RE: Lotus Reveals Exos T125 Hardcore Track Car

[DonkeyApple]

Lord_Colin said:

Great marketing story for Lotus. I know from serious sourcess, that the Exos are more or less sold out. Some guys here just dont get it, Lotus is on the move and they will make a step forward. Belive it or not, Lotus will be back, Lotus is back, just wait and see what they will show in Paris in a few weeks!!!!!

What you don't get is that the company must only make cheap cars for a handfull of enthusiasts living on a bankrupt island off the North coast of Europe.

It is unacceptable that a company should reckognise that there are over 1 billion up and coming, monied people who don't live in a 2 up 2 down the Luftwaffe missed and that any car company looking to expand and grow should contemplate saying hello to these people and building a product for them.

No. The map of the world is pink and all British companies should consider it an honour to die on their arse supplying a few cars to a small number of people who can't afford them.

[andy_s]

Ha - my morning chuckle over with

[cathalm]

DonkeyApple said:

Lord_Colin said:

Great marketing story for Lotus. I know from serious sourcess, that the Exos are more or less sold out. Some guys here just dont get it, Lotus is on the move and they will make a step forward. Belive it or not, Lotus will be back, Lotus is back, just wait and see what they will show in Paris in a few weeks!!!!!

What you don't get is that the company must only make cheap cars for a handfull of enthusiasts living on a bankrupt island off the North coast of Europe.

It is unacceptable that a company should reckognise that there are over 1 billion up and coming, monied people who don't live in a 2 up 2 down the Luftwaffe missed and that any car company looking to expand and grow should contemplate saying hello to these people and building a product for them.

No. The map of the world is pink and all British companies should consider it an honour to die on their arse supplying a few cars to a small number of people who can't afford them.

Capital show old man

[chuntington101]

I would love one..... however for the money i would look to buy a second hand F1 chassis and stick a half decent engine and box in there. Should beable to build one for alot less than 600K!

Chris.

[DonkeyApple]

chuntington101 said:

I would love one..... however for the money i would look to buy a second hand F1 chassis and stick a half decent engine and box in there. Should beable to build one for alot less than 600K!

Chris.

Indeed, but then you wouldn't meet the other 24 wealthy owners at the 5 European bespoke tracdays and so miss out on increasing your business, doing new business and thus making far more than the poxy $1m the toy cost.

The buyers of these cars will almost certainly be very keen to exploit the new social connections the purchase will bring.

[RobM77]

DonkeyApple said:

chuntington101 said:

I would love one..... however for the money i would look to buy a second hand F1 chassis and stick a half decent engine and box in there. Should beable to build one for alot less than 600K!

Chris.

Indeed, but then you wouldn't meet the other 24 wealthy owners at the 5 European bespoke tracdays and so miss out on increasing your business, doing new business and thus making far more than the poxy $1m the toy cost.

The buyers of these cars will almost certainly be very keen to exploit the new social connections the purchase will bring.

In fairness the connections one meets through racing are far greater and more varied. the other racers in your historic F1 or BOSS championship will be the same sort of people as in the T125 "club", and through pitlane connections and the team you'd get the opportunity to meet people in all walks of life, from lawyers and property developers (both useful people to know) in lower formulae, to very talented mechanics in the team/s.

The only downside to racing an old F1 car is that you actually have to race. Some successful businessmen may not like being beaten, and some may just not enjoy chasing lap times, and would rather just get a kick out of driving the car; both of which are fair enough.

Personally, I love the engineering side of racing and the competition, and there would be something missing if I mingled in a marquee drinking non alchoholic cocktails and caviar nibbles before blasting round a track in a T125 on a standard setup without being timed. I'd far rather turn up at a track bleary eyed at 8am, eat some toast in an oily lorry and then not only enjoy the driving, but enjoy developing both the car and my driving to go faster.

[bobberz]

zakelwe said:

This reminds me about the Noble M600 thread.

Considering the UK economy at present that would be most unfortunate. Perhaps that is why we are in this mess though, we don't get behind our local producers like the USA does, cynicism taking over from pride. You sow and you reap.

Personally I think Lotus are doing the right thing by being still in the news with new things. Compare that to Ruf, my favourite Porsche enhancer, they seem to have been usurped by 9FF of late, even if Ruf is perhaps a far more balanced package. It's all about column inches and flavour of the month.



