the glorious things about the world we live in is choice. I'll buy what I want from what's available on the market and, not to put too fine a point on it, Joe Public can fk off
What does Joe Public have to do with you? Their buying power is what dictates what cars are available for you to buy from major / successful manufacturers unfortunately k off 
Obviously if there are enough people with similar tastes to you (a sort of mini Joe Private perhaps
) then there'll be niche manufacturers that make cars to your tastes, but they aren't going to be cheap.Or buy used, problem solved and indeed Joe Public can f
k right off 
SturdyHSV said:
What does Joe Public have to do with you? Their buying power is what dictates what cars are available for you to buy from major / successful manufacturers unfortunately
Obviously if there are enough people with similar tastes to you (a sort of mini Joe Private perhaps ) then there'll be niche manufacturers that make cars to your tastes, but they aren't going to be cheap.
Or buy used, problem solved and indeed Joe Public can fk right off
I like mini Joe Private Obviously if there are enough people with similar tastes to you (a sort of mini Joe Private perhaps
) then there'll be niche manufacturers that make cars to your tastes, but they aren't going to be cheap.Or buy used, problem solved and indeed Joe Public can f
k right off 
Yes indeed my comment is largely tongue-in-cheek. I'm well aware that the days of these sorts of ICEs, and indeed ICEs as a whole, are numbered. The world moves on, and moves to the beating drum of the buying public.
I'll continue to enjoy this increasingly frowned-upon large-capacity low-mpg engine segment of the market while it exists, and will move on when it no longer does.
SturdyHSV said:
Tim bo said:
What does Joe Public or 'the majority of the car-buying public' have to do with me? One of the glorious things about the world we live in is choice. I'll buy what I want from what's available on the market and, not to put too fine a point on it, Joe Public can fk off
What does Joe Public have to do with you? Their buying power is what dictates what cars are available for you to buy from major / successful manufacturers unfortunately k off Obviously if there are enough people with similar tastes to you (a sort of mini Joe Private perhaps
) then there'll be niche manufacturers that make cars to your tastes, but they aren't going to be cheap.Or buy used, problem solved and indeed Joe Public can f
k right off TX.
It's sad, but also inevitable.
Can't decide whether governments will increasingly tax the st out of ICEs and the public fall in love with EV, meaning the values of used big petrols will slide, or there will be enough enthusiasts in future demanding some nostalgic V-angular fossil burning to keep the market buoyant.
Can't decide whether governments will increasingly tax the s
t out of ICEs and the public fall in love with EV, meaning the values of used big petrols will slide, or there will be enough enthusiasts in future demanding some nostalgic V-angular fossil burning to keep the market buoyant. Terminator X said:
Why don't you and others get this, there is plenty of demand for V8's it is the Regs that are forcing the manufacturers to stop building them. Do you honestly think that someone who buys today's C63 is demanding a 4 pot version?
TX.
Well, it's a mixture of the two really - demand and regulation. They are not mutually exclusive and one reflects the other. Regulation changes because people's mores change, their views change. What people buy (ie demand) changes accordingly.TX.
Laws in general and direct regulation in particular follow the social mores of the day. Today's social mores are that gas-guzzling = bad. That was not the case 20,30, 40 years ago, but it is today. MPG has become the motoring byword of recent-times, and even that is now being replaced with conversations around battery-capacities and electrical-output.
The machinations of law and regulation are slow but they do catchup. People nowadays are fully aware of climate-change, what causes it, what the impacts are, what it means for the future. Negligible though it actually may be in the wider context of climate change, large ICEs are viewed by the public as a malign contributing factor. Regulation is following that social more, as is demand, and will curtail.
Car manufacture then naturally follows.
Terminator X said:
The V8 guys / gals couldn't give a fk about MPG though so what is your point?
TX.
Remember when everyone smoked and you could smoke everywhere? Yup, you might not care that you are giving yourself lung cancer, but everyone around you doesn't want it, so the current law prevents you smoking for your own "personal enjoyment" when it causes other people harm.k about MPG though so what is your point? TX.
Give it as little as 10 years, when everyone is doing 200 mpg, with zero tailpipe emissions and quiet cars, driving past in a roaring V8 doing 30 mpg is going to become socially unacceptable as lighting up a fag in a crowded train carriage is today............
Max_Torque said:
Terminator X said:
The V8 guys / gals couldn't give a fk about MPG though so what is your point?
TX.
Remember when everyone smoked and you could smoke everywhere? Yup, you might not care that you are giving yourself lung cancer, but everyone around you doesn't want it, so the current law prevents you smoking for your own "personal enjoyment" when it causes other people harm.k about MPG though so what is your point? TX.
Give it as little as 10 years, when everyone is doing 200 mpg, with zero tailpipe emissions and quiet cars, driving past in a roaring V8 doing 30 mpg is going to become socially unacceptable as lighting up a fag in a crowded train carriage is today............
Max_Torque said:
Remember when everyone smoked and you could smoke everywhere? Yup, you might not care that you are giving yourself lung cancer, but everyone around you doesn't want it, so the current law prevents you smoking for your own "personal enjoyment" when it causes other people harm.
Give it as little as 10 years, when everyone is doing 200 mpg, with zero tailpipe emissions and quiet cars, driving past in a roaring V8 doing 30 mpg is going to become socially unacceptable as lighting up a fag in a crowded train carriage is today............
Total nonsense.Give it as little as 10 years, when everyone is doing 200 mpg, with zero tailpipe emissions and quiet cars, driving past in a roaring V8 doing 30 mpg is going to become socially unacceptable as lighting up a fag in a crowded train carriage is today............
TX.
Terminator X said:
Max_Torque said:
Remember when everyone smoked and you could smoke everywhere? Yup, you might not care that you are giving yourself lung cancer, but everyone around you doesn't want it, so the current law prevents you smoking for your own "personal enjoyment" when it causes other people harm.
Give it as little as 10 years, when everyone is doing 200 mpg, with zero tailpipe emissions and quiet cars, driving past in a roaring V8 doing 30 mpg is going to become socially unacceptable as lighting up a fag in a crowded train carriage is today............
Total nonsense.Give it as little as 10 years, when everyone is doing 200 mpg, with zero tailpipe emissions and quiet cars, driving past in a roaring V8 doing 30 mpg is going to become socially unacceptable as lighting up a fag in a crowded train carriage is today............
TX.
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