Rural drink-driving

[bigothunter]

deckster said:

Or more visually:



The effects are relatively small at low alcohol levels, but undeniably non-zero. Of course there is a real acceleration in accident risk after 0.08 BAC, but that doesn't mean that there are none below that.

Thank you

[Speed addicted]

bigothunter said:

Speed addicted said:

Small sample size but in the group of people I know the lower limit stopped any of having a pint with a meal, it's just not worth the risk.
Getting caught is unlikely unless you're totally smashed but having any kind of bump on a Saturday night (for instance) is likely to get you breathalysed if the police are involved.
Essentially the lower limit has changed having one pint from 'it'll definitely be ok' to 'it'll probably be ok' for those of us that don't normally drive home pissed.

Obviously the people that think it's fine to drive after 2+ pints are unaffected.

But does this lower 50 limit actually improve safety? Or has it been imposed for other reasons?

Honestly I’d say it was put in place to distance Scotland further from England, rather than any actual safety benefit.
People not drinking at all before driving is more of a (positive) byproduct.

[deckster]

Speed addicted said:

bigothunter said:

But does this lower 50 limit actually improve safety? Or has it been imposed for other reasons?

Honestly I’d say it was put in place to distance Scotland further from England, rather than any actual safety benefit.
People not drinking at all before driving is more of a (positive) byproduct.

I tend to agree that politics plays a decent part in the Scottish limit. But I'd also suggest an element of psychology and an actual desire to move the needle from "just one drink is OK" to "really, don't drink anything".

I know that I personally find it harder to say "OK, I'll stop at one" than I do "Nope, not drinking at all".

[Honeywell]

Killboy said:

So a little bit of extortion helps those illegally worn tires from being reported eh?

I think you will find a fair bit of data on drink driving.

Its hardly extortion. Post and rails don't come for free nor does my labour in banging them in and nailing them up.

But I am a realist. I have children and nieces and nephews and they are all in young farmers. One day it will be one of them causing a hole in someone's hedge and my reasonableness over the years will hopefully have bought me some cosmic karma.

Not involving insurance companies helps everyone because they are such robbing gits to both sides.

[NomduJour]

Killboy said:

Interesting all the studies seem to suggest lack of enforcement being the biggest factor?

Biggest factor? How are you going to police that in the Highlands? And even if you could, how many of the ten pint brigade would you catch versus the bloke minding his own business after a drink with dinner who’s suddenly now a criminal with a ruined life?

[Killboy]

NomduJour said:

Killboy said:

Interesting all the studies seem to suggest lack of enforcement being the biggest factor?

Biggest factor? How are you going to police that in the Highlands? And even if you could, how many of the ten pint brigade would you catch versus the bloke minding his own business after a drink with dinner who’s suddenly now a criminal with a ruined life?

I don't understand the "how are you going to police it" argument. You start by policing it?

And a drink with dinner wouldn't put you over the limit?

[DonkeyApple]

Killboy said:

NomduJour said:

Killboy said:

Interesting all the studies seem to suggest lack of enforcement being the biggest factor?

Biggest factor? How are you going to police that in the Highlands? And even if you could, how many of the ten pint brigade would you catch versus the bloke minding his own business after a drink with dinner who’s suddenly now a criminal with a ruined life?

I don't understand the "how are you going to police it" argument. You start by policing it?

And a drink with dinner wouldn't put you over the limit?

You want to properly police the Highlands to get all the drunk drivers? Really? That's going to cost the English taxpayer an absolute fortune and require a Highland police force larger than the Met. The English army couldn't even stop them from wearing skirts and they had guns and gibbets.

[Hitch]

NomduJour said:

Biggest factor?

I think the biggest factor is that there is little alternative apart from abstinence. There is no public transport within three miles of us and even then that's one bus an hour that finishes at ten. If you want a taxi you have to book it days in advance and the cost is about £8 a mile.

I'm in the none and drive camp, or we leave a car and hike home!

[Rockettvr]

Sometimes it goes wrong
Our neighbour on the Wild West coast of Ireland informed one evening on her way driving past that she was off out to celebrate her 84th birthday and that she might get “a bit wobbly”
We had no idea she intended driving home thinking she’d get a lift
Next morning she was in the passenger seat of a friend’s car with her arm in a sling going the 25miles to the nearest hospital ( hairline fracture only)
She’d hit the telegraph pole in her jeep on her way home shearing it clear off at the bottom
Strangely the pole is halfway along the longest straightest bit of road for bloody miles

[Killboy]

DonkeyApple said:

You want to properly police the Highlands to get all the drunk drivers? Really? That's going to cost the English taxpayer an absolute fortune and require a Highland police force larger than the Met. The English army couldn't even stop them from wearing skirts and they had guns and gibbets.

What are you talking about? Trying to catch every last one? No. But the argument that you changed the law and it doesn't help hardly stands tall of you don't at least back it up somehow.

All this hyperboleis hilarious.

[DonkeyApple]

Killboy said:

DonkeyApple said:

You want to properly police the Highlands to get all the drunk drivers? Really? That's going to cost the English taxpayer an absolute fortune and require a Highland police force larger than the Met. The English army couldn't even stop them from wearing skirts and they had guns and gibbets.

What are you talking about? Trying to catch every last one? No. But the argument that you changed the law and it doesn't help hardly stands tall of you don't at least back it up somehow.

All this hyperboleis hilarious.

Hmmm.

[biggbn]

Why do people NEED a drink with dinner? What is this hard wired need to consume alcohol? If you are driving don't do it, that seems like a really simple and easy to follow set of rules, no?

[SpeckledJim]

biggbn said:

Why do people NEED a drink with dinner? What is this hard wired need to consume alcohol? If you are driving don't do it, that seems like a really simple and easy to follow set of rules, no?