Andy

Unfortunately, the US is actually closer to the UK in that regard. I can't list the number of people here who think that American cars are antiquated barges that get 13mpg. Far more people are happy to drive their Toyota Camrys than buy a Ford Fusion, which is every bit as good, if not better. The number of people here who actually practise the "buy American" ethos are in the minority. Because of this, I could see America's auto industry going the way of Britain's. It's a shame when people lose confidence in their own products.

[RobM77]

bobberz said:

zakelwe said:

This reminds me about the Noble M600 thread.

Considering the UK economy at present that would be most unfortunate. Perhaps that is why we are in this mess though, we don't get behind our local producers like the USA does, cynicism taking over from pride. You sow and you reap.

Personally I think Lotus are doing the right thing by being still in the news with new things. Compare that to Ruf, my favourite Porsche enhancer, they seem to have been usurped by 9FF of late, even if Ruf is perhaps a far more balanced package. It's all about column inches and flavour of the month.



Andy

Unfortunately, the US is actually closer to the UK in that regard. I can't list the number of people here who think that American cars are antiquated barges that get 13mpg. Far more people are happy to drive their Toyota Camrys than buy a Ford Fusion, which is every bit as good, if not better. The number of people here who actually practise the "buy American" ethos are in the minority. Because of this, I could see America's auto industry going the way of Britain's. It's a shame when people lose confidence in their own products.

I don't think the "why not buy an F1 car" comments are cynical. I wouldn't deny that the T125 is a wonderful wonderful thing, I'm sure it's a hoot to drive, and dipping into the moneyed elite who always seem to have money is a brilliant way to turn a profit when the other 99% of people out there are affected by recession, especially your regular customer base (I'm serious, I'm not being sarcastic - if people have inherited a squillion dollars worth of oil, then why not enjoy the money!!). The "why not buy an F1 car" comments are entirely serious, and not with the faintest touch of cynicism. I'd still vote this car a "10" on the PHometer, but that doesn't mean that I'd buy into it - I'd be motor racing instead. As I said above though, racing's not for everyone, and just buying an F1 car to test can be a lonely existence compared with a club such as FXX or T125.

Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 11th August 16:38

[Pingman]

I think its a cracking idea and looks pretty cool too.

Except it costs the same amount as 9 seasons in Formula Palmer Audi. Which I think I'd take instead.

[Twincam16]

Pingman said:

I think its a cracking idea and looks pretty cool too.

Except it costs the same amount as 9 seasons in Formula Palmer Audi. Which I think I'd take instead.

Thing is, in order to do 9 seasons in Formula Palmer Audi, you've got to be a pretty good racing driver as it is.

This will be popular amongst any member of the super-rich who always fancied being an F1 driver.

[Scuffers]

Twincam16 said:

Thing is, in order to do 9 seasons in Formula Palmer Audi, you've got to be a pretty good racing driver as it is.

based on what?

• anybody* can do FPA so long as they have the cash and race licence (nat B I believe?)

[Twincam16]

Scuffers said:

Twincam16 said:

Thing is, in order to do 9 seasons in Formula Palmer Audi, you've got to be a pretty good racing driver as it is.

based on what?

• anybody* can do FPA so long as they have the cash and race licence (nat B I believe?)

But surely it'd get a bit demoralising constantly being beaten by people destined for better things? And when all's said and done, it's still not an F1 car.

[nsmith1180]

Scuffers said:

Twincam16 said:

Thing is, in order to do 9 seasons in Formula Palmer Audi, you've got to be a pretty good racing driver as it is.

based on what?

• anybody* can do FPA so long as they have the cash and race licence (nat B I believe?)

Ahhh, but i dont have a natB, but If i had far too much money, I could have a T125

[Scuffers]

nsmith1180 said:

Scuffers said:

Twincam16 said:

Thing is, in order to do 9 seasons in Formula Palmer Audi, you've got to be a pretty good racing driver as it is.

based on what?

• anybody* can do FPA so long as they have the cash and race licence (nat B I believe?)

Ahhh, but i dont have a natB, but If i had far too much money, I could have a T125

I would suggest that if your incapable of getting a Nat B licence, then you have no place in a single seater *anything*

let's be honest here, even if this T125 is level with an F1 car, 99.99% of the population would simply not be able to drive it anything like compendantly/safely, so unless you have some kind of deathwish, I would suggest that said people would start at a lower level and work up to it.

