RE: Order books open for all-new Defender 90

[British Beef]

oilit said:

no 90 configurator on their website - 110 only :-(

The frightening thing is that in 1995 and 1998 I was buying new Range Rover Petrols for ~£40k - now you can't even get a Defender for that money...


I must be getting old....

Although I suspect this will be as fast, far more efficient, more reliable and probably more luxurius onroad and better offroad than the range rover of the 90s.

All speculation of course, would be an interesting comparison.

Certainly much more Range Rover comfort than die hard Defender simplicity!!

[oilit]

British Beef said:

Although I suspect this will be as fast, far more efficient, more reliable and probably more luxurius onroad and better offroad than the range rover of the 90s.

All speculation of course, would be an interesting comparison.

Certainly much more Range Rover comfort than die hard Defender simplicity!!

It's funny, as an aside the two P38's I had went to 100k miles each in less than 24 months (as did the disco ES), and I never had any problems with them - the L322 though had three diffs replaced after failing on the outside of the motorway in 9 months - I didn't keep it to see if it failed again...

The defender I have (50th) has never let me down - but for some reason i am more forgiving of it's foibles than I was of the RR etc.

Maybe that's why there is so much love for the old defender ? But you coudlnt do this with the old defender

https://youtu.be/u7Oc4g_CtZc

Edited by oilit on Friday 28th February 19:53

[AB1canotbee]

Osinjak said:

AB1canotbee said:

I think that they should have dreamt up another name instead of Defender, as this is not a proper replacement for a rugged of- as it will not be able to take the knocks and abuse like the old/current car as well as being "easy" to keep going with minimal tools etc in a conventional Land Rover environment.As others have mentioned , this is purely aimed at the Urban crowd like many of its contemporaries.I was hoping that Land Rover at least would have understood that there is a market for "simple" affordable tough off-road vehicles....still.
Saying all that however,these will sell very well I believe, so good luck to Land Rover...although I for one will not be buying as ,apart from anything else , it looks like it would be more at home in a kitchen along side the microwave and toaster etc ?!!!

Neither is this:

Yes....just add wheels and put a big price tag on it and........PRESTO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ChocolateFrog]

You'd have a house full of LR branded kit included in the price.

[Cold]

Ready for my own modifications and additions:

[1974foggy]

Miserablegit said:

You have 10,500 posts
Are they all as st as this?

Gees - everything ok at home?

[swisstoni]

I think it’s quite impressive that you can get of these for £40k and for it not look like it is missing too much of the possible £70k’s worth of extras.

Edited by swisstoni on Saturday 7th March 14:32

[The G-man]

Hmmm, just asked for my deposit to be returned, placed in Jan 19, it looks lovely and i have owned and enjoyed 2 x defender 90’s, disco, 1, 2 & 3, RR 1997, 2003, 2015 and 2 x Fpace both handed back plus ahem a few townie freelancers.

My opinion is that the JLR dev budget and volume mean that cannot rival the Germans on build quality, both F-paces were great to drive, 3ltr V6 petrols but the IT was shockingly bad, and the first one one was tripled incontinent in the first week, water, oil and petrol, the refund process was very well handled.

I then bought a second hand 2.5 year old 4.4 V8 diesel full fat Rangie to enjoy whilst i waited to but the new defender, oh boy, bought at 30k miles, first MOT 4K of suspension rebuild noted as advisories within 12 months, plus it had a bad diesel fuel leak etc..

Wonderful cars, badly built, with too much tech they don’t have the volume to invest in solving the quality issues.....

I really hope its a great success but after 14 LR’s for me and my family over 30+ years i can say I am done.... that is not without a great deal of sadness.

I just wish i had kept my rusting 1985 G-Wagon, now that would go anywhere...

I hope i am proved wrong but i was no longer prepared to make a £50+k bet to find out

[richardgreenfields]

Soooo expensive, especially when you can purchase my 2003 Defender 130 TD5 Crew-Cab Pick-up, for slightly less than £15K!
This can be customised, or not, to virtually any spec', for not-a-lot-of-money - BINGO!

[andrew-jhq39]

I'd have no use for this whatsoever but soooo want one, best looking car released in the last 5, maybe 10 years

[25th QV]

10 Points to anyone who can find any images or video of the boot of the 90 version with the seats in the normal position? (not folded as on the configurator).

Call me cynical, but have Land Rover done a very good job of preventing such images being released either in stills or Youtube videos.

Please, prove me wrong....

[anonymous-user]

25th QV said:

10 Points to anyone who can find any images or video of the boot of the 90 version with the seats in the normal position? (not folded as on the configurator).

Call me cynical, but have Land Rover done a very good job of preventing such images being released either in stills or Youtube videos.

Please, prove me wrong....

Yes, google it, click images.

[25th QV]

Just Google Image Searched "New Land Rover Defender 90 Boot Space" and the only image I can find is this one, which has half the heats down.