If there’s a negligible difference between none and one then what is the issue?

[biggbn]

SpeckledJim said:

biggbn said:

Why do people NEED a drink with dinner? What is this hard wired need to consume alcohol? If you are driving don't do it, that seems like a really simple and easy to follow set of rules, no?

If there’s a negligible difference between none and one then what is the issue?

Is there? For everyone? 100% of the time? Is there then a 'negligible' difference between one, and two...maybe dependent on what one has had to eat, how tired one is, what other chemical (natural) balances and imbalances are at play in ones system, mood etc... I know some weekends I have one glass of wine and feel a difference, I know sone weekends a bottle doesn't. I never drive in either case. Why would I? I lose control of what effect that one, two, whatever drinks I have had has on me as soon as I have had them. Why. Take. The. Chance. What earthly extra pleasure does a pint or a glass of wine give me that I can't wait until I don't need to drive?

Only my opinions man, others will disagree, and that's cool!

Edited by biggbn on Thursday 11th August 22:56

[Pit Pony]

DonkeyApple said:

ingenieur said:

This is along similar lines to what I'm debating here.

Potentially the issue at the heart of this is the obsession with easily obtainable evidence which can be relied upon for a prosecution. And prosecution being the panacea for law enforcement.

Police use the breath test to check for alcohol and if they find it in sufficient quantity you're nicked. This is regardless to all other factors.

Many of these stories of rural drunk drivers who habitually / routinely drive with alcohol in their system aren't necessarily more or less dangerous on the roads simply because of this single factor and there isn't conclusive evidence or data because it's unobtainable.

Is the solution for professional
Drink drivers to need to apply for a drink drive license? Would be easy enough to set up. The drink driver simply pays £1000 to book a test, they drink 5 pints of robust Bavarian marching lager and then have their ability to drive tested.

Society doesn't want drink drivers on the road but maybe if they pay to pass a dedicated test that proves they're completely safe then that would be ok?

Brillliant

[Exoticlover]

LimaDelta said:

Anyway, cool story, etc.

What do you mean by that?

[coppice]

biggbn said:

Why do people NEED a drink with dinner? What is this hard wired need to consume alcohol? If you are driving don't do it, that seems like a really simple and easy to follow set of rules, no?

They (ie me ) don't need a drink , in the same way as none of us actually NEED a nice car . But they make the journey or the meal more enjoyable . I can't imagine having an expensive meal out, or an opulent one at home without wine. And no - I don't drink and drive . At least not any more - it was compulsory to do so in the 70s and 80s . Cue panic attacks by millenials ...

[Griffith4ever]

Somerset here. Our local has four guys in every lunch time who have around four pints or more and drive home. It's very common. Loads have a few and drive.

Five and drive is kids stuff. It's seven in Devon.

Only incident we've ever had in all the years I've been here is an Amazon driver killing a walker early in the morning (obvs he wasn't drunk!). Tragic that was.

[SpeckledJim]

biggbn said:

SpeckledJim said:

biggbn said:

Why do people NEED a drink with dinner? What is this hard wired need to consume alcohol? If you are driving don't do it, that seems like a really simple and easy to follow set of rules, no?

If there’s a negligible difference between none and one then what is the issue?

Is there? For everyone? 100% of the time? Is there then a 'negligible' difference between one, and two...maybe dependent on what one has had to eat, how tired one is, what other chemical (natural) balances and imbalances are at play in ones system, mood etc... I know some weekends I have one glass of wine and feel a difference, I know sone weekends a bottle doesn't. I never drive in either case. Why would I? I lose control of what effect that one, two, whatever drinks I have had has on me as soon as I have had them. Why. Take. The. Chance. What earthly extra pleasure does a pint or a glass of wine give me that I can't wait until I don't need to drive?

Only my opinions man, others will disagree, and that's cool!

Edited by biggbn on Thursday 11th August 22:56

You could make the same argument about radios and telephones in cars. You really need to be concentrating. You can't handle John Humphreys or Massive Attack, or an argument with the missus when you need the reactions of a cat.

Why. Take. The. Chance.


(If a glass of wine has a noticeable effect on you sometimes, then by all means refrain. But leave the rest of us to just have a nice time supporting rural pubs and enjoying a proper pint or two. By all means put a bobby at the end of the road to catch the dick who has had six.)

[biggbn]

SpeckledJim said:

biggbn said:

SpeckledJim said:

biggbn said:

Why do people NEED a drink with dinner? What is this hard wired need to consume alcohol? If you are driving don't do it, that seems like a really simple and easy to follow set of rules, no?

If there’s a negligible difference between none and one then what is the issue?

Is there? For everyone? 100% of the time? Is there then a 'negligible' difference between one, and two...maybe dependent on what one has had to eat, how tired one is, what other chemical (natural) balances and imbalances are at play in ones system, mood etc... I know some weekends I have one glass of wine and feel a difference, I know sone weekends a bottle doesn't. I never drive in either case. Why would I? I lose control of what effect that one, two, whatever drinks I have had has on me as soon as I have had them. Why. Take. The. Chance. What earthly extra pleasure does a pint or a glass of wine give me that I can't wait until I don't need to drive?

Only my opinions man, others will disagree, and that's cool!

Edited by biggbn on Thursday 11th August 22:56

You could make the same argument about radios and telephones in cars. You really need to be concentrating. You can't handle John Humphreys or Massive Attack, or an argument with the missus when you need the reactions of a cat.

Why. Take. The. Chance.


(If a glass of wine has a noticeable effect on you sometimes, then by all means refrain. But leave the rest of us to just have a nice time supporting rural pubs and enjoying a proper pint or two. By all means put a bobby at the end of the road to catch the dick who has had six.)

Each to their own brother man. Not for me, don't get the attraction.