[RobM77]

Twincam16 said:

Scuffers said:

Twincam16 said:

Thing is, in order to do 9 seasons in Formula Palmer Audi, you've got to be a pretty good racing driver as it is.

based on what?

• anybody* can do FPA so long as they have the cash and race licence (nat B I believe?)

But surely it'd get a bit demoralising constantly being beaten by people destined for better things? And when all's said and done, it's still not an F1 car.

It's also quite nice to drive something with a bit of history.

What you say above though is the crux of it and at the heart of the T125/F1 decision (nice decision to have to make!!). Being a competitive person, I want to pitch myself against the best opposition I can find. Part of the attraction of racing in FPA or F3 (not that I ever will) would be to race against professional level drivers. Provided I had as much testing as them, it's a fair battle. I'd rather lose racing against a top F3 driver than win racing against an average club driver.

[nsmith1180]

Scuffers said:

nsmith1180 said:

Scuffers said:

Twincam16 said:

Thing is, in order to do 9 seasons in Formula Palmer Audi, you've got to be a pretty good racing driver as it is.

based on what?

• anybody* can do FPA so long as they have the cash and race licence (nat B I believe?)

Ahhh, but i dont have a natB, but If i had far too much money, I could have a T125

I would suggest that if your incapable of getting a Nat B licence, then you have no place in a single seater *anything*

let's be honest here, even if this T125 is level with an F1 car, 99.99% of the population would simply not be able to drive it anything like compendantly/safely, so unless you have some kind of deathwish, I would suggest that said people would start at a lower level and work up to it.

I see your point, but its not a lack of ability to obtain a NatB, (as far as I know) its a lack of funding and time.

[Scuffers]

nsmith1180 said:

I see your point, but its not a lack of ability to obtain a NatB, (as far as I know) its a lack of funding and time.

so you can afford a $1M car but not the couple of hundred to get a licence?

[RobM77]

nsmith1180 said:

Scuffers said:

nsmith1180 said:

Scuffers said:

Twincam16 said:

Thing is, in order to do 9 seasons in Formula Palmer Audi, you've got to be a pretty good racing driver as it is.

based on what?

• anybody* can do FPA so long as they have the cash and race licence (nat B I believe?)

Ahhh, but i dont have a natB, but If i had far too much money, I could have a T125

I would suggest that if your incapable of getting a Nat B licence, then you have no place in a single seater *anything*

let's be honest here, even if this T125 is level with an F1 car, 99.99% of the population would simply not be able to drive it anything like compendantly/safely, so unless you have some kind of deathwish, I would suggest that said people would start at a lower level and work up to it.

I see your point, but its not a lack of ability to obtain a NatB, (as far as I know) its a lack of funding and time.

The National B license only takes a few hours and costs a few hundred quid. When I did it back in November 2000, it was about 4 hours and £159. The only weird and obstructive thing about the Nat B was the MSA wouldn't post a "Go Racing" pack to me, I had to drive over there to get it

The Nat B is not really training though, and I wouldn't recommend anyone went straight from a Nat B to racing a single seater, even a Formula Ford (which incidentally will see off most supercars around a race track... indeed all the supercars I've ever seen timed). I'd recommend a bit or karting, a track day and a little coaching first.

[nsmith1180]

Scuffers said:

nsmith1180 said:

I see your point, but its not a lack of ability to obtain a NatB, (as far as I know) its a lack of funding and time.

so you can afford a $1M car but not the couple of hundred to get a licence?

No:

Me said:

Ahhh, but i dont have a natB, but If i had far too much money, I could have a T125

I dont say i have the money.

[srce]

Scuffers said:

let's be honest here, even if this T125 is level with an F1 car, 99.99% of the population would simply not be able to drive it anything like compendantly/safely, so unless you have some kind of deathwish, I would suggest that said people would start at a lower level and work up to it.

Isn't this the part of the point of the Exos program? You aren't just buying the car, but you are buying training too (driving and physical etc).

I don't see why driving a single seater has to be that hard anyway - plenty of people with no track experience jump in a Formula Jag. Obviously this is twice as powerful, but they could quite easily set the limiter to 4k to begin with, etc.

Edited by srce on Wednesday 11th August 20:15