Please could you post a better image with all the seats up?

[jeremy996]

Grenadier sent me an update - if i can afford it, this may be my next new vehicle; everything the blingy Defender 90/110 isn't.

http://view.grenadier.ineos.com/?qs=4ce966d3f80b6f...

[jeremy996]

ash73 said:

Strange website, there aren't any pictures of it... Or is it such a tough 4x4 nobody cares what it looks like, they just want to see ladder chassis porn.

As JLR lost the attempt to copyright the shape of the old defender, I'd guess it may look something like that! Jim Radcliffe tried to buy the Defender line but JLR refused.

INEOS Grenadier are releasing details very carefully, we know where the engines are coming from, we know where the axles are coming from, we can guess where the frame is coming from and we know where final assembly will be. Transmission? no. Cost? no. Body styles? no.

There have been suggestions that the vehicle will have on-board diagnostics, so it might be maintainable away from a dealer network. If it does, I for one would be delighted. I want a durable motor vehicle - capable of maintenance like a stately home or vintage yacht. My old Defenders are close to that, but many of the after-market parts are pants; it would be nice to have a vehicle with door seals that keep water out and a HVAC system better than a 200Tdi.

[Triumph 2500S]

This product is grossly overpriced for the market for which I believe it was intended and too far away from the original concept.

It may well only be bought by the Chelsea Tractor brigade rather than the off road farming style consumers of old.

Time will tell in sales!

[anonymous-user]

Triumph 2500S said:

This product is grossly overpriced for the market for which I believe it was intended and too far away from the original concept.

It may well only be bought by the Chelsea Tractor brigade rather than the off road farming style consumers of old.

Time will tell in sales!

Insightful post as well as original, I hope JLR take heed.

[Mikebentley]

Coin Slot. said:

Triumph 2500S said:

This product is grossly overpriced for the market for which I believe it was intended and too far away from the original concept.

It may well only be bought by the Chelsea Tractor brigade rather than the off road farming style consumers of old.

Time will tell in sales!

Insightful post as well as original, I hope JLR take heed.

Not another. A fine choice for a first post. You forgot classics like “can’t be hosed out” “ too many excuses” etc. etc. Boring.

[Mikebentley]

Should say “too many ecu’s “ damn auto correct

[anonymous-user]

ash73 said:

jeremy996 said:

Grenadier sent me an update - if i can afford it, this may be my next new vehicle; everything the blingy Defender 90/110 isn't.

http://view.grenadier.ineos.com/?qs=4ce966d3f80b6f...

Strange website, there aren't any pictures of it... Or is it such a tough 4x4 nobody cares what it looks like, they just want to see ladder chassis porn.

click through and see how many glaring engineering gaffs you can spot, such as:



"Beam axles provide improved ride comfort"

er no, ride comfort is primarily driven by the ratio of sprung to unsprung mass, so for any given vehicle mass, independant suspension provides a better ride (which is why pretty much all modern passenger vehicles have had independant suspension for the last 20 or so years)


"Box section ladder chassis for maximum stiffness"

er, nope, stiffness is created by carrying loads in the plane they act, not orthagonally. Try this is a piece of paper, pull it length ways, then bend it long ways, see what i mean. This is why all modern passenger vehicles use a unibody construction to allow loads to be carried with the highest stiffness but th e lowest mass. A simple beam in pure bending, rather than triangulated will have to be far heavier and thicker stiffness to create the same stiffness as a unibody.


"Box section chassis for maximum towing capacity"

Why does the chassis affect the towing mass? GTW is set by things like gradeability, brake performance and gear ratio's, and not by chassis strength. As long as the trailer loads are correctly spread into the structure, this has zero impact on GTW.


And my favourite beam axle untruth, the classic for people who don't understand what they are talking about:

"TRACTION YOU CAN TRUST, When one end or side goes up, the opposite pushes into the ground for greater grip"

The only thing that matters in a cross axle situation is the total roll stiffness across that axle. And that can be tuned for ANY suspension geometry. We can make a beam axle so stiff it has zero cross axle articulation, and an independant system so soft the body actually falls over when parked. This is nothing to do with "the other side pushing down"...

But the big reason you don't want live axles these days, is actually because you want a steering rack, and not a steering box.......

Given that is Grenadier isn't going to be cheap (a low volume, heavily engineered niche vehicle) who exactly is the target audience? Sure, lots of beardy off-roaders would love one, but they are knocking around in £3k Disco1's, and haven't got £50k to drop on a toy. Zero dealer or market backup means the utilities ain't going to go anywhere near an expesnive white elephant. The Army (sensibly) isn't interested in soft skinned vehicles any more, so other that a couple of rich Londonites, who is going to buy this vehicle?? (especially when you can just buy a toyota that does everything this Grenadier does already